02-14-2014, 07:41 PM | #1 |
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Turbo lag in M3 vs M5
I have done the search before anyone asks and couldn't find anything concrete. I'd love someone like swamp or Boss to explain this. Basically I'm wondering if there is anything different between the M3 and M5 in terms of turbo design and how it impacts the turbo lag. Will the M3's engine be better optimized and feel less lag? From the sounds of it, M3 has more advanced turbo than M5, that being said, when I drove the M5, there was absolutely no lag to me. I just didn't feel it. With that in mind, if M3 is going to be better, that's just amazing.
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02-14-2014, 09:32 PM | #2 | |
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Not trying to make a direct comparison to the F80/F82 but just curious.
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02-14-2014, 10:40 PM | #4 | |
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02-14-2014, 11:02 PM | #5 | |
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But if you are talking about the F10 M5, it has lots of lag. Very noticable lag. Put it in manual mode, get it to 3000 rpm, accelerating slowly, then punch it. It pulls, then it pulls harder, then it pulls even harder, and then it pulls even harder. That's turbo lag. |
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02-15-2014, 07:35 AM | #9 |
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Information > opinion. Thanks!
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02-15-2014, 08:02 AM | #10 | |
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As usual, great post. Very well summarized
I would just like to bring the following precision: Quote:
It is most likely what you implied, I just wanted to make it clear |
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02-15-2014, 08:57 AM | #11 |
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Very informative post, Boss. I don't remember reading about the CCM discussed in the context of firing order and crank design, so that was enlightening. I also did not realize that the anti-lag measures found in the S55 were in fact not new and already employed by the S63tu and 1M's N54.
Thinking about the OP's question regarding lag, I don't know if I've ever seen an in depth comparison between the S63tu and the N63tu. This would seem to be the best way to qualify what kind of improvement the CCM brings and how perceptible it is. Even better if it's the Alpina version which is tuned to nearly the same power as the S63tu. Also I wonder if the N63tu uses the Valvetronic anti-lag trick too? Regarding the S55, I think some of us expected either three twin scrolls or two triple scrolls. I certainly thought it was a good possibility. I suspect the added weight and complexity proved to be unnecessary for the power target and power delivery as you said. But I wonder if we'll see a setup like that on a future BMW I6. |
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02-15-2014, 09:08 AM | #12 |
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Boss for president!
Good read, thanks much for sharing with us |
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02-15-2014, 10:07 AM | #13 | |
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I thought about including the N55 twin scroll setup, but had other engagements so had to run. And as you said; The N55 uses not a pair of cylinders for each scroll/channel, but actually uses 3 cylinders for each scroll/channel in the turbo. Cyl 1-3 feeds one scroll and cyl 4-6 feeds the other scroll/channel. |
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02-15-2014, 10:34 AM | #15 | ||
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The N63Tu still employs std exhaust manifolds with no cross bank tubing and also single scroll turbos. Here is a test review from C&D: Quote:
http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/lib...U%20Engine.pdf A picture showing the std exhaust manifolds and single scroll turbo: |
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02-15-2014, 05:31 PM | #16 | ||
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Quote:
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02-15-2014, 06:22 PM | #18 |
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The track day I drove the B7 also included the M5 and M6s. No contest compared to the B7, the S63TU is 1000% better in terms of lag. Even the N63TU is better than the B7. The B7 pulls like a train when it gets going but the lag on off throttle is terrible. I had a passenger in the car during one stint with the B7 and we both laughed at it. I pushed the throttle at the apex and we looked at each other and counted 1.2.3 wooooosh. It's that bad. But then, it's likely not an issue for the driving style of people who actually buy these cars. The S63TU sure has plenty lag compared to for example the S65 but it's not bad for a turbo car, not bad at all.
Last edited by solstice; 02-15-2014 at 06:37 PM.. |
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02-15-2014, 10:20 PM | #19 |
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Good info solstice, thanks. So the message is that BMW's anti-lag measures are definitely no joke. Hopefully the S55 is much closer to the S63tu in terms of lag than say a 335i or a B3, which I imagine it will be.
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02-15-2014, 10:43 PM | #20 | |
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02-16-2014, 12:59 AM | #21 |
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02-16-2014, 03:59 AM | #22 | |
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On a different note, it seems RealStig is in good company when talking about the behaviour/response of the S63Tu... Perhaps you should let Chris Harris know he has poor "driving analytical skills" |
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