Tire Cost Analysis...am I really saving?

[bigjae1976]

Some of us are budget HPDE'ers and I thought this would be an interesting discussion on cost and how long your tires are lasting. I'd to see what everyone else's experience is. There are some new interesting tires I'm seeing like the Ventus TDs.

Moreso than track fees...the ass kicker for me are tire costs. As 1MOREMOD has pointed out in the past...its about saving money with me! Right! My process is I need to understand the tradeoffs with the lower cost option. Lower price isn't always lower cost. Especially when it comes to TIRES! I can get R6s but that means less track time. I could also sell my E90 M3...but I'm not ready for that. My trade off is grip (doesn't always = faster lap times) for longevity in most cases. But I don't want to be driving on all seasons either. So here is what I had come up with that led me to my decision.

My cost analysis for NT01s is that the 275/35R18s are about $1075 shipped a set. Plus mount and balance plus a flip and mount and balance. Some tire rotation but that's no cost. So for about 4 weekends, your tire cost is about $1300ish so $325 a weekend.

Compared to scrubs which might last 2 weekends. So you'll need 2 sets. At $100 ea tire, that's $1000 shipped plus mount and balance twice. So for about 4 weekends, your tire cost is about $1200ish so $300 a weekend. The BIG X-factor is will your scrubs actually last 2 weekends? That will vary...

BUT...I run the 275/40R17 NT01s which are $875 shipped from Performance Tread.com. So my total cost is $1100. My tire cost is about $275 a weekend with no detectable performance loss. I sold my ARC8 18s (I had a useless 5th spare wheel) for the same price as I bought the ARC8 17s.

I will save $200 per set of tires (about 2-3 sets per year) going with the 17s. The BAD part is tire selection is not as good compared to 275/18s. Even worse, I now live near a guy who sells pretty good scrubs which are hard to find in 17s.

For NT01s, I'm seeing a range of 7-9 days for an advanced driver. For scrubs, I've personally gotten about 3 days and I see some people getting 4-6 days. When I ran RS3s, I'd see similar tire life on my E46 compared to the NT01s. I got 3-4 days on my E90 M3. I'm curious about tires like BFG R1s...how long are they lasting???

[surlynkid]

Stop drifting through the turns and they will last longer.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by surlynkid

Stop drifting through the turns and they will last longer.

Although oversteer does accelerate wear actually its understeer that kills tires a lot faster. Your just scrubbing the tires across the pavement. Oversteer you're scrubbing the rear tires but they are still rotating at a good speed.

[track_warrior]

I just gave a set of 265/35/18 Federal 595 RS-R tires a try and here is my opinion and what happened to them they were cheap though:



I bought a set of Federal 595-RSR in 265/35/18 since i found them for a bargain and figured if they were good i would keep using them for light track use since im a member at my local track and can pretty much track for as long and hard as i want. Federal does not make a 275/35/18 so i had to stick to 265. When the tires came in the first thing that surprised me was how wide of a 265 it was, it was as wide as my nt-01's in 275. I took them out on the track and found the perfect hot psi to be 37F 38R since if i went higher they would break loose easier and if i went lower sidewall flex was a problem. After 5 consecutive laps these tires would start overheating and grip level was lost, i found the best laps to be 1-3 then they were pretty much caca. When i got home i noticed one of my tires was splicing and immediately emailed my tire seller which they responded that federal said it was normal as long as it was not very deep and i should rotate them to keep that from happening. I listened and ran them for another session and they seem to be doing fine, the splice has not been spreading or getting worse. For 600 Shipped you cant beat them, they provide a little less grip than rs3's and they take the heat a bit worse but for my regular club member days i will keep running them since they are dirt cheap. For organised track days i will run NT-01'S, R-888'S, or BF R1'S. Dont know if any of you are familiar with harris hill raceway in texas but they managed a 1:27.1 on a car that just has pads, lines, fluid, kw clubsports, and a axel back exhaust. Will be posting a full review on these soon.






Harris hill road:


Other members times in m3's, the times on the FR-'s are mine:

[aus]

That's not a deep splice?
I have no idea what's considered deep for tire splice.

.

[Sebringjetta]

After Looking At What I Spend Now Thanks To Your Break Down Im Going To Go Cut My Wrists...thank You Lmao

[TXmtrhed]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

For NT01s, I'm seeing a range of 7-9 days for an advanced driver. For scrubs, I've personally gotten about 3 days and I see some people getting 4-6 days. When I ran RS3s, I'd see similar tire life on my E46 compared to the NT01s. I got 3-4 days on my E90 M3. I'm curious about tires like BFG R1s...how long are they lasting???

Jae, I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've gotten 14 track days so far from my RS3's. I'm just reaching half tread depth.

You're making me feel slow.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

Jae, I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've gotten 14 track days so far from my RS3's. I'm just reaching half tread depth.

You're making me feel slow.

was thinking the same thing

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

Jae, I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've gotten 14 track days so far from my RS3's. I'm just reaching half tread depth.

You're making me feel slow.

Actually, I did get 7 weekends plus street driving out of some RS3s on the 330. I some for my E90 based on that and they didn't last long at all. I think instead of getting greasy the tread starts to wear really fast. I also believe the RS3s don't like a really heavy car.

But yeah, you're driving slow

EDIT:

Two things were working against the tires.

First, I ran pretty low pressures. Usually about 33-35psi hot when I did take pressures. I think running 36-38psi hot would have helped with tire life but I'm really too busy to deal with it. I'm usually coming off track, jumping into another car or jumping out of another car into my car onto the track.

Second, I have 17x9.5 et35 wheels on my E46M3 at all corners. I run 12mm spacers in front to clear the brakes and none in the rear. My car tends to understeer and scrub the tires a bit. Then I slide the car quite a bit. So I'm really not being easy on any corner of the car.

So my guess is I could have gotten another half or full day out of these

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

For NT01s, I'm seeing a range of 7-9 days for an advanced driver. For scrubs, I've personally gotten about 3 days and I see some people getting 4-6 days. When I ran RS3s, I'd see similar tire life on my E46 compared to the NT01s. I got 3-4 days on my E90 M3. I'm curious about tires like BFG R1s...how long are they lasting???

I have the same questions so I'm just going to buy a set of the Kumho C51 slicks next tire set, and see for myself.

[ki__]

Good thread. It'll be great to see what some other people do for track savings with their tires.

[chili cheese]

I'm running NT01s 275/35/18 square. I usually get about 10 days out of them.

Best prices I usually see are on discounttiredirect.com. Right now, with the $40 rebate they are offering, you can have a set of 4 shipped to your door for $1004. I have seen them a little lower there as well.

I pay $100 each time to mount and then flip/mount, so call it $200 for the life of the set of 4.

$1,204 / 10 days (or 5 weekends) = $241/weekend

[chili cheese]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

.........Moreso than track fees...the ass kicker for me are tire costs.......

Not so for me. In many cases, I find that my track fees are more than I pay in tires and pads on a per track day/per weekend basis. I pay around $200/day for track fees, or $400/weekend.

Man, I hate to even start adding all of this stuff up!

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by chili cheese

Not so for me. In many cases, I find that my track fees are more than I pay in tires and pads on a per track day/per weekend basis. I pay around $200/day for track fees, or $400/weekend.

Man, I hate to even start adding all of this stuff up!

Which group charges $400 a weekend? Most should charge around $250-$300 per weekend for Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla, and Willow Springs (CA Speedway might be more).

Don't forget the fuel cost. I go through about 1.5 tank fulls just driving to/from the track and then 1 tank full for each day so that's about 4 tank fulls for a weekend.

[arter]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Which group charges $400 a weekend? Most should charge around $250-$300 per weekend for Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla, and Willow Springs (CA Speedway might be more).

Don't forget the fuel cost. I go through about 1.5 tank fulls just driving to/from the track and then 1 tank full for each day so that's about 4 tank fulls for a weekend.

Out east, the BMW and PCA clubs cost $ 400-450 a weekend and the other groups $ 550 or more.

But our tracks have trees and landscaping included.....

[ThunderMoose]

First rule of track club - we never ever add up the costs for fees, tires, brake pads, rotors, gasoline, hotel rooms, meals, etc. If your wife or anyone else asks, the only number you ever report is the track fee.

[chili cheese]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Which group charges $400 a weekend? Most should charge around $250-$300 per weekend for Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla, and Willow Springs (CA Speedway might be more).

Don't forget the fuel cost. I go through about 1.5 tank fulls just driving to/from the track and then 1 tank full for each day so that's about 4 tank fulls for a weekend.

Originally Posted by arter

Out east, the BMW and PCA clubs cost $ 400-450 a weekend and the other groups $ 550 or more.

But our tracks have trees and landscaping included.....

Speed Ventures is in the $200 range per day. The club events with instruction go up from there.

I'll take grass with no walls, but you can keep any trees that line the track.

I was wanting to forget the fuel cost! Even the closest track to me (AAA Speedway, requires 3 tanks of fuel to get there/back and do 2 track days....yikes.

[chili cheese]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

First rule of track club - we never ever add up the costs for fees, tires, brake pads, rotors, gasoline, hotel rooms, meals, etc. If your wife or anyone else asks, the only number you ever report is the track fee.

Well said.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

First rule of track club - we never ever add up the costs for fees, tires, brake pads, rotors, gasoline, hotel rooms, meals, etc. If your wife or anyone else asks, the only number you ever report is the track fee.

Nice...I'm talking hypotheticals though!

[will.c]

Are you getting even wear across the tire width? Or are you throwing them out b/c shoulders are down to cords? Or heat cycle?

My question is - everything else being equal, would 17s present more shoulder wear due to tire rollover compared to 18s?

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by arter

Out east, the BMW and PCA clubs cost $ 400-450 a weekend and the other groups $ 550 or more.

But our tracks have trees and landscaping included.....

I'll take dirt/desert runoff over infinite walls and trees lining the tracks...that's what gets your car totaled if you have an "oh sh!t" moment versus the car just getting dirty.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

First rule of track club - we never ever add up the costs for fees, tires, brake pads, rotors, gasoline, hotel rooms, meals, etc. If your wife or anyone else asks, the only number you ever report is the track fee.

+1 Track mods are also excluded from the calculation.