Thinking about upgrading to bucket type seats...

[MDIAU]

For my e92. My concern is since the seats cannot fold forward could i still fit my baby recaro seat in the back and easily get access for dd? My wife thinks it won't work because seat doesn't fold. Does anyone with infant/toddler baby seat have any issues getting in/out? Thanks

[FormulaMMM]

How about --

http://www.europeanautosource.com/pr...rtster-cs-seat



Bucket shouldn't influence your ability to get a baby seat in the back, but it's going to get old sliding it back and forth, imo.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Those seats looks sweet...comfortable and keep you planted. Will they allow the use of a 6-point harness?

[FormulaMMM]

4 point I think. Combine with Challenge harness bar for max shred.

[pkimM3r]

i was just wondering, does a harness bar do more detriment than not having one in a crash?

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

4 point I think. Combine with Challenge harness bar for max shred.

4/5 point harnesses can be dangerous...it's either the regular seatbelt or 6 point harness for me.

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

i was just wondering, does a harness bar do more detriment than not having one in a crash?

Fixed back seats are essential if you're going to use harnesses. And if you're going to have harnesses you should at least have a half cage.

Safety systems are deigned to work as just that, systems. Part measures aren't safe.

Since you want to use the back seats a cage is out.

If you want to be more planted a folding bucket like the Recaro Sportster is a great option.

But please skip the harness bar. If you want harnesses do it right. But harnesses are for the track not the street. Harnesses on the street are for show. And if you're driving hard and fast enough on the street to need harnesses than shame on you.

[AWM3ME2]

I had fixed back seats and had them removed within one month. I now have Recaro CS's and could not be happier.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by dmw16

Fixed back seats are essential if you're going to use harnesses. And if you're going to have harnesses you should at least have a half cage.

Safety systems are deigned to work as just that, systems. Part measures aren't safe.

Since you want to use the back seats a cage is out.

If you want to be more planted a folding bucket like the Recaro Sportster is a great option.

But please skip the harness bar. If you want harnesses do it right. But harnesses are for the track not the street. Harnesses on the street are for show. And if you're driving hard and fast enough on the street to need harnesses than shame on you.

If you can't/won't go the cage route, why skip the harness bar for track?

Sparco, G-Force, Simpson, etc. All of their 4 pt harnesses are unsafe? For example http://www.sparcousa.com/product/4pt-belt (FIA approved). Believe NASA is allowing 4 point.

I'd like to think sportster cs + bar + 4 pt harnesses would be a viable solution for sliding around on stock seats, but not able to do a cage. (Assuming the structural integrity, sufficient strength of the harness bar.) What am I missing

[pkimM3r]

I think 4 point is allowed for autox. But if you get in a crash at a track uhoh. I think the person at chuckwalla was in a 4 point and his gf submarined and passed away. If you are basically going to be glued in your seat you need the car to not crush you hence cage. Thats what im thinking at least using common sense.

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

If you can't/won't go the cage route, why skip the harness bar for track?

Sparco, G-Force, Simpson, etc. All of their 4 pt harnesses are unsafe? For example http://www.sparcousa.com/product/4pt-belt (FIA approved). Believe NASA is allowing 4 point.

I'd like to think sportster cs + bar + 4 pt harnesses would be a viable solution for sliding around on stock seats, but not able to do a cage. (Assuming the structural integrity, sufficient strength of the harness bar.) What am I missing

Sorry, I should have better explained.

The issue isn't the 4 point belts. There are FIA approved 4 points that have anti-submarine features that should prevent you from sliding under the belts.

The concerns I would have are two:

1. If you are in a roll over crash the harnesses keep your body from rolling away from the deforming roof as you would in a 3 point setup. Hopefully the seat would crumple enough to prevent your spine from compressing, but hopefully and spine compression aren't really great words to have in a sentence together.

2. If you have a rear impact and the seat back of a folding bucket were to give out you run the risk of hitting your head on the harness bar. This is part of the reason that a cage and reclining seats are a bad choice as well.

Of the above two concerns, #1 would scare me a lot more. But #2 is dangerous as well.

Something being FIA approved is great, but you need to dig further into how the FIA testing as done. Was it done with a folding seat or fixed back? Was there a cage or a bar? Was there a net, a halo seat, etc?

All of these safety devices are meant to work as a system and putting just one piece on the car and assuming since it's FIA certified you're ready to rock is a bad one to make.

We all assume some risk in taking our car onto the track, but if you feel like you're fast enough to need actual harnesses and race seats then I think you're at the point of being ready for a cage.

Now, having said all of that, I will say this really (to me) applies to track driving. Auto-X I'd feel pretty comfortable with fixed seats and a bar and (probably) quality reclining seats and a bar. I say this because I think the likelihood of a roll over is very low and there are no other cars or walls to hit.

As I said above, if you're buying this kind of gear for the street because you think you need it you are driving too fast on the street (and probably aren't even nearly as good as you think you are) and should be ashamed of yourself.

If you're looking for another option, consider the Schroth Quick-Fit harnesses. I think they are out or just about to come out for the E92. I had them in my E46 and they did a great job of keeping you planted in your seat. They are a great option for a weekend car that needs to haul the family around during the week.

However, check with the group(s) you run with and the local laws. I was told by NJ BMW CCA and DelVal BMW CCA (my local groups) that they aren't thrilled by them and are not allowed in New Jersey. So rather than risk the displeasure of a great group of folks that run great events and/or getting hassled by the state troopers that like to prowl around NJMP I got rid of mine. But they were great. So it's worth considering.

Sorry this turned into a local soap-box speech about this stuff. It's just something I've done a lot of soul-searching on and have formed strong opinions on.

Stay safe.

-Doug

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by dmw16

Sorry, I should have better explained.

The issue isn't the 4 point belts. There are FIA approved 4 points that have anti-submarine features that should prevent you from sliding under the belts.

The concerns I would have are two:

1. If you are in a roll over crash the harnesses keep your body from rolling away from the deforming roof as you would in a 3 point setup. Hopefully the seat would crumple enough to prevent your spine from compressing, but hopefully and spine compression aren't really great words to have in a sentence together.

2. If you have a rear impact and the seat back of a folding bucket were to give out you run the risk of hitting your head on the harness bar. This is part of the reason that a cage and reclining seats are a bad choice as well.

Of the above two concerns, #1 would scare me a lot more. But #2 is dangerous as well.

Something being FIA approved is great, but you need to dig further into how the FIA testing as done. Was it done with a folding seat or fixed back? Was there a cage or a bar? Was there a net, a halo seat, etc?

All of these safety devices are meant to work as a system and putting just one piece on the car and assuming since it's FIA certified you're ready to rock is a bad one to make.

We all assume some risk in taking our car onto the track, but if you feel like you're fast enough to need actual harnesses and race seats then I think you're at the point of being ready for a cage.

Now, having said all of that, I will say this really (to me) applies to track driving. Auto-X I'd feel pretty comfortable with fixed seats and a bar and (probably) quality reclining seats and a bar. I say this because I think the likelihood of a roll over is very low and there are no other cars or walls to hit.

As I said above, if you're buying this kind of gear for the street because you think you need it you are driving too fast on the street (and probably aren't even nearly as good as you think you are) and should be ashamed of yourself.

If you're looking for another option, consider the Schroth Quick-Fit harnesses. I think they are out or just about to come out for the E92. I had them in my E46 and they did a great job of keeping you planted in your seat. They are a great option for a weekend car that needs to haul the family around during the week.

However, check with the group(s) you run with and the local laws. I was told by NJ BMW CCA and DelVal BMW CCA (my local groups) that they aren't thrilled by them and are not allowed in New Jersey. So rather than risk the displeasure of a great group of folks that run great events and/or getting hassled by the state troopers that like to prowl around NJMP I got rid of mine. But they were great. So it's worth considering.

Sorry this turned into a local soap-box speech about this stuff. It's just something I've done a lot of soul-searching on and have formed strong opinions on.

Stay safe.

-Doug

No soapbox perceived Doug. Appreciate all of the thoughts and those are legitimate concerns. I'll have a look at the quick fits.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

I think 4 point is allowed for autox. But if you get in a crash at a track uhoh. I think the person at chuckwalla was in a 4 point and his gf submarined and passed away. If you are basically going to be glued in your seat you need the car to not crush you hence cage. Thats what im thinking at least using common sense.

Most people adjust the 4pts incorrectly. You need to get the lap belt tight before you adjust the shoulder straps.

But BMW owners are lucky since we have a DOT tested 4pt harness option that you can remove.

Fixed back seat? Baby? No way in hell you can get a baby seat back there. If you could it would be such a massive PIA.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

But BMW owners are lucky since we have a DOT tested 4pt harness option that you can remove.

Referring to the Schroth?

[bigjae1976]

Yes ...lets keep this on topic. Many past schroth 4pt harness threads have gone in the toilet pretty quick

[dex37]

I've also wanted Recaro Pole Position for quite a long time, but my problem is that I want to be able to use the back seat. If this is the case, than just forget it. There is just no wise solution for the problem. You might be able to put the child in the seat, but in case of bad crash, where your B-Pillar get crushed, I wouldn't want my child to be seating in the back. In situations like that sometimes it is only matter of seconds before the worst happens.

My solution is Schroth Quick Fit (Pro). As bigjae1976 said, you only have to adjust the lap belt correctly. The Recaro Sportster CS are a waste of money for me, because they are not lighter, they don't offer much more support than stock seats and you still sit too high.

My conclusion is, that if you want bucket seats, you have to forget about the back seat.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yes ...lets keep this on topic. Many past schroth 4pt harness threads have gone in the toilet pretty quick

Lacking unanimous support on m3post? Hard to fathom.

[MDIAU]

Thanks for all that replied. Definitely something to think about. Perhaps now isn't the right time to buy fixed seats :T

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Lacking unanimous support on m3post? Hard to fathom.

More of a humor thing vs an argument.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by dex37

I've also wanted Recaro Pole Position for quite a long time, but my problem is that I want to be able to use the back seat. If this is the case, than just forget it. There is just no wise solution for the problem. You might be able to put the child in the seat, but in case of bad crash, where your B-Pillar get crushed, I wouldn't want my child to be seating in the back. In situations like that sometimes it is only matter of seconds between the worst happens.

My solution is Schroth Quick Fit (Pro). As bigjae1976 said, you only have to adjust the lap belt correctly. The Recaro Sportster CS are a waste of money for me, because they are not lighter, the don't offer much more support than stock seats and you still sit too high.

My conclusion is, that if you want bucket seats, you have to forget about the back seat.

The sportster cs are the same as the oem performance less airbags correct? Ive sat in them and for me they do sit much lower but youre right they dont offer much support since they do not hug me in the seat - the bolsters are not adjustable neither correct? Its like wearing an xl for me when i actually wear a m.

[dex37]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

The sportster cs are the same as the oem performance less airbags correct? Ive sat in them and for me they do sit much lower but youre right they dont offer much support since they do not hug me in the seat - the bolsters are not adjustable neither correct? Its like wearing an xl for me when i actually wear a m.

I'm not sure if the Sportster CS can be ordered with side airbags. The BMW Performance seats have it as an option. I've sat only in the Performance seats and I didn't find them much lower than stock. Or at least not low enough to give me enough head space with helmet. The bolsters are not adjustable, that's right. Apart from looking good, they don't offer any performance benefits. OK, racing look gives you at least 7hp more.

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by dex37

I'm not sure if the Sportster CS can be ordered with side airbags. The BMW Performance seats have it as an option. I've sat only in the Performance seats and I didn't find them much lower than stock. Or at least not low enough to give me enough head space with helmet. The bolsters are not adjustable, that's right. Apart from looking good, they don't offer any performance benefits. OK, racing look gives you at least 7hp more.

I considered the Sporter CS for my E46 to gain headroom, but unless you are ready for real race seats, the only way to get headroom is to pull the sunroof out. I just finished doing this, but it's a lot easier to stomach in a 2005 E46 M3 then doing it to a 2013 E90 M3.