Gingerman lap vid, NT01 initial impressions

[FormulaMMM]

Fun day at Gingerman yesterday. Just picked up the Harry's Lap Timer, which worked flawlessly other than being off pretty significantly on the straight speeds on some laps.

This was my first time out with NT01s after RS3s. Read multiple reports that they're a faster tire, but times yesterday were dead even with RS3s. As far as feel -- believe I prefer the RS3s. The NT01s feel like a softer sidewall, with more lean, body roll, especially through the fast sweeper section of the track (1:00-1:10 in the video). I was running ~36 psi hot. I know they're a noticeably wider tire than the RS3 in 275 width. Taller, softer sidewall as well?

Gingerman typically has very reasonable early/late season rental rates. I rented earlier this spring and ran open track all day with 5 guys total. If you're in the Midwest and might be interested in something this fall/next spring, chime in here. Fun track!

[klammer]

Looks like an awesome day and you were tearing it up out there as usual interesting to hear about the NT01's, as I just ordered a set of AD08R's to be installed on Monday, so will see how that goes. Love to get back out there with you so keep the invites coming. Great track, great peeps, great times. Hopefully, cya out there before the year ends

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by klammer

Looks like an awesome day and you were tearing it up out there as usual interesting to hear about the NT01's, as I just ordered a set of AD08R's to be installed on Monday, so will see how that goes. Love to get back out there with you so keep the invites coming. Great track, great peeps, great times. Hopefully, cya out there before the year ends

Thanks man and will do.

I like the sounds of those! http://global.yokohamatire.net/produ...ova_ad08r.html

[OC3]

What was the ambient temp?

Try ~34 psi hot next time, and may be even 33.

[larryn]

I'm 3+ seconds quicker on NT-01s than AD-08s. Give them a chance, you need to drive them differently,and as mentioned, try 34lbs. That's what I run hot.

I have track envy, of having your own track day. Baller!! ;-)

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by OC3

What was the ambient temp?

Try ~34 psi hot next time, and may be even 33.

60 F, and will do.

Originally Posted by larryn

I'm 3+ seconds quicker on NT-01s than AD-08s. Give them a chance, you need to drive them differently,and as mentioned, try 34lbs. That's what I run hot.

I have track envy, of having your own track day. Baller!! ;-)

Thanks for the tip Larry. Sounds more baller than it was.. Didn't cost me or the others any more than a typical DE!

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Fun day at Gingerman yesterday. Just picked up the Harry's Lap Timer, which worked flawlessly other than being off pretty significantly on the straight speeds on some laps.

This was my first time out with NT01s after RS3s. Read multiple reports that they're a faster tire, but times yesterday were dead even with RS3s. As far as feel -- believe I prefer the RS3s. The NT01s feel like a softer sidewall, with more lean, body roll, especially through the fast sweeper section of the track (1:00-1:10 in the video). I was running ~36 psi hot. I know they're a noticeably wider tire than the RS3 in 275 width. Taller, softer sidewall as well?

Gingerman typically has very reasonable early/late season rental rates. I rented earlier this spring and ran open track all day with 5 guys total. If you're in the Midwest and might be interested in something this fall/next spring, chime in here. Fun track!

Originally Posted by OC3

What was the ambient temp?

Try ~34 psi hot next time, and may be even 33.

Originally Posted by larryn

I'm 3+ seconds quicker on NT-01s than AD-08s. Give them a chance, you need to drive them differently,and as mentioned, try 34lbs. That's what I run hot.

I have track envy, of having your own track day. Baller!! ;-)

Thanks for posting. Gingerman is where C/D tests all the time, isn't it? Looks like an interesting track layout--nice balance of left and right turns, as opposed to the typical clockwise right-turn dominant tracks.

The NT01s are great tires. Like the others said, give them a chance. First time out when brand-new, they're greasy, wobbly and horrible. Then after a couple of sessions they get better, and then continue to get better and better until they cord. Just don't run them in the wet once the tread wears down.

Interesting that so many people are running them 33-35 psi hot. I typically ran them at 38-39 psi hot. Thought this was the target pressure, given that we have relatively heavy cars. 38-39 worked well for me throughout three sets of NT01s, and gave me fairly even wear across the tread surface, but maybe if I had run them in the mid-30s they would have been even better. Although, again, if subjectively you felt that they were "soft" and rolled over a bit, the answer would be higher pressures to cure this, not lower, right?

Was that an old GT350 out there with you? Must have been fantastically loud and stinky!

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

The NT01s are great tires. Like the others said, give them a chance. First time out when brand-new, they're greasy, wobbly and horrible. Then after a couple of sessions they get better, and then continue to get better and better until they cord. Just don't run them in the wet once the tread wears down.

Interesting that so many people are running them 33-35 psi hot. I typically ran them at 38-39 psi hot. Thought this was the target pressure, given that we have relatively heavy cars. 38-39 worked well for me throughout three sets of NT01s, and gave me fairly even wear across the tread surface, but maybe if I had run them in the mid-30s they would have been even better. Although, again, if subjectively you felt that they were "soft" and rolled over a bit, the answer would be higher pressures to cure this, not lower, right?

Spot on. I really liked my NT01s (switched after the tread splice issue) and yes, they are a little greasy until they are scuffed up a bit, then they're great. I set my fastest lap ever at VIR on a badly corded NT front tire!

I tend to run my temps higher too--30 cold gives me about 38-39 hot. Anything lower feels like the side walls are too soft and roll over.

I'm running BFG R1s now (and like them a lot) but you will get a lot more track days out of the NT01s.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Quick slightly off topic question....I need to drive home on NT01s for about 350 miles. What cold and hot PSI should I be driving them on the highway going 70-90mph?

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

Thanks for posting. Gingerman is where C/D tests all the time, isn't it? Looks like an interesting track layout--nice balance of left and right turns, as opposed to the typical clockwise right-turn dominant tracks.

The NT01s are great tires. Like the others said, give them a chance. First time out when brand-new, they're greasy, wobbly and horrible. Then after a couple of sessions they get better, and then continue to get better and better until they cord. Just don't run them in the wet once the tread wears down.

Interesting that so many people are running them 33-35 psi hot. I typically ran them at 38-39 psi hot. Thought this was the target pressure, given that we have relatively heavy cars. 38-39 worked well for me throughout three sets of NT01s, and gave me fairly even wear across the tread surface, but maybe if I had run them in the mid-30s they would have been even better. Although, again, if subjectively you felt that they were "soft" and rolled over a bit, the answer would be higher pressures to cure this, not lower, right?

Was that an old GT350 out there with you? Must have been fantastically loud and stinky!

Yep, C&D, Automobile and some others test there as well. Good variety of left & right corners, healthy back straight, run off almost everywhere.

Ok, I look forward to the NT01s getting better then! Wobbly is exactly how I would describe them. I guess I'll be experimenting with pressures, but yes, I was sensing too much roll so an increase makes sense.

I'm not sure what model Mustang. Lots of loud and stinky older cars out on Friday -- Mustangs, Firebirds, Minis, a Scirocco. I admire those guys. Looks like nonstop work though.

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Spot on. I really liked my NT01s (switched after the tread splice issue) and yes, they are a little greasy until they are scuffed up a bit, then they're great. I set my fastest lap ever at VIR on a badly corded NT front tire!

I tend to run my temps higher too--30 cold gives me about 38-39 hot. Anything lower feels like the side walls are too soft and roll over.

I'm running BFG R1s now (and like them a lot) but you will get a lot more track days out of the NT01s.

Cool. Thanks for the thoughts. Wobble and roll is what I was feeling @ 36.

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

Quick slightly off topic question....I need to drive home on NT01s for about 350 miles. What cold and hot PSI should I be driving them on the highway going 70-90mph?

Haven't done that with NT01s, but made a 180 mile trip home with RS3s many times. I'd wait for the tires to cool down (reach "cold" temp) and then inflate to ~36. So cold pressure at 35-36. You're not really reaching a "hot" psi on the highway.

90 mph speed limits in socal?

[bigjae1976]

Yeah, you need to scrub them in on the street first a day or two for new NT01s otherwise...its can be a wild ride. I wouldn't call it a heat cycle technically but...its heat cycling the tire and getting all the crap off the tread.

The car WILL roll a lot more because you have more grip given all else is equal.

Have you fallen in love with the gentle coo'ing sounds they make? I love it that!

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yeah, you need to scrub them in on the street first a day or two for new NT01s otherwise...its can be a wild ride. I wouldn't call it a heat cycle technically but...its heat cycling the tire and getting all the crap off the tread.

The car WILL roll a lot more because you have more grip given all else is equal.

Have you fallen in love with the gentle coo'ing sounds they make? I love it that!

That's funny.. I was wondering what the hell that sound was. Good to know it's typical. I actually pulled into the paddock mid-session when I heard the noise. First thought was this isn't normal, second thought was the tread splice issue.

Really didn't feel like more body roll. Very focused on the tires. Sidewall just felt squishy, wobbly, etc. I'll experiment with pressures and get some more sessions on them and see what happens.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

That's funny.. I was wondering what the hell that sound was. Good to know it's typical. I actually pulled into the paddock mid-session when I heard the noise. First thought was this isn't normal, second thought was the tread splice issue.

Really didn't feel like more body roll. Very focused on the tires. Sidewall just felt squishy, wobbly, etc. I'll experiment with pressures and get some more sessions on them and see what happens.

That NT01 tread noise is so characteristic--sounds like knobby tires on a 4x4 going down the highway. It's so characteristic that I've seen track videos on this forum with no prior knowledge of the car's particular setup and correctly id'd the tires as NT01s: "How do you like your NT01s?" "I like them a lot. Hey, wait, how did you know I was running on NT01s?"

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

That's funny.. I was wondering what the hell that sound was. Good to know it's typical. I actually pulled into the paddock mid-session when I heard the noise. First thought was this isn't normal, second thought was the tread splice issue.

Really didn't feel like more body roll. Very focused on the tires. Sidewall just felt squishy, wobbly, etc. I'll experiment with pressures and get some more sessions on them and see what happens.

I've found that NT01s really like about 34-35psi hot. But you definitely need to wear the tires down so the tread is gone. You won't realize how much better they are until you put on your next set of NT01s.

Originally Posted by paradocs98

That NT01 tread noise is so characteristic--sounds like knobby tires on a 4x4 going down the highway. It's so characteristic that I've seen track videos on this forum with no prior knowledge of the car's particular setup and correctly id'd the tires as NT01s: "How do you like your NT01s?" "I like them a lot. Hey, wait, how did you know I was running on NT01s?"

...and that's really what makes the NT01s awesome!

[pkimM3r]

Is that what that sound is? I thought it was some cool supercharger noise on deceleration noise.

Shows how much i know

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Haven't done that with NT01s, but made a 180 mile trip home with RS3s many times. I'd wait for the tires to cool down (reach "cold" temp) and then inflate to ~36. So cold pressure at 35-36. You're not really reaching a "hot" psi on the highway.

90 mph speed limits in socal?

Well, 90mph is the secret unposted speed limit for all those folks with V1s. The NT01s ran very nice with no problems at all on the drive back home.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yeah, you need to scrub them in on the street first a day or two for new NT01s otherwise...its can be a wild ride. I wouldn't call it a heat cycle technically but...its heat cycling the tire and getting all the crap off the tread.

The car WILL roll a lot more because you have more grip given all else is equal.

Have you fallen in love with the gentle coo'ing sounds they make? I love it that!

I drove on them when they were brand new for about 150 miles to the track and they were totally fine (dry, warm daylight conditions). Between my loud exhaust and cup car shift cables, I can't hear the tires.

[M3 Esq]

Bumping an old thread. I had my first day on NT01 at Lime Rock on Tuesday. I was previously running BFG Rivals. I had the NT01s heat cycled and did not scrub them in on the street. In the very first session, they were very wobbly and not confidence inspiring at all (as noted above), but to my dismay, I ran my fastest lap ever at LRP in my first session on the NT01s!

They got better as the day went on. In my second session I beat my first session time and put down even faster laps than the first session. It was very hot (low 90s) and very humid so I struggled with pressures most of the day, but they were great. I was aiming for 38 psi hot and that seemed to work ok, but after reading through some of these old threads maybe I should aim for 34-36 psi hot?

I did notice the cool sound they make, almost like an airplane is flying overhead. It was a little distracting at first and took some getting used to but overall I thought they were great. They also make a very low pitched howling sound under hard cornering (for example, I heard it most going from the left hander into the right hander, which is a quick left to right transition). Is the howling normal? I did find that if I waited a second and turned in later in minimized the sound a bit, but that seemed slower. I realize I need to learn to drive on these coming from street tires but any advice is much appreciated!

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by M3 Esq

I was aiming for 38 psi hot and that seemed to work ok, but after reading through some of these old threads maybe I should aim for 34-36 psi hot?

Yes, 38 is too high. 34-36 hot is right for these tires.

Originally Posted by M3 Esq

I did notice the cool sound they make, almost like an airplane is flying overhead. It was a little distracting at first and took some getting used to but overall I thought they were great. They also make a very low pitched howling sound under hard cornering (for example, I heard it most going from the left hander into the right hander, which is a quick left to right transition). Is the howling normal? I did find that if I waited a second and turned in later in minimized the sound a bit, but that seemed slower. I realize I need to learn to drive on these coming from street tires but any advice is much appreciated!

The droning sound should only happen at low speeds, it'll probably change as you wear them off a bit. The turning/howling sound is normal, that's the equivalent of a street tire's squeal. And they should be howling on big bend, left hander, uphill and downhill :-)

These tires do require a different driving pattern and do much better with a few degrees of slip angle and increased camber (compared to street tires)

glad you had fun at LRP

[GTB/ZR-1]

Kind of off-topic, but I may cave & get a track-only setup, instead of a set of streeties.

How are you guys transporting to the track. I have an E90 w/ the folding seats & tire totes. Good to go between trunk & back seat?

I *refuse* to break out my trailer... Lol

TIA & great review, OP.

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by mid-corner fun

Yes, 38 is too high. 34-36 hot is right for these tires.



The droning sound should only happen at low speeds, it'll probably change as you wear them off a bit. The turning/howling sound is normal, that's the equivalent of a street tire's squeal. And they should be howling on big bend, left hander, uphill and downhill :-)

These tires do require a different driving pattern and do much better with a few degrees of slip angle and increased camber (compared to street tires)

glad you had fun at LRP

I am getting -2.4 degrees negative camber up front with camber plates and stock zcp suspension. They were howling quite a bit in the righthander, the uphill, and the downhill. I am probably not driving fast enough yet to maximize slip angles but I am going to take my time and get used to them. They feel a lot different than my street tires. I guess I need to drive faster in big bend to get them howling more! Thanks for the input!

[M3 Esq]

Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1

Kind of off-topic, but I may cave & get a track-only setup, instead of a set of streeties.

How are you guys transporting to the track. I have an E90 w/ the folding seats & tire totes. Good to go between trunk & back seat?

I *refuse* to break out my trailer... Lol

TIA & great review, OP.

When I was tracking my E90 335i I can get all 4 tires in the back seat. You may have to move your front seats up a little bit but it can be done.

In my E92, I fit 3 wheels in the back seat, one in the trunk, along with my tool bag, 2 jacks, folding chairs, cooler, helmet, camera bag etc. You can do it, you just have to get creative with packing.

I also wash most of the brake dust off at the track before packing up. Just bring a small bucket and a brush along. Not sure if there is water at your track but there are two spigots at LRP.