Sand bags make a huge difference

[driftdriven]

Hey all,

So coming from a Subaru and into a BMW 135, winter was a scary thought. I bought snow tires and drive on the first snowfall and it was not good. I thought, "Crap how the hell am I supposed to get around?". So today I bought about 100lbs in sand bags and WOW what a difference! The traction is great and I could half throttle on the green light and not much slippage. I went to back roads where I was having trouble before and no problem.

So all of you who are like me GET SOME WEIGHT ON THE REAR WHEELS!

Later,

Have fun in the snow :thumbup:

[warmtoes]

Well, had my first snow encounter and I took your advice and put some weight in the back. One of my summer wheels. That's about 50lbs or so. I need more though.

Had to turn off all the electronic nanny's before I could get up my hill.

[Cooldaddygroove]

Vancouver this morning was a hoot in the 135i. I was raised in Winnipeg where "drifting" was every day driving for us.

Runflats still suck ass, but I wasn't about to run to the tire store with the throngs of others to buy snows. Just drove the MDX instead.

[1Ronnie]

So the 50/50 weight distribution doesn't always work in our favour huh?

I've left the 1er in the driveway most of this week, there's a slightly improved feeling of security driving my wife's SUV. Still hasn't been pretty out there on the roads.

[JC Jai]

where can you even BUY sandbags

[1for2]

You can get 60 lb sandbags (really long tubes) at your favorite home improvement center.

[ZIPNBYE]

Sand bags FTL. Sorry, but that's the worst thing you can do to a car with 50/50 weight distribution. While it may, arguably, work in a pickup, it's not the thing to do in a car. Sure, it may allow you to get moving a little easier, but most of the braking and all of the steering are done in the front, which is now lighter. Furthermore, if you do lose the back-end, it'll be that much harder to get it back.

Drive according to the conditions, with proper footwear, and drive within the limits of the car. It's not an AWD...and shouldn't be treated as such, unless you're of far-above average driving skill (ie: you're Finnish).

Ditch your placebo...

[tarrant]

I'm not finding any problems in the snow, with snow tires. After all the snowfall in Toronto last night, I played around in the back streets, and could barely get the tail of the car to pop out in a 90 degree turn!

I don't know how much is from the tires and how much is from the electronics, but it's very stable without any extra weight in the back ... I'd say a fair sight better than our FWD Prius with all-seasons. I was very surprised.

[Garduna]

I'll be dumping 2 bags of winter salt bags in the trunk. It worked on my dad's now retired s60, I'm sure it'll work for the 1er too.

[Lester]

Get a box or two of firelogs, they are also quite heavy and are a nice size to put in the trunk, plus you won't get sand in your trunk.

[driftdriven]

Originally Posted by ZIPNBYE

Sand bags FTL. Sorry, but that's the worst thing you can do to a car with 50/50 weight distribution. While it may, arguably, work in a pickup, it's not the thing to do in a car. Sure, it may allow you to get moving a little easier, but most of the braking and all of the steering are done in the front, which is now lighter. Furthermore, if you do lose the back-end, it'll be that much harder to get it back.

Drive according to the conditions, with proper footwear, and drive within the limits of the car. It's not an AWD...and shouldn't be treated as such, unless you're of far-above average driving skill (ie: you're Finnish).

Ditch your placebo...

So another words never have people in the car because it changes the 50/50 weight distribution???? Never drive the car otherwise I will have "extra" weight on the left side of the car and that would change my left turning capabilities??? It is just 100lbs in the rear to get some traction in areas where we have hills. I know in Aberta the hills are not half as steep as the ones here. Thanks for the ignorant comment

[vanbmw]

I was happy with my snow tires in the snow Wednesday. I did some screwing around with the traction control off and had some fun. I made it up a few hills no problem. I didn't go with any added weight but I did top up my gas so I had that added few pounds over the rear axle.

[ZIPNBYE]

Originally Posted by driftdriven

So another words never have people in the car because it changes the 50/50 weight distribution???? Never drive the car otherwise I will have "extra" weight on the left side of the car and that would change my left turning capabilities??? It is just 100lbs in the rear to get some traction in areas where we have hills. I know in Aberta the hills are not half as steep as the ones here. Thanks for the ignorant comment

People are within the wheelbase, sand bags are at the extreme end of the car, thus add to any pendulum effect that a loss of control will create. It's false traction and can contribute to a loss of control downhill too. Not ignorant...sand bags are and old-school and poor choice. Get some decent tires and you'll be fine.

[warmtoes]

Live in a place that actually has hills and then talk to me. And, the incline you have from the river up is smaller than what I have on my street.

[1Ronnie]

Hmmm, weight over the rear wheels is a pretty common suggestion to improve traction. And while there is an argument that in losing traction, the extra 100kg may flick the car around harder, I would suggest that an extra 100kg of downforce will increase the traction more, than it will add to the momentum of the car in a spin. This in turn reduces risk by preventing the spin in the first place.

Additionally the car supports a 400 kg's of load, and I would think that is built well within safety margins.

Still, I'm not aguing the fact that good tires are more important !!

[1Ronnie]

Sorry, quick follow-up .... what you need is a pair of small <100 kg crash test dummies. Put them in the back seat ... keep your weight distribution in the centre of the car, and you can go in the HOV lanes on the way to work :wink:

[IS+1]

Originally Posted by ZIPNBYE

People are within the wheelbase, sand bags are at the extreme end of the car, thus add to any pendulum effect that a loss of control will create.

^^ Exactly. I agree that adding weight (e.g. sandbags) aft of the wheelbase will improve traction in a RWD the majority of the time. However, if you're not careful, if even once you let your guard down and the back end comes around, it will be that much harder to countersteer back into control. Without the added weight aft of the wheelbase, yes the back end will slide more often, but assuming you're driving at sensible speeds, you should easily be able to correct for this, assuming you have proper tires. I've driven through many winters with RWD, and many years back I used to keep two spare wheels in my trunk as weights. Not anymore.

Obviously I'm not saying don't carry stuff in your trunk if you need to, but to rely on trunk weights as a means of staying safe in the winter is a double-edged sword.

I do recognize that in hilly areas carrying weight in the trunk could help, so my word of caution is more directed at those who use trunk weights to maintain stability on flatter roads.

[warmtoes]

Originally Posted by IS+1

I do recognize that in hilly areas carrying weight in the trunk could help, so my word of caution is more directed at those who use trunk weights to maintain stability on flatter roads.

I agree, I'm not going to add massive weight aft of the rear wheels. I just put in one wheel/tire. Where it's hilly it helps and doesn't materially affect it's overall dynamics.

[Chuckbilodeau]

Originally Posted by driftdriven

So another words never have people in the car because it changes the 50/50 weight distribution???? Never drive the car otherwise I will have "extra" weight on the left side of the car and that would change my left turning capabilities??? It is just 100lbs in the rear to get some traction in areas where we have hills. I know in Aberta the hills are not half as steep as the ones here. Thanks for the ignorant comment

Actually he's right....

[raisemyrent]

100lbs of weight, mm google coefficient of friction, and figure out how much better it actually makes it when compared to the weight of the car divided by 4 (not a lot). sand bags or paving blocks or what have you work in pick ups well when in the hundreds of KILOGRAMMES (1kg = 2.2lbs). Also because a 2 wheel drive pick up is just about the silliest thing to drive around in a snowy area; the back is where the traction is, most people drive them with "all-season" or dirt tyres, and the front is where the weight is (you're pretty much hauling empty space most of the time). But enough on my rant about pick-ups; this isn't a GMC forum, so I don't need to preach.

back to 100lbs: yes, it's a placebo.
the way I look at it is, sandbags are for the old domestic (why domestic if they're american brands?) cars with all seasons and no traction control. You know, the ones that had ABS and airbags as a selling feature. You get a BMW (partly) so that you don't need those old school tricks.
I personally have driven around in the snow quite a bit this winter, and Edmonton has seen some WIDE range of temperatures, with the obligatory precipitation and melting cycles... and contrary to popular belief, there ARE hills in alberta... there's some funny big ol' looking ones that cut through our province; people call them the rockies or something... and there are random hills in particular in Edmonton around the river valley. Which brings me to the next point: I drive in winter with all the nannies on all the time, no questions asked. But I have had to turn on DTC TWICE so far, once when the temperature fluctuated about 25 degrees overnight after a big snowfall and I was driving on unplowed roads (and in this case it wasn't NECESSARY, it just helped), and once when I was going up one of the steepest said hills and one of the aforementioned cars had stalled midway because he slowed down and lost all of his momentum 3/4s of the way up, so he made all of us behind come to a dead stop... my ESC light (the adrenaline light) kept blinking but my car was moving at about 1km/h, so I switched on DTC and it went up to about 15km/h, then 25km/h, etc...

that's it. Otherwise, I find the car really good in the winter, and I feel safe in it too (I have snow tyres, of course).

[M3Newbie88]

I think I will try a spare tire first haha.. and damn today during this snow storm my car was slipping and slidding again with winter tires lol.. damn...

[Qube]

Be lighter on the throttle or start in 2nd. The 135 was loads of fun. I had her do some parking lot "drifts" yesterday. Loved it.

In retrospect, I should have bought Blizzaks if she was driving. Since I'm doing a lot of the winter driving with her car now, the performance winters do make a smidge more sense.

IMHO, get real winters if you want some bit of control.