SCI Pans the 135i

[SCMike]

Sports Car International in its July 2008 issue had a comparison of the WRX STI, R32, 135i, and Evo X MR - and that's the order they finished in, from last to first. The 135i was soundly outclassed by the Evo X, mainly due to the 135i's dubious handling in extremis. This is a bit distressing since SCI is usually my bible. It sounds like the 135i has more engine than suspension. Maybe the 128i is actually the better integrated design? (Mods don't count in my universe.)

[looking]

Can you put up the article?

[BForbes]

An //M135i is necessary. BMW knows it too. Just wait.

[raisemyrent]

for the track, though.

In my winter and pothole wonderland, the suspension is just fine.

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

An //M135i is necessary. BMW knows it too. Just wait.

In Europe it was also necessary a true M130i (four years ago).
We are still waiting... so dont' hold your breathe.

[Spook]

So.. in a magazine focused on sports ability with daily driver considerations not counting, the 135 finishes second in this pack and you're unhappy? The EVO will outrun the 135 on the track. Probably even a suspension modded 135 given AWD and computer control. The EVO is designed for this unique ability and you have to be pretty hardcore to live with it as a daily driver for those rare moments when the additional track capability can come into play. The 135 is a compromise and one that hits the needs of most enthusiasts perfectly. I need a car to drive in every day. I need a car that's fun. I need a car that I can put a guitar case in. I need a car that can take me 1000 miles without making me rush for a chiropractor at the end. All this while ranking highly against more purpose built machinery. I'm very impressed.

-Spook

[corneredbeast]

IIRC, Motor Trend testing resulted in the EVO being about 2 seconds quicker around their track than the M3.

Are we supposed to be disappointed that it's also faster around the track than the 135? If you need a car (within this price range) to do little more than go round a track, get an EVO. If you need a car to drive on the public roadways there are many more sensible, livable choices out there; the 135 is very high on that list.

[timt]

Well when car companies try to hit a price point as well as size and features, this is what you get. Which is why it is nice to live in a world with mods Making an EVO a car I would actually enjoy owning is virtually impossible at any cost: it is not attractive, inferior materials, and will give me an inferior dealership experience (maintenance).

So with the BMW, I can get a car that I want wrt size, warranty, appearance, materials. Then I can tweak it with a Dinan flash, tighten the suspension, tweak the camber, improve the wheel/tire combo. The car will still handle better on the road than the Evo, have all the things I liked about it in the first place, and I'd wager it would be at least as fun, and probably nearly as quick as the EVO on the track. 421lb/ft of torque and a tuned suspension can buy a lot of time.

However, I have to admit I don't view this as a $40k car. I am fully expecting to drop a lot more than that by the time I'm done. But I'm happy to have a right-sized car that meets all these needs, even if it is within $13k of an M3 when I'm done.

[m3bs]

Swap out the RFTs and it might be a different story.

[topvega]

Originally Posted by Spook

So.. in a magazine focused on sports ability with daily driver considerations not counting, the 135 finishes second in this pack and you're unhappy? The EVO will outrun the 135 on the track. Probably even a suspension modded 135 given AWD and computer control. The EVO is designed for this unique ability and you have to be pretty hardcore to live with it as a daily driver for those rare moments when the additional track capability can come into play. The 135 is a compromise and one that hits the needs of most enthusiasts perfectly. I need a car to drive in every day. I need a car that's fun. I need a car that I can put a guitar case in. I need a car that can take me 1000 miles without making me rush for a chiropractor at the end. All this while ranking highly against more purpose built machinery. I'm very impressed.

-Spook

Exactly...if you already have a daily driver and you are looking for a track car then go on out and buy the EVO if that is your sole purpose of the car... but when it comes to living in both worlds the 135 is the clear winner...

[imported_Katera]

I have to laugh at people who either do or don't buy a car based on 1 magazine review.


Has the author of this thread driven a 135i aggressively? If not, you should.

I saw a 2008 EVO today, they actually had one parked in the mall where I live. What a gawd awful ugly thing. Nothing says, "BLING BLING I'm 16!" like that car.

[dna550]

Sensible Supercars

July 2008 Sports Car International

http://www.sci-mag.com/

by Alex Palevsky

'Despite their similar overall dimensions, the leaner 135i does feel significantly more svelte than a 3 series from behind the wheel. And boy, does this thing move out. That twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-6 is nothing short of a mechanical marvel, offering a staggering amount of instant, lag-free acceleration coupled with a level of refinement that's rare in any $100,000+ automobile, let alone one that stickers for just $35k.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_243

&

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_74

There's no trace of vibration or harshness nor even a hint of driveline shunt, just 7,000 rpm of gloriously smooth power that's unleashed with a soothing, mellifluous purr. With proper use of the 6-speed manual gearbox, it isn't hard for me to stay well ahead of the others, at least until the descent approaches and the straight sections disappear. Then the 135i quickly takes an unexpected turn for the worse.

"As soon as I pitch the 135i into the first corner, it all falls apart in an instant, that absorbent suspension unable to appropriately deal with the substantial lateral forces and weight transfer. Any abrupt use of the throttle or brakes provokes all sorts of disconcerting body movements followed ultimately by significant understeer. Coupled with steering feel that's in short supply, this makes for a very uneasy driving experience over sinuous blacktop.

No wonder the 135i has been at the back of the pack all day long. In fact, after experiencing its unsettling antics for myself, I elect to pull over and let the others fly by. Then I recall something Glenn mentioned back in Idyllwild, after he had done a stint in the BMW: You have to drive it aggressively on the throttle as much as possible, thereby keeping the weight balance shifted rearward. It's not an easy method to put into practice, especially with understeer constantly threatening to spoil the fun, but I do manage to get it right a couple of times and the chassis responds by hunkering down and carving a clean entry to exit. This proves there are indeed talents lurking deep within the 135i after all, but I have to wonder if BMW's suspension engineers have intentionally sacrificed handling for ride, or if they genuinely expect customers to adopt such an edgy driving style.

No other single element defines the 135i as much as its motor, a powerplant of such potency and sophistication that it makes the others here feel like elementary-school projects. "The motor is the class hero of this field," quips Glen. "I was blown away by its utter lack of turbo lag when I last drove the 335i in Austria, and it's just as smooth and silky in the 1 Series."

...But for the rear-drive car that purports to have real enthusiast appeal, the BMW was surprisingly uncooperative in the twisties. 'Driving the 135i down to L.A. from San Francisco, it felt like we were bringing a gun to a knife fight,' says Gustafson. 'Then we hit the mountain road to Idyllwild and the plot suddenly took a sharp turn.' It became obvious to us that this is a car that's been tuned to feel at its best when traveling over far less demanding roads. It remains a remarkable device for scooting briskly through town or blasting for miles down the interstate, but it desperately needs a suspension upgrade to please those of us who want to go quickly around corners as they do in a straight line.

[SCMike]

Originally Posted by Spook

So.. in a magazine focused on sports ability with daily driver considerations not counting, the 135 finishes second in this pack and you're unhappy? The EVO will outrun the 135 on the track. Probably even a suspension modded 135 given AWD and computer control. The EVO is designed for this unique ability and you have to be pretty hardcore to live with it as a daily driver for those rare moments when the additional track capability can come into play. The 135 is a compromise and one that hits the needs of most enthusiasts perfectly. I need a car to drive in every day. I need a car that's fun. I need a car that I can put a guitar case in. I need a car that can take me 1000 miles without making me rush for a chiropractor at the end. All this while ranking highly against more purpose built machinery. I'm very impressed.

-Spook

I assume most folks have not actually read the SCI article. This comparison was NOT a track test, but carried out on public highways, mostly in the SoCal high desert mountain passes. Admittedly, the test drivers were probably on the gonzo end of the spectrum, but no drivers' licenses were harmed during the testing. Sure, the Evo X has the crap interior of a cheap rental car and looks only a teenager could love, but SCI stepped back and looked at the integrated engineered design and its performance (including factors of "ride comfort, build quality, and overall refinement"). The Evo IX may have been the proverbial rapid hair-shirt, but the Evo X sounds like a very different proposition. They concluded that the Evo MR was "so vastly superior to the others when it comes to satisfying demanding driving enthusiasts like us that it might as well have been in a class of its own." On the other hand, "the BMW hits higher highs and lower lows, which allowed it to slide into second place by the skin of its teeth."

Am I going to rule out a 135i and plunk down for an Evo X? Hell no (especially since I drive nowhere near the 10/10-ths end of the envelope). But such articles do give one pause. Especially since the Germans pride themselves on their stereotypical engineering prowess - hopefully they are watching the GT-R and the Evo X with some keen interest. The Japanese are knocking on the Porsche/BMW door. They may not yet have the snob appeal, but their engineering is starting to become un-ignorable.

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by SCMike

I assume most folks have not actually read the SCI article. This comparison was NOT a track test, but carried out on public highways, mostly in the SoCal high desert mountain passes. Admittedly, the test drivers were probably on the gonzo end of the spectrum, but no drivers' licenses were harmed during the testing. Sure, the Evo X has the crap interior of a cheap rental car and looks only a teenager could love, but SCI stepped back and looked at the integrated engineered design and its performance (including factors of "ride comfort, build quality, and overall refinement"). The Evo IX may have been the proverbial rapid hair-shirt, but the Evo X sounds like a very different proposition. They concluded that the Evo MR was "so vastly superior to the others when it comes to satisfying demanding driving enthusiasts like us that it might as well have been in a class of its own." On the other hand, "the BMW hits higher highs and lower lows, which allowed it to slide into second place by the skin of its teeth."

Am I going to rule out a 135i and plunk down for an Evo X? Hell no (especially since I drive nowhere near the 10/10-ths end of the envelope). But such articles do give one pause. Especially since the Germans pride themselves on their stereotypical engineering prowess - hopefully they are watching the GT-R and the Evo X with some keen interest. The Japanese are knocking on the Porsche/BMW door. They may not yet have the snob appeal, but their engineering is starting to become un-ignorable.

thanks mike...interesting stuff...

[NJKSC27]

yes i see an M135 or M1 in the future

hmmm an all wheel drive twin turbo M1....

[Zuzu]

Originally Posted by SCMike

Sports Car International in its July 2008 issue had a comparison of the WRX STI, R32, 135i, and Evo X MR - and that's the order they finished in, from last to first. The 135i was soundly outclassed by the Evo X, mainly due to the 135i's dubious handling in extremis. This is a bit distressing since SCI is usually my bible. It sounds like the 135i has more engine than suspension. Maybe the 128i is actually the better integrated design? (Mods don't count in my universe.)

The report doesnt mention whether the 135i test car was the standard model or had the M Sports pack fitted which has the firmer suspension..
Or did i miss it somewhere?:iono:

[dna550]

Meanwhile, the 135i has ostensibly been tailored to suit the needs of avid driving enthusiasts with its standard [North America] M sport suspension, M bodywork and 18-inch wheels, not to mention BMW's very first six-piston front brakes calipers (M series products included).

from:

Sensible Supercars

July 2008 Sports Car International

http://www.sci-mag.com/

by Alex Palevsky

[kobezklutch]

Originally Posted by Zuzu

The report doesnt mention whether the 135i test car was the standard model or had the M Sports pack fitted which has the firmer suspension..
Or did i miss it somewhere?:iono:

same suspension here in the US. sport suspension is standard...

[six-n-twins]

I am in the market for a 135. I know that this car may see a drag strip or scca course a time or two in its life. Most of its duty will consist of daily driving though, and I am not really too concerned about which car posted a faster lap time at willow springs. Is an MR driver going to pull up next to me after a beat him to the next stop light and tell me to follow him to the closest road course? Probably not. I am sure that the evo is a much more polished track star. Great. If I wanted impractical discomfort I'd opt for an Elise. I will admit to cross shopping the STi though. Seems much more practical. But after looking at the interior and other aspects of design I actually felt a little ridiculous. I felt like I was in a 16 year old's dream car.

For me, the fact that there arent alot of cars with significantly faster acceleration times outweighs the fact that there are a few cars that are better track performers. Plus the fact that my choice doesnt appeal to every highschooler around means Im doing something right. Just my two cents.:smile:

[Lester]

Originally Posted by dna550

Sensible Supercars

July 2008 Sports Car International

by Alex Palevsky

"As soon as I pitch the 135i into the first corner, it all falls apart in an instant, that absorbent suspension unable to appropriately deal with the substantial lateral forces and weight transfer"

So tune the suspension already. WTF? Rear sway bars are already available, and options exist for coilovers and different width tires. Personally, I find it corners like shit on a blanket, but then I am not trying to push it over any limits.

[Kokanator135]

"shit on a blanket".....Wha??

[imported_Katera]

Originally Posted by SCMike

But such articles do give one pause. Especially since the Germans pride themselves on their stereotypical engineering prowess - hopefully they are watching the GT-R and the Evo X with some keen interest. The Japanese are knocking on the Porsche/BMW door. They may not yet have the snob appeal, but their engineering is starting to become un-ignorable.

Such articles? >90% of the reviews, shootouts and extended driving impressions for the 1's have said the same thing: Total kick ass. So you are going to "take pause" from one article? /shrug

Go read Motortrend or Edmunds reviews. Look at the Road and Track Slalom, 0-60 time, and stopping stats vs the Evo/Cayman S and the likes.

I'll ask again...Have you driven a 135i hard yet??? The car in stock form is far beyond most of our abilities to drive it. If you track, throw a little cash into the suspension and continue to kick ass.

As far as Germans worrying about cars like the EvoX...something tells me they aren't. The EVO is so ass ugly, classless and unprofessional looking that very few people over 30 would ever consider it. That my friend is a fact. Like it or not, in the professional world pulling up in an EVO no matter what its performance was would get a big laugh.