Apex Racing dumping G80 for F80 (ring taxi)

[Bumpinjeep]

I can't remember the last time I've seen a new gen car get dumped for a previous gen car for performance reasons. It makes sense, especially in this use case.

[Atavus]

Useful if you ever need to create a Ring Taxi. Bit like when they replaced a McLaren with the Porsche GT2RS.

[Redd]

I love how these guys torture test the cars and are so open with their findings. True car guys, not just a car rental business.

[NickyC]

The Ring just got a little more beautiful. Good choice.

[dangerus_car]

sorry, i m not following, what did he mean by saying the car (G80) can not handle the weight compare to the F80? passenger weight? what made the newer car more prone to this failure? suspension?

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

sorry, i m not following, what did he mean by saying the car (G80) can not handle the weight compare to the F80? passenger weight? what made the newer car more prone to this failure? suspension?

Yes, the G series car is bigger and heavier than the F series, they ended up spending a lot more money on consumerables like brakes and tires. Also, no DCT is totally fine on the street but really missing the exeprience on the track.
Here's some info

[shiftdnb]

I actually just got a lap in the G80 the week before they retired it. From my understanding it has had some broken suspension parts. I'm thinking because of it's weight and the amount of laps it goes out on it was too expensive to maintain.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by shiftdnb

I actually just got a lap in the G80 the week before they retired it. From my understanding it has had some broken suspension parts. I'm thinking because of it's weight and the amount of laps it goes out on it was too expensive to maintain.

Plus with all of the shortages, I imagine F series parts are much more available and most likely cheaper.

[dangerus_car]

how many cars do they have in their stable? according to their website, only 4?

https://www.apex-nuerburg.com/apex-taxi-laps/

[02M3ForMe]

Context - this is the same guy who pledged to never buy one of these cars.

Predictably, he’s been publicly second-guessing his purchase ever since the day he announced taking delivery and has shown little will to invest in building out the car like the prior F80.

Given that one of the original “Ring Taxi” cars that popularized the concept and is probably most associated with the name is a 2-ton E60 M5, not sure how the lighter, more robust, and obviously far more modern G80 M3 isn’t up to the task. If running costs are higher, adjust the lap prices higher, like every other track experience company.

[kevinm03]

Apex run their cars a lot harder than RingTaxi. RingTaxi drivers have targets for wear life on tyres/brakes etc. They dont push anywhere as hard as the Apex taxi is pushed. The RingTaxi M5 is driven considerably slower than the Apex taxi. Dale drove the Jaguar taxi very hard but that operation was run for marketing rather than for profit.

The G80 was very hard on consumables (tyres/brakes etc). I know that it broke a driveshaft a few weeks ago also.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Context - this is the same guy who pledged to never buy one of these cars.

Predictably, he’s been publicly second-guessing his purchase ever since the day he announced taking delivery and has shown little will to invest in building out the car like the prior F80.

Given that one of the original “Ring Taxi” cars that popularized the concept and is probably most associated with the name is a 2-ton E60 M5, not sure how the lighter, more robust, and obviously far more modern G80 M3 isn’t up to the task. If running costs are higher, adjust the lap prices higher, like every other track experience company.

Yet they bought it anyway and made a video eating their words, and even then they are going back to their F80. Like I posted in the G forum, that specific F80 is one of a kind and will absolutely ruin a stock / halfway modded G80 like they had. F and G are so similar that if you want a track build, the F is more accessible and has similar chassis limits with vast array of aftermarket parts and services. That’s where you’re going to see F8X really shine in the coming years.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yet they bought it anyway and made a video eating their words, and even then they are going back to their F80. Like I posted in the G forum, that specific F80 is one of a kind and will absolutely ruin a stock / halfway modded G80 like they had. F and G are so similar that if you want a track build, the F is more accessible and has similar chassis limits with vast array of aftermarket parts and services. That’s where you’re going to see F8X really shine in the coming years.

They posted several videos before putting the car in service projecting a clear lack of enthusiasm for the car, with Robert giving off strong "I don't know if I can do this" vibes the whole time. Watch the videos where they try and find a wrap design; nothing to do with the drive, yet RM spends the majority of the time expressing buyer's remorse already.

There's a nearly 20 second difference in Ring laptimes between the base cars, so while I don't doubt that the built F80 taxi is faster than the G80 taxi, I don't think it's automatic that the gap is as wide as you suggest. The base G80 Comp does a full Sport Auto lap almost as fast as an F80 Comp does a BtG lap - the G80 platform starts well ahead, it is significantly faster. The M4 CSL, which apparently some consider nothing more than an underwhelming appearance package, is an additional 10 seconds faster with 'only' +40hp and -100kg. A dedicated Taxi build should do better, and maybe even a half-assed one like their current setup.

The G8x has been on the market for just over a year; I think it's fair to expect aftermarket support to match F8x support in the long run.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

They posted several videos before putting the car in service projecting a clear lack of enthusiasm for the car, with Robert giving off strong "I don't know if I can do this" vibes the whole time. Watch the videos where they try and find a wrap design; nothing to do with the drive, yet RM spends the majority of the time expressing buyer's remorse already.

There's a nearly 20 second difference in Ring laptimes between the base cars, so while I don't doubt that the built F80 taxi is faster than the G80 taxi, I don't think it's automatic that the gap is as wide as you suggest. The base G80 Comp does a full Sport Auto lap almost as fast as an F80 Comp does a BtG lap - the G80 platform starts well ahead, it is significantly faster. The M4 CSL, which apparently some consider nothing more than an underwhelming appearance package, is an additional 10 seconds faster with 'only' +40hp and -100kg. A dedicated Taxi build should do better, and maybe even a half-assed one like their current setup.

The G8x has been on the market for just over a year; I think it's fair to expect aftermarket support to match F8x support in the long run.

So a few things:

- They've praised G80's dynamics on multiple occasions. As a car from a typical driver, they've said nothing but good things. Robert is currently using it as his DD. My take is they really want to like it... they wouldn't have bought it and spent as much money on it otherwise.

- Comparing ring times is missing some extremely important context: tires, repave, and confirmation from Yngdln (or whatever his name is) that BMW sandbagged that initial 7:50 time. Absolutely G80 is faster stock for stock, no arguments there, but the differential is not what the times suggest - it will be closer than 20 seconds.

- Their F80 is literally a fully built track car. Completely different kinematics, suspension setup, brakes, engine tuning, etc. It is sooo far from a stock F80 - but illustrates exactly where you can take these cars. If you take a F80, G80, E90, E46, E36, or E30 and you even out the power to weight and mechanical grip like you would with a track build, no car will be faster than the other. That's the point I'm making - F80 is so similar to G80 that for pure track purposes, it isn't a big stretch to even things out between platforms. The advantages you get with F80 over G80 as a base platform are less weight, DCT, and dead simple maintenance.

- If we break it down their F80 is likely around 3400lbs + 4 x 150lb individuals = 4000lbs getting sent around the 'ring fast. G80 is 3800lbs + 4 x 150lb individuals = 4400lbs getting fully sent. That extra 400 lbs is significant on component wear and consumable costs. I'm not sure why it's surprising to some that a stock or even modded G80 like theirs is just not fit for purpose in this context. No stock or half modded cars would be. It's literally sending a full taxi of people around the 'ring day in and day out at a faster than average pace. They've been thru endless consumables and even multiple motors and transmissions - that would happen regardless of the platform they chose just by nature of the task at hand, it's just much cheaper on F8X.

[shiftdnb]

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

how many cars do they have in their stable? according to their website, only 4?

https://www.apex-nuerburg.com/apex-taxi-laps/

They have a BMW 218i, Toyota Yaris, VW GTI, Cupra, M4 and they just bought another M2 that you can rent to drive. For their Taxi laps they had the F80 replaced that with the G80 and just brought the F80 back. They also have a Porsche but that was wrecked a couple weeks ago and getting fixed from the last I saw. Robert also has the E30 M3 that he will bring people out on laps randomly.

[shiftdnb]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yet they bought it anyway and made a video eating their words, and even then they are going back to their F80. Like I posted in the G forum, that specific F80 is one of a kind and will absolutely ruin a stock / halfway modded G80 like they had. F and G are so similar that if you want a track build, the F is more accessible and has similar chassis limits with vast array of aftermarket parts and services. That’s where you’re going to see F8X really shine in the coming years.

They absolutely hate the look of the G80 but they did like how it drove on the track. That was at the beginning of the season. Apparently it's eaten through a few parts already.

[G30M]

Sounds like Robert Kubica paid a visit

[shiftdnb]

Originally Posted by G80M4

Sounds like Robert Kubica paid a visit

You can still rent that M4

[dangerus_car]

Originally Posted by shiftdnb

They have a BMW 218i, Toyota Yaris, VW GTI, Cupra, M4 and they just bought another M2 that you can rent to drive. For their Taxi laps they had the F80 replaced that with the G80 and just brought the F80 back. They also have a Porsche but that was wrecked a couple weeks ago and getting fixed from the last I saw. Robert also has the E30 M3 that he will bring people out on laps randomly.

I hope it's the Yaris GR that they own, damn, the 3 cylinder rally car. would love to see that lapping Nurburing

[kevinm03]

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

I hope it's the Yaris GR that they own, damn, the 3 cylinder rally car. would love to see that lapping Nurburing

It is