SavageGeese - The Future of In-Car Tech

[Equilibrandt]

This is a pretty great release from SG.

Delves into Toyota's design choices for in-car tech. Talks a lot about how car manufacturers are way behind the tech curve and how they make up for it (and why start-ups like Tesla and Rivian are seemingly ahead because they're tech companies first and car manufacturers second).

There's a small section from some Toyota execs about physical buttons versus touch functions too. Might shed some light onto why BMW seems hellbent on ID8. Worth the watch!

[Alfisti]

Great video but fuck me dead, all this talk is great but why is everything so shit? Bunch of fucking egg heads naval gazing. This is DEAD FUCKING EASY. Hard touch, physical control for volume, hvac and commonly used controls. Touch screen for longer term settings and options.

Done. There i saved you billions you giblets.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Great video but fuck me dead, all this talk is great but why is everything so shit? Bunch of fucking egg heads naval gazing. This is DEAD FUCKING EASY. Hard touch, physical control for volume, hvac and commonly used controls. Touch screen for longer term settings and options.

Done. There i saved you billions you giblets.

Problem is...it is cheaper for brands to have one screen and integrate everything into that one screen. Rather than develop and provide switch gear for each new model. Bean counters get to report more savings to their superiors.

[Alfisti]

And people wonder why analog cars keep jumping in price. Getting n the 997 is a relief, it's basically 4 fat tyres, 400hp and a steering wheel. Done.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Great video but fuck me dead, all this talk is great but why is everything so shit? Bunch of fucking egg heads naval gazing. This is DEAD FUCKING EASY. Hard touch, physical control for volume, hvac and commonly used controls. Touch screen for longer term settings and options.

Done. There i saved you billions you giblets.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Great video but fuck me dead, all this talk is great but why is everything so shit? Bunch of fucking egg heads naval gazing. This is DEAD FUCKING EASY. Hard touch, physical control for volume, hvac and commonly used controls. Touch screen for longer term settings and options.

Done. There i saved you billions you giblets.

Yes, this. Touch for the sake of touch is a bad idea and not ergonomic.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

And people wonder why analog cars keep jumping in price. Getting n the 997 is a relief, it's basically 4 fat tyres, 400hp and a steering wheel. Done.

That’s why Porsches in general command a premium. If you enjoy driving, you care less about all the gizmos. Better headlights? Sure. But some features don’t really add to driving dynamics, they actually distract you. The main thing I absolutely loved about my 135is was that it was still a pretty analog car. No digital screens, just nice clear gauges, lovely suspension and beautiful inline six motor. If only the DCT wasn’t trying to kill me, I’d probably still have it.

[King_Leonard]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Problem is...it is cheaper for brands to have one screen and integrate everything into that one screen. Rather than develop and provide switch gear for each new model. Bean counters get to report more savings to their superiors.

Also, the general public is more impressed with a single touch screen because it's new and cool. Gotta impress your friends and family.

[Tacoma]

Savagegeese is one of the best auto reviewers out there but this one misses the mark. It's supposed to be about the future of car tech but it's really about the past and present. It's mainly about how systems development work including business analysis & requirements (like user experience), application and data design & development (like decisions on data security & cloud vs. local computing) with marketing thrown in like repeating over and over again it's about satisfying the customer that's most important, blah, blah, blah. There's nothing really new or futuristic here.

If it was about the future, I would expect things like how smart cars will work, technology behind automate driving, advances in battery technology, vehicle networking & their impacts (like reduced traffic), etc. They touched on networking very briefly with high performance computing with their Microsoft bit, but with due respect to Bill Gates, Microsoft is hardly the expert in this area especially as it relates to automotive.

And with due respect to Toyota, they're hardly a leader in technology advancements, they're more apt to be followers. They do a lot of talking about user experience and user interface (which are common terms) of the infotainment system but I couldn't help but think if they were so good at it, why does their user interface suck so much? If they wanted to find out about how to develop good UI's, they should've interview BMW instead.

[Donatello.]

I prefer actual knobs/buttons for climate & stereo. I have never liked the fact that I have to go into the U Connect menu for some basic climate control functions

[Efthreeoh]

Yeah, the legacy car companies are not "tech" companies. LOL

[zx10guy]

I generally like Mark's (Savagegeese) videos. But I also agree this video misses the mark. It's one big infomercial for Toyota. And I have to say Toyota is THE worst with developing Infotainment systems and the user interface. I'm listening to all the BS from these Toyota talking heads about how they did so much research and development involving user feedback and wonder where the hell was all of that with their current infotainment systems? I'm coming from this as an actual Toyota owner. The Entune 3.0 system is a total piece of $hit. The apps that they keep talking about which are available in the Entune 3.0 system is total garbage. The only thing I've used with some benefit is Yelp. Their excuse for a GPS app, if you didn't opt for the full blown nav system which runs as a traditional nav system where it requires maps updates, is total garbage. The GPS app is called Scout GPS. Directions were wonky at times. The only way to get a full map view is you are required to plug in your phone into the USB port and have the Entune 3.0 app installed on your phone. Many times the hand shake over the USB port just wouldn't work. So you're stuck with Bluetooth connectivity which only gives you turn by turn. To add insult to injury, the Scout GPS app only functions as a free trial for I think 3 years. After that, you're expected to pay for that garbage to keep it working. Navigating around the various settings within Entune is also clunky.

To top it all off, Toyota's overall roadmap and standardization across all their global markets was and probably still is so screwed up it's laughable. Their ad hoc hit and miss selection of which cars are eligible for connected upgrades along with how some markets get an upgrade versus another is a total mess. When I bought my 2019 C-HR the dealer staff kept telling me they're expecting a firmware update to the head unit to give it Android Auto. Well, it's now 3 years since buying the car and no update. Yeah, I can hear the anti dealership people here saying what do you expect from a dealer...lying to make a sale. Yet there are numerous other North American owners of these types of vehicles (model year 2019) that were told the same thing from their dealers. Toyota corporate couldn't even get their messaging to their dealers right. Then they released an Android Auto upgrade to a limited number of 2019 model year cars in the Australian market but gave the middle finger to the rest of the world.

On the topic of security which was brought up in the video. The talking heads kept talking about how they put the utmost into making sure personal data is fully protected. That's the same excuse they used as a lame reason why Android Auto wasn't put into the latest generation of infotainment head units when they were initially released. But somehow model year 2020 cars all got Android Auto. I looked into possibly buying a 2020 model year head unit with Android Auto for my car as the head unit physically didn't change. Toyota wanted $7k for the damn head unit. Since looking into physically upgrading my head unit, I've found a much better solution in the form of a CarlinkIT full Android box that plugs into the USB port and provides full Android (not Android Auto) through the Carplay interface. This also brings up another thing about their investment in interior/technology design. My car is marketed for the young hip connected demographic. ONE USB port....really Toyota? Toyota has had a number of years to fix this and they haven't. The current 2022 model still only has one USB port.

Also on the topic of security as this was brought up in the video. When they were talking about supply chain security along with tampering of the physical components, to me, it's a veiled justification for them to push their anti right to repair agenda. Toyota is one of the biggest contributors to the anti right to repair lobbyists.

Subscriptions kept being talked about in the video. Scout GPS was their first push into this. And now you see them applying it to their remote start feature. You only see it in the fine print that you only enjoy this feature for a number of years before you have to pay for it to keep it working. Nice. I don't know if Toyota has back tracked from this stupid idea but many reviewers have been making tons of jokes and negative comments about this. What's next? Subscription based use on heated seats? Remote unlock and locking of your doors?

With my experience with how terrible Toyota has dropped the ball on their implementation of tech and their early warning shots on subscriptions, I don't know if I'd buy another Toyota product.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

What's next? Subscription based use on heated seats? Remote unlock and locking of your doors?

Yes, 100% yes. Give it 10 years it'll be everywhere like micro-transactions in video games.

Analog cars pre-2012ish will continue to go up as sensible people shy away from this rubbish.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yes, 100% yes. Give it 10 years it'll be everywhere like micro-transactions in video games.

Analog cars pre-2012ish will continue to go up as sensible people shy away from this rubbish.

This whole subscription model goes beyond just what's happening with cars. People have been conditioned to accept this. Look what happened to music. Companies love this as it enforces a continuous revenue stream and THEY have control over the product which they can leverage the DMCA to enforce.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

This whole subscription model goes beyond just what's happening with cars. People have been conditioned to accept this. Look what happened to music. Companies love this as it enforces a continuous revenue stream and THEY have control over the product which they can leverage the DMCA to enforce.

The push for EVs is the catalyst. The end game is subscription models as "ownership". 100% privately-owned vehicles are going to be a thing of the past, if companies get their way.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cos270

The push for EVs is the catalyst. The end game is subscription models as "ownership". 100% privately-owned vehicles are going to be a thing of the past, if companies get their way.

Internet says 30% of cars are leased. Almost a third the way there.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Internet says 30% of cars are leased. Almost a third the way there.

I'll leave a link to a post I made in another thread, but I'm talking about more than just leasing vs. owning individual vehicles. The number of cars per capita is the real enemy of emissions, which is how this all circles back (in theory)

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...3#post28868503

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cos270

I'll leave a link to a post I made in another thread, but I'm talking about more than just leasing vs. owning individual vehicles. The number of cars per capita is the real enemy of emissions, which is how this all circles back (in theory)

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...3#post28868503

I understand, I was trying to relate that if 30% of the market is leased, the concept of non-owneship is possibly a viable one. However, car sharing may not be as accepted by the market. I don't agree with reducing the number of privately owned units will reduce GHG emissions because cars are only polluting when they are driven. The politicos want to reduce the number of miles driven per capita. Don't think writing an Executive Order hasn't been thought of. Lol.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I understand, I was trying to relate that if 30% of the market is leased, the concept of non-owneship is possibly a viable one. However, car sharing may not be as accepted by the market. I don't agree with reducing the number of privately owned units will reduce GHG emissions because cars are only polluting when they are driven. The politicos want to reduce the number of miles driven per capita. Don't think writing an Executive Order hasn't been thought of. Lol.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood. I don't agree either, and think people's eyes are bigger than their stomachs. Just glad I bought my car when I did and I never plan on selling it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Ah, I see. I misunderstood. I don't agree either, and think people's eyes are bigger than their stomachs. Just glad I bought my car when I did and I never plan on selling it.

As I said in the other thread you linked to, not everyone lives in a city. Where I live, waiting for an autonomous EV to pick me up would not be economical for the car service provider. It's 26 miles just to get to my place and then back out. And then I have a bridge to cross with no guardrails (try that Tesla, lol). There are tens of millions of Americans who are not served by city-based infrastructure.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Internet says 30% of cars are leased. Almost a third the way there.

I would have thought it was more. Seems like everyone leases these days. Although I guess it's easier for some to get approved for 500 month loans and be forever upside down.

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

I would have thought it was more. Seems like everyone leases these days. Although I guess it's easier for some to get approved for 500 month loans and be forever upside down.

You're telling me that for zero $ down I can get a 3 series LCI with ID8 for 96 months!?

Sign me up!