Using ms109 in an m4

[Justinyez]

Going to use bootmod3’s stage 2 race gas map, is anything else needed to run ms109 fuel besides the tune and downpipes.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Justinyez

Going to use bootmod3’s stage 2 race gas map, is anything else needed to run ms109 fuel besides the tune and downpipes.

Good set of BMC filters with charcoal liners removed couldn't hurt. Otherwise, you're set.

[FriedPiston]

Below is a list of a proper Stage 2 setup in order of importance:

1. Tune
2. Down pipes
3. Charge pipes
4. 2-step colder spark plugs (NGK 97506)
5. Mid pipe or catless exhaust
6. Charcoal filter delete w/ either K&N or BMC air filters

Most importantly, datalog as much as possible, so you can evaluate how things are going with the tune.

Addition: Speaking from experience, try to go with Sunoco 260 GT Plus as an alternative to MS109. They're usually priced $30-$40 less with an octane rating difference of 104 versus 105.

[Justinyez]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Below is a list of a proper Stage 2 setup in order of importance:

1. Tune
2. Down pipes
3. Charge pipes
4. 2-step colder spark plugs (NGK 97506)
5. Mid pipe or catless exhaust
6. Charcoal filter delete w/ either K&N or BMC air filters

Most importantly, datalog as much as possible, so you can evaluate how things are going with the tune.

Addition: Speaking from experience, try to go with Sunoco 260 GT Plus as an alternative to MS109. They're usually priced $30-$40 less with an octane rating difference of 104 versus 105.

I have 1,2,3 and 5 do you think that I should be good to try it out or no

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Justinyez

I have 1,2,3 and 5 do you think that I should be good to try it out or no

You'll be okay for the most part. You will know if 2-step colder spark plugs are needed as soon as you try to go full boost, and the engine starts breaking up.

[chewbakam4]

Originally Posted by nars3000

You'll be okay for the most part. You will know if 2-step colder spark plugs are needed as soon as you try to go full boost, and the engine starts breaking up.

They’re 1 step colder than S55 plugs

[Swiftym3]

I have run all types of fuel ... was not happy with the sunoco 260gt ... but the ms109 was great ... i only have intake cp and dp ... gaped down stock plugs to .020 and all is well so far

[JPOWER]

@swiftym3 I also tried the Sunoco 260gt plus and though it did feel a little bit more alive I wasn't really impressed. I am about to try the MS109 so what mixture did you use? 1/4 tank of 93oct and 5 gallons of MS109? also what difference did you feel vs the Sunoco. Thanks in advance for your imput

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by chewbakam4

They’re 1 step colder than S55 plugs

You are correct.

Originally Posted by Swiftym3

I have run all types of fuel ... was not happy with the sunoco 260gt ... but the ms109 was great ... i only have intake cp and dp ... gaped down stock plugs to .20 and all is well so far

There's 260 GT (100 octane) and 260 GT Plus (104 octane). Which one are you referring to?

https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gt
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gt-plus

Spark plug type and gapping all depends on how much boost you're pushing, and if you have any plans to regularly run full E85. For reference, I experienced a lot of breaking up at around 23-24 psi peak boost with NGK 97506s gapped to 0.020" on full E85.

FYI .20 gap as you noted, would be way out of range.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by nars3000

You are correct.

There's 260 GT (100 octane) and 260 GT Plus (104 octane). Which one are you referring to?

https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gt
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gt-plus

Spark plug type and gapping all depends on how much boost you're pushing, and if you have any plans to regularly run full E85. For reference, I experienced a lot of breaking up at around 23-24 psi peak boost with NGK 97506s gapped to 0.020" on full E85.

FYI .20 gap as you noted, would be way out of range.

Under 25psi I have not heard of any of my friends breaking anywhere with 0.020 gap even on stock stock plugs. Do you think maybe something else?
What are you currently gapped at 0.018-0.019?

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by FSociety

Under 25psi I have not heard of any of my friends breaking anywhere with 0.020 gap even on stock stock plugs. Do you think maybe something else?
What are you currently gapped at 0.018-0.019?

I have a handful of theories based on months of logging, but don't want to go off topic. Every car reacts differently, even with relatively similar setups.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by nars3000

I have a handful of theories based on months of logging, but don't want to go off topic. Every car reacts differently, even with relatively similar setups.

Got cha PM me


Op! You have to keep in mind adding 110oct to a 98-103 octane map for example won't do any good

[JPOWER]

Are we able to run MS109 PURE? or how much 93oct should be added

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by JPOWER

Are we able to run MS109 PURE? or how much 93oct should be added

With Bootmod3 Racegas Map they suggest VP MS109 or any 100+ octane equivalent. The folks in Europe are using 102+ RON from their pump as well.

[JPOWER]

Originally Posted by FSociety

With Bootmod3 Racegas Map they suggest VP MS109 or any 100+ octane equivalent. The folks in Europe are using 102+ RON from their pump as well.

I'm confused. I have a DME STAGE 3 tune which i can use up to 4gallons of E85 mixed. my question was can i just use MS109 straight up without mixing any 93oct? or has anyone done this and how did the car perform.

Thanks

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by JPOWER

I'm confused. I have a DME STAGE 3 tune which i can use up to 4gallons of E85 mixed. my question was can i just use MS109 straight up without mixing any 93oct? or has anyone done this and how did the car perform.

Thanks

Best to ask your tuner

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by JPOWER

I'm confused. I have a DME STAGE 3 tune which i can use up to 4gallons of E85 mixed. my question was can i just use MS109 straight up without mixing any 93oct? or has anyone done this and how did the car perform.

Thanks

I've used 100% MS109 , 50/50 MS109 and E85, and 50/50 MS109 and ACN91.

You can use just about any unleaded fuel without causing any damage to the engine components.

Of course, high octane fuel without the proper tune will not make the car any faster.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Of course, high octane fuel without the proper tune will not make the car any faster.

What I meant to say lol

[JPOWER]

Originally Posted by nars3000

I've used 100% MS109 , 50/50 MS109 and E85, and 50/50 MS109 and ACN91.

You can use just about any unleaded fuel without causing any damage to the engine components.

Of course, high octane fuel without the proper tune will not make the car any faster.

Thanks man that's what i wanted to know. which mixed would you say gave you the best results?

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by JPOWER

Thanks man that's what i wanted to know. which mixed would you say gave you the best results?

Everything varies, but I got my personal best 1/4 mile time with 60/40 E85 to 100 octane fuel mix.

Read here for more info on race fuels: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1249551

[Swiftym3]

Originally Posted by JPOWER

@swiftym3 I also tried the Sunoco 260gt plus and though it did feel a little bit more alive I wasn't really impressed. I am about to try the MS109 so what mixture did you use? 1/4 tank of 93oct and 5 gallons of MS109? also what difference did you feel vs the Sunoco. Thanks in advance for your imput

It all depends on what you are tuned for ... lots of good mixtures ... you can run straight ms109 and get a lot of boost out of it or add some E85 for its cooling effects and it will also help ... if you are just going to use an ots map just stick with straight ms109 i would presume