Apple's Tim Cook is a 'f'-up

[overcoil]

So in 2013 in front of a congressional committee investigating tax-shelter off shore accounts, Tim Cook differentiates Caribbean tax havens to North Atlantic tax havens in a total surreptitiously ignominious statement.
Sad to see Cook neuter Apple.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/0...gtype=Homepage

[shay2nak]

of course he is. Who else would skip over the 7S and name a new iphone the 8 and then simultaneously release the iphone 10, which technically shouldn't be out for another 6 years.

[JohnnyCanuck]

I have no problem criticizing Tim Cook and Apple and the hair splitting that article points out is worth the critcism. However, as a human being, corporate citizen, and workplace leader he is an immeasurable improvement on that hypocritical parasite Steve Jobs. He's not neutering Apple at all ... he's improved that company immensely by every measure (innovation, corporate responsibility, treatment of employees, and shareholder accountability).

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

of course he is. Who else would skip over the 7S and name a new iphone the 8 and then simultaneously release the iphone 10, which technically shouldn't be out for another 6 years.

I'm waiting to find out if the X is too fragile for its intended use. If the Samsung
Galaxy Note 8 is out now I don't really see the iPhone X as being competitively dominating in production advancement.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

I have no problem criticizing Tim Cook and Apple and the hair splitting that article points out is worth the critcism. However, as a human being, corporate citizen, and workplace leader he is an immeasurable improvement on that hypocritical parasite Steve Jobs. He's not neutering Apple at all ... he's improved that company immensely by every measure (innovation, corporate responsibility, treatment of employees, and shareholder accountability).

Steve jobs as far as I know never sat in front of a committee and misled and I would rate Jobs as historically charismatic- his keynote speeches were epic.

[JohnnyCanuck]

I never argued his charisma. I view him as the epitome of style over substance in every way. I wasn't defending Tim Cook, I was challenging the "neutered Apple" comment because I think Apple is a much better company these days in so many ways.

[xQx]

As much as I hate apple - you do know that it is a multinational company's _responsibility_ to legally minimize its tax.

The responsibility of directors according to the companys act 2013 is to:
* to act in good faith in order to promote the objects of the company
for the benefit of its members as a whole;
* to act in the best interest of the company, its employees,
shareholders, community and for the protection of environment;

Note that Apple sells to many different markets and not all its shareholders are American. It has to act in the best interest of its self and its shareholders.

This means managing capital effectively and minimizing losses to entities that don't provide the best value-for-money benefit to the company or its shareholders. IE. Paying taxes to foreign and domestic states & governments. From the perspective of the company, it should be returning those profits back to shareholders, who then pay their income taxes in whatever jurisdictions they live in.

This doesn't mean they should break the law or "avoid" taxes, but if the government shuts down one legal tax shelter and leaves another legal tax shelter open; it is the company's responsibility to move financial operations to that other legal tax shelter.

I can't find the talk, but I heard Bill Gates talking about this and he said - Multinational Companies should pay their fair share of tax, but it's bad corporate governance to be paying more tax than you legally have to. It's up to governments to change the laws so they collect a fair share of taxes from multinational companies. It's up to multinational companies to abide by those laws.

But poo-pooing apple because "We closed one legal loophole and they found another legal loophole" is nothing more than a beat-up.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by xQx

As much as I hate apple - you do know that it is a multinational company's _responsibility_ to legally minimize its tax.

The responsibility of directors according to the companys act 2013 is to:
* to act in good faith in order to promote the objects of the company
for the benefit of its members as a whole;
* to act in the best interest of the company, its employees,
shareholders, community and for the protection of environment;

Note that Apple sells to many different markets and not all its shareholders are American. It has to act in the best interest of its self and its shareholders.

This means managing capital effectively and minimizing losses to entities that don't provide the best value-for-money benefit to the company or its shareholders. IE. Paying taxes to foreign and domestic states & governments. From the perspective of the company, it should be returning those profits back to shareholders, who then pay their income taxes in whatever jurisdictions they live in.

This doesn't mean they should break the law or "avoid" taxes, but if the government shuts down one legal tax shelter and leaves another legal tax shelter open; it is the company's responsibility to move financial operations to that other legal tax shelter.

I can't find the talk, but I heard Bill Gates talking about this and he said - Multinational Companies should pay their fair share of tax, but it's bad corporate governance to be paying more tax than you legally have to. It's up to governments to change the laws so they collect a fair share of taxes from multinational companies. It's up to multinational companies to abide by those laws.

But poo-pooing apple because "We closed one legal loophole and they found another legal loophole" is nothing more than a beat-up.

Cook shouldn't have said Apple doesn't use tax havens in the Caribbean, he's a scammer.

[BayMoWe335]

Apple is the best company in the world and has broken 0 laws. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Blame the laws, not Apple. They have shareholders.

[xQx]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Cook shouldn't have said Apple doesn't use tax havens in the Caribbean, he's a scammer.

In his defence, Apple doesn't use tax havens in the Caribbean. They use(d) tax havens in the english channel.

The highest paid sales people have generally learnt the art of technically telling the truth. Good journalists call them out for it.

Look at what he said and what he didn't say:

“We pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar,” means "We pay every cent of tax that we are legally required to pay, and not one cent more"

“We don’t depend on tax gimmicks,” means "We use legitimate accounting techniques to move our profits to the best jurisdiction for our shareholders, these are not gimmicks"

“We don’t stash money on some Caribbean island.” means "we stash money anywhere in the world except, specifically: Caribbean islands."

A good journalist would've followed up with:

"Having compared the figures in Apple's last annual report with the effective corporate tax rate in California of [30%], why is apple's tax bill only $x, not $y. You said you're not using gimmicks to move money to caribbean islands and you're paying everything you're legally required to pay; but does Apple engage in international tax-minimisation accounting techniques, for example, "transfer pricing" or "related-company intellectual property licencing" to minimise its tax liabilities in highly taxed parts of the world? Yes or No, please, Mr Cook."

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Apple is the best company in the world and has broken 0 laws. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Blame the laws, not Apple. They have shareholders.

Man, I wouldn't go that far. "Best Company" by innovation? by profitibility? by market capitalization? by vision? by corproate ethics? ... they're good, but not that good.

Remember Apple's been caught up in scandals involving child labour, people committing suicide due to being overworked, putting undue pressure on people who've helped leak their products but haven't broken the law.... I don't think they've broken 0 laws. They might not've broken any big ones, and I also expect they haven't broken any in this instance - but apple themselves, if they haven't broken any laws it's because they haven't got caught.

... anyway, if you were being sarcastic or I misinterpreted, i'll STFU.

As for your comment "don't hate the player, hate the game" I'm with you 100%.

The guy told the truth in a misleading way, and obeyed the letter of the law but broke it in spirit.

There are many ways you can get to the top, I wouldn't go as far as to say "thats part of the job description", you wouldn't expect it of Elon Musk or Richard Branson... but that skill is certainly not an uncommon or even a generally undesirable one of top sales people.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Cook shouldn't have said Apple doesn't use tax havens in the Caribbean, he's a scammer.

I'd love to be this ignorant sometimes

If you think companies shouldn't be able to do this then I am sure you are in support of the tax reform going through the house/senate now? It does a decent job of stopping "tax havens". Or is the liberal media saying that it would increase taxes for middle class just all people need to hear to hate it these days?

I actually read an article (on TheHill, is that left or right?) that quoted multiple democrats as saying they were going to try and shut down the tax reform "in any form it takes" because it would be a good political win if the Trump administration can't get it completed. Good to see them doing their job and working for what is best for their employers... oh wait....

[Wolf 335]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

of course he is. Who else would skip over the 7S and name a new iphone the 8 and then simultaneously release the iphone 10, which technically shouldn't be out for another 6 years.

They needed a benchmark number for facial recognition.

They couldn't just roll that out and dominate with that technology with iphone 9.

X or 10 just sounded a lot better from a marketing perspective.