Laguna Seca Help?

[MPower7]

Hello All,

Just did first track day at Thunderhill last weekend, i'm hooked. Like I need another expensive hobby. After one of the later sessions my rear drivers side brake (pad?) was smoking for 30 second after I parked (no ebrake, put it in gear). Any Ideas what that could be? During the run MDM mode did not come on once. I was braking 8/10 level.

I'm doing a track day at Laguna in a few weeks and Laguna is very hard on Brakes correct? Before the Thunderhill I had a Brake flush (non SRF Fluid) and Oil change. Pedal doesn't feel as good after the track day as before. Do I need a Brake Bleed, how can I tell? Also thinking of upgrading to Ferodo ds2500 before even though stock pads have ~10,000 miles according to sensor.

Though are greatly appreciated, thank you!

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by MPower7

Hello All,

Just did first track day at Thunderhill last weekend, i'm hooked. Like I need another expensive hobby. After one of the later sessions my rear drivers side brake (pad?) was smoking for 30 second after I parked (no ebrake, put it in gear). Any Ideas what that could be? During the run MDM mode did not come on once. I was braking 8/10 level.

I'm doing a track day at Laguna in a few weeks and Laguna is very hard on Brakes correct? Before the Thunderhill I had a Brake flush (non SRF Fluid) and Oil change. Pedal doesn't feel as good after the track day as before. Do I need a Brake Bleed, how can I tell? Also thinking of upgrading to Ferodo ds2500 before even though stock pads have ~10,000 miles according to sensor.

Though are greatly appreciated, thank you!

Stock brakes, pads, and rotors? You will overwhelm them quickly. If you have the right brake pad though you can do quite well. M3 Number 86 is the resident stock brake caliper expert. I have no idea how he manages, haha.

It sounds like you need a bleed. If you plan on making this a regular habit like many of us have, you may consider something like Castrol SRF. Some people prefer other fluid but choose to bleed more often.

SRF is by no means perfect but it lets me change it once per 15 or so track days with zero need to bleed on my brake kit. Might be different for stock calipers.

You are also right about Laguna being hard on brakes. I can go through a set of front brake pads in a couple days at Laguna - they'll last 5-6 days elsewhere.

[roastbeef]

it is common for the barrels of your wheels to collect rubber when tracking and then when you park, the rubber falls onto the rotors and melts. this might be where the smoke is coming from.

[NoCarrier]

If you're on stock pads you'll want to switch off of them ASAP. It's not just an issue of poor performance, soft pedal, and smoking. The real heartache comes when you overheat them too much and they start to leave uneven layers of pad material on your rotor. Then suddenly you have a "warped" rotor feel that shakes your confidence and isn't fun to drive with at the track, and is noisy and annoying around town. It's a real pain in the butt to get rid of the pad deposits and back to a normal feeling rotor.

I can't comment from experience on the ds2500 as a combined street/track pad. Combined-use pads vs. separate street and track pads is an argument for the ages. I ran a street/track pad on my e46 for years without too many issues. After getting my e90 and destroying the OEM pads and rotors in two track days, I decided it was time to get dedicated track pads.

[Z K]

Your rear pad smoking is because the car is applying the rear brakes to stabilize the car.

This is happening because you left it in MDM mode which leaves stability control on. You were probably driving very hard and it was applying the brake to keep you from breaking the rear end loose.

The traction control light will not always flash when it is applying the rear brakes in stability control. The traction light will only flash if you are breaking traction.

[roastbeef]

MDM almost always uses the front brakes.

[Z K]

Please see this past thread regarding MDM.

MDM will apply the rear brakes to control the car.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700150

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Z K

Please see this past thread regarding MDM.

MDM will apply the rear brakes to control the car.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700150

it uses the rear brakes in some instances, but 95% of the time, it uses the fronts. there is AIM data from track guys that prove it. i had a misunderstanding of the system at first as well. i'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to be accurate.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by MPower7

Hello All,

Just did first track day at Thunderhill last weekend, i'm hooked. Like I need another expensive hobby. After one of the later sessions my rear drivers side brake (pad?) was smoking for 30 second after I parked (no ebrake, put it in gear). Any Ideas what that could be? During the run MDM mode did not come on once. I was braking 8/10 level.

I'm doing a track day at Laguna in a few weeks and Laguna is very hard on Brakes correct? Before the Thunderhill I had a Brake flush (non SRF Fluid) and Oil change. Pedal doesn't feel as good after the track day as before. Do I need a Brake Bleed, how can I tell? Also thinking of upgrading to Ferodo ds2500 before even though stock pads have ~10,000 miles according to sensor.

Though are greatly appreciated, thank you!

Like redpriest said I use oem calipers and rotors. The only thing I have done is upgrade to SS lines, use SRF fluid (I've tried others and SRF just works no hassle), and the latest I've added titanium shims - but not sure if it does anything. I've never had to rebuild anything or mess around with anything on the brakes.

I've tried Carbotech XP12/10, XP10/8, PFC08, Hawk DTC 70, GLoc 10/10, and finally GLoc 12/10. I really like the GLoc 12/10 combination. Get quite a few days, don't eat rotors, don't fade, don't cause corrosive brake dust (I never wash my wheels but never had any problems when I've washed them - 3 times in the last year probably lol).

You can't expect the oem system to go for hot lap after hot lap after hot lap if you are an experienced driver but if novice they will do just fine. I do a warm up and then 3-5 hot laps in a row, but its more because of the tires and not the brakes. This weekend my brakes were smoking for about 2 minutes after I came in ha.

I think I can be a bit faster (lap times) if I've had bbk because of the consistency of them but I think I'm a pretty decent driver and haven't had to have bbk yet.

Look at that stock ass car I"m driving in my sig running faster than those race cars

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Z K

MDM will apply the rear brakes to control the car.

This is incorrect. 99% of the time, DSC uses the front brakes to control the car. Please read the following link. Using AIM Solo DL data, which can show you each individual brake caliper's activation, I demonstrated the behavior of DSC at 5 different California tracks. The laps are fairly fast laps, so I was pushing the car quite hard and there were plenty of opportunities for DSC to activate.

(In the AIM data, you will see where a caliper activates, but I didn't press the brake pedal. That would be DSC doing it's magic.)

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=27

[Z K]

Ok, I have no idea that it uses the front more. Reading threads is not very useful apparently.

I always run with DSC off. Never used it on track before so don't have personal experience with it.

[FogCityM3]

Ferodo DS2500s, SRF (or Endless brake fluid), and SS lines should be fine at your skill level. If want more pad durability at expense of noise, go with Pagid RS29s.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Z K

Ok, I have no idea that it uses the front more. Reading threads is not very useful apparently.

I always run with DSC off. Never used it on track before so don't have personal experience with it.

I've learned a lot on this forum. But sometimes you really just need data to see what's going on.

The AIM Solo DL has been an incredible device for doing analysis. You should see how long winded I got with AIM data on the topic of diffs!!

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I've learned a lot on this forum. But sometimes you really just need data to see what's going on.

The AIM Solo DL has been an incredible device for doing analysis. You should see how long winded I got with AIM data on the topic of diffs!!

And we all appreciate you taking the time to share it with us.

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by dogbone

This is incorrect. 99% of the time, DSC uses the front brakes to control the car. Please read the following link. Using AIM Solo DL data, which can show you each individual brake caliper's activation, I demonstrated the behavior of DSC at 5 different California tracks. The laps are fairly fast laps, so I was pushing the car quite hard and there were plenty of opportunities for DSC to activate.

(In the AIM data, you will see where a caliper activates, but I didn't press the brake pedal. That would be DSC doing it's magic.)

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=27

That's awsome info. I too thought that MDM used the rear brakes. In fact, my rears seem to wear about the same rate as my fronts which I thought reinforced that (I was using PFC 08 pads on OEM calipers).

[roastbeef]

I'm running oem rear rotors and calipers with pfc08 pads and they are lasting a long time. When they are done- rear bbk time. I'll likely be good until mid winter next year.

[ayao]

Are you running the 08s on the street too or just on track?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by ayao

Are you running the 08s on the street too or just on track?

I run all kinds of track pads on the street. Parking structures suck lol

[elim11]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

I run all kinds of track pads on the street. Parking structures suck lol

Because racecar. 24/7

OP: Welcome to the addiction. My only suggestion is to progress and get upgrades as you progress. I got a BBK for long-term economical reasons (or so I keep telling myself that) but the like #86 said, the stock system is pretty capable for most if set up correctly. Best of luck and this forum has a wealth of information. Just look at this thread. Tons of helpful people on here...most of the time.

[MPower7]

I appreciate the help. I went with SRF fluid ferodo and Stainless lines. Unfortunately I think there is a deposit on my front driver brake. If I press gently I don't feel anything but a firm pedal produces a feeling as if the pads are not contacting the rotor correctly. Will the new pads take care of this during bedding assuming it is a deposit?

[elim11]

Originally Posted by MPower7

I appreciate the help. I went with SRF fluid ferodo and Stainless lines. Unfortunately I think there is a deposit on my front driver brake. If I press gently I don't feel anything but a firm pedal produces a feeling as if the pads are not contacting the rotor correctly. Will the new pads take care of this during bedding assuming it is a deposit?

If your new pads are race pads aka abrasive, it will take care of the pad deposits. If not, you can swap in a set of full race pads and it will scrub them off.

Another option I've seen is there is a DIY on how to get rid of brake pad deposits. Look in the DIY section of this forum. That may help if you dont have access to track pads.

[NoCarrier]

All I say on scrubbing pad deposits is... don't give up!

Instructions will say you need to do ten hard braking passes or so. For me it was like 30 plus a week of regular street driving before they were really back to normal.

Sounds like yours aren't too bad though.