E92 vs. Cayman for Track

[Kevin G]

I imagine this has been discussed before, but would like to re-visit. Looking for a dedicated track car and wanting to spend $40K or less. So my current consideration set is:

PRIMARY
E90X M3
Cayman
Lotus Elise

SECONDARY
E46 M
Camaro ZL1
Corvette Stingray

Important points for me would be aftermarket upgrade potential, better handling than faster speed...

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[warp10]

Cayman

If going according to your list

[Richbot]

Cayman of those it's going to have the lowest running costs (assuming it doesn't blow up) and the best handling by a good margin. Cayman has too much brake and too much tire compared to the rest, which are all over-powered compared to their turny-stoppy capabilities, with the possible exception of the ZL1 but why would you inflict two tons of tire shredding 150mph at the end of every straight fun on yourself if you don't have to. Stingrays, I read and hear from a racer friend who has one, are not great track cars out of the box because, again, too much motor for the brakes and they're not light


The only reason to build a dedicated E9xM track car is because you are in love with the car IMO (which is a perfectly good reaosn, they're awesome cars and have lots of potential!). If it's a tool for a job, like lots of track time, get something else IMO

[SYT_Shadow]

The Stingray and the ZL1 will probably both overheat, and the ZL1 is really heavy.
The regular Stingray overheats happily on stock PSS tires which is a disgrace. Doesn't have strong brakes either.

If you have money for an E92, forget an E46. Despite what many say about weight, blah blah blah, the E92 annihilates the E46 on track. I've tracked both of mine consecutively for years and the difference -at equal mod levels- is so massive it hurts to think about it.

Between the E92 and the Cayman S, I would still pick the E92. I just bought an E90 to be a dedicated track car, although I admit I'm stricken by the wonderful music of the V8 on track.
Using the imperfect metric of what I see at Porsche Club of America track days, I am still waiting to see a truly fast Cayman S. Many will say 'driver skill', but if it is THAT hard to drive, what is the point?

In the lightning lap of its day the E92 handily beat the Cayman S as well.

[Richbot]

Put track pads on both and run them with two drivers who know what they're doing for 20 minutes and the Cayman S comes out ahead every time (at $40k we're talking 987.2 here) The Cayman can be driven at 10/10ths for an entire session straight out the box with track pads and the E92 just plain can't, it has to be nursed. But for people who dawdle a bit at 8/10ths which is almost all track day people, I agree the E92 is going to easier to faster in because it's got an extra 130hp (duh) . OP said handling is a priority though and once again, 500lb difference on similar tire size and 3" lower CG Cayman wins

[lcrain]

Elise or Cayman from that list. Mid-engine is where it's at. The steering you get from an elise or cayman will make the e9x feel dull and numb in comparison. If nothing else it will feel different from your current f80 m3. If cayman go for '09+ (987.2) for the dfi engine. The elise will have the cheapest running costs because it is so light.

If you have a means of getting it to the track, I would consider a spec boxster. Fits right into your budget and you can go right into competition when/if you feel inclined to do so.

[g2]

I've been debating the EXACT same thing. E92M3 coupe vs 987.2 CS. Although, there has been some forum posts that the CS runs hot and requires the 3rd radiator and a pdk cooler. I was told by bgb that the pdk cooler was needed on day1.

[///Mobbin]

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by g2

I've been debating the EXACT same thing. E92M3 coupe vs 987.2 CS. Although, there has been some forum posts that the CS runs hot and requires the 3rd radiator and a pdk cooler. I was told by bgb that the pdk cooler was needed on day1.

So my first DD/track-car was an '09 PDK C2S, brilliant machine that I wish I had kept longer. It definitely ran hot, 285F oil temps easily, but it ran and ran well even at those temps. Mine did not have the 3rd radiator and Porsche started adding them to PDK cars sometime the following year. Anyway, easy to add to a non-3rd radiator car, ECS even sells kits for this, LINK.

Before someone asks, I sold the car bc I wasn't tracking that often at the time, was about to have a second child (baby/infant seats don't fit well in 911's), wasn't into the DD comfort, and had repair expense anxiety. In hindsight I should have kept it but oh well. Really enjoying the M3 in dual duty now and I know I'll get another p-car one day. The newer cars are much more comfortable for dual use, older cars are more raw and perhaps more fun on track, individual preference no doubt.

Right now I am #1 on a list for an M2 CS, so that is likely my next stop.

[M3 Number 86]

i like my e90 because you can keep it tidy but then at the end of the day use it's 400hp to do some serious drifts

[roastbeef]

I've never encountered a cayman at the track (other than a stripped track car) that I was too impressed with. I'm sure in the right hands they are great, they just seem a bit down on power.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by g2

I've been debating the EXACT same thing. E92M3 coupe vs 987.2 CS. Although, there has been some forum posts that the CS runs hot and requires the 3rd radiator and a pdk cooler. I was told by bgb that the pdk cooler was needed on day1.

So maybe the Porsche isn't ready for 10/10 driving out of the box either...

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

i like my e90 because you can keep it tidy but then at the end of the day use it's 400hp to do some serious drifts

[///Mobbin]

^ Just like Chris Harris.

[admranger]

If you want to trailer a car, get the Elise (assuming you fit into that go cart). Visceral car w/all sorts of potential in the right hands. They are just too damn small to drive anywhere with all your track crap, let alone no one can see you and they don't appear to be all the comfortable for long drives to tracks, etc.

E9xM3 can haul extra set of wheels/tires, jack, tools, etc., etc., etc. but rod bearings and throttle actuators. Comfortable, fast, hoon-able, tons of bolt on go-fast parts. Will eat consumables at a fair rate, but they aren't terrible $$$.

E46M3 -- No. Thermal management, vanos, rear subframe, etc. all suck - yes, it's fun to drive but the Cayman is just as much/more fun w/o all the issues.

Cayman is the most pure driver's car with any creature comforts (sorry Elise), but unless you get a GT4 they can be slow in today's HP world. Just drop the 3.6 in an S model (kits exist) and you can go fa$$$$t. They just don't haul a lot of stuff and I believe they are a bit harder to work on given the mid-engine layout. Consumables are a bitch, $-wise too.

So get an E9xM3 and have fun!

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Richbot

hell yeah! can't do that in a cayman, as I imagine it just grips

[macdude357]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

hell yeah! can't do that in a cayman, as I imagine it just grips

Did you know he was behind you

[redpriest]

I've never been beaten on the track by anything other than a Cayman GT4. The stock Cayman or their drivers just aren't fast enough. I am not a fast driver.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by macdude357

Did you know he was behind you

Those were gnarly

[FogCityM3]

+1, this has been my experience as well.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

I've never encountered a cayman at the track (other than a stripped track car) that I was too impressed with. I'm sure in the right hands they are great, they just seem a bit down on power.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

+1, this has been my experience as well.

It's good to see I'm not the only one...

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I've never been beaten on the track by anything other than a Cayman GT4. The stock Cayman or their drivers just aren't fast enough. I am not a fast driver.

Don't be bashful, you're fast.

Gt4's are a crapshoot. It's largely dependent on the driver. I think a gt4 is a good competitor to the e9x m3. I find it sometimes difficult to keep up with a gt4, and other times they submit and let me pass after a short time behind them. They have to let me pass though, it's not like an on-demand Miata pass.

Other caymans... snore.