Can DHP really make the X5 feel like a sedan?

[samguan]

This is my second BMW, first one was a E93 convertible bought new. Never knew that BMW had individual options(never saw DHP as a checkbox, maybe I have to look deeper in the BMW builder), always thought that you add packages. I thought individual options are like a Porsche thing.

Anyways, I have the MSport and have the MSport adaptive suspension, the suspension really stiffens when I put into sports mode, I can take corners very aggressively and it handles pretty good but it doesn't feel like the E93, I still feel like I'm driving a SUV.

I've been browsing the web and seeing a lot of things about the DHP package and people are saying that it makes it drive like a sedan/car instead of SUV. I know I have to test drive it myself to feel it. Some people even make the comparison of handling to like M3.

Does it really make it drive like a car, for example like E93 335? Or is it more exaggerated which tends to be the trend on the internet where people describe things as "day and night difference". Can it really defeat physics and high center of gravity? If it will make the X5 drive the same like the M4/335 then I'm all in for my next purchase.

Next purchase I will ask for a test drive with DHP and feel for myself. Maybe I'm missing the ultimate driving experience after all these years.

[realsgy]

I have DHP. It does not make it feel like a 3 series, because you are still sitting higher and the car is heavier.

What it does it almost completely eliminates body roll and it is very hard to upset the car. A lot of cars, including the X5 on stock suspension, can take one corner hard, but if there is another turn in a different direction, or you have to make a correctional maneuver, you are in trouble.

DHP keeps the car stable and lets you set up for the next corner much quicker. I also tested how fast I can take an evasive maneuver (switching a lane then switching back) on the highway at 75 MPH and I was very impressed.

DHP also includes Torque Vectoring which is worth the price by itself, IMHO. With torque vectoring you can get back on the throttle so much sooner and you can feel it turning the car in, it's fun.

My only issue with DHP, esp. in sport is that it masks most feedback from the car. You don't know how far you have pushed the car; you take a corner with some speed and everything is fine, you try the same corner a little faster and the car slides out, no warning. So in this sense it is nothing like a sporty sedan, and you should not really push this SUV even if it feels like you could.

[TOPEC]

There is no way it can make a 5000lb SUV feel like a M3, no matter how good the suspension system is. It's just basic physics.

[kanvas]

Originally Posted by realsgy

I have DHP. It does not make it feel like a 3 series, because you are still sitting higher and the car is heavier.

What it does it almost completely eliminates body roll and it is very hard to upset the car. A lot of cars, including the X5 on stock suspension, can take one corner hard, but if there is another turn in a different direction, or yo have to make a correctional maneuver, you are in trouble.

DHP keeps the car stable and lets you set up for the next corner much quicker. I also tested how fast I can take an evasive maneuver (switching a lane than switching back) on the highway at 75 MPH and I was very impressed.

DHP also includes Torque Vectoring which is worth the price by itself, IMHO. With torque vectoring you can get back on the throttle so much sooner and you can feel it turning the car in, it's fun.

My only issue with DHP, esp. in sport is that it masks most feedback from the car. You don't know how far you have pushed the car; you take a corner with some speed and everything is fine, you try the same corner a little faster and the car slides out, no warning. So in this sense it is nothing like a sporty sedan, and you should not really push this SUV even if it feels like you could.

You're right on the money in the last paragraph. I have DHP and while it masks a lot of the weight, at a certain point, you can't defy physics. I have tested the limits of the DHP (in a safe manner) in roundabouts and freeway on-ramps and at a certain point I am reminded that I am driving an SUV. Again, it makes the driving experience more sporty by making the SUV feel flat around corners but there's only so much "weight-masking" it can do. To me, DHP is worth it.

[alphaod]

It supposedly makes it more poised, but won't defy physics. A sedan will always have the advantage.

[1230vani]

Heard a rumor that kids tend to throw up more in cars with DHP. Does not make sense to me, perhaps some of you have some experience? Current order has adaptive m suspension in it only. THinking of adding DHP and then be done with the order. Thanks for your inputs.

[ajob]

I would like to challenge the statement "you can't defy physics", repeated ad nauseam and implying that a SUV is intrinsically impaired vs a sedan in its roadholding qualities.

There are two ultimate limiting factors: rubber to road friction and the car overturning as the center of gravity projects outside of the outer wheels.

The first is equalized with wider tires (wider contact area with the same lbs/sq. inch pressure) and the overturning is usually far from being achieved before the tires lose grip - here DCP helps both SUVs and sedans by keeping the car horizontal.

The rest is driving perceptions and driver's effort; I agree that a higher driver's skill may be needed to reach the same limits on an X5 M than on an M3 (but many disagree), but these limits are not intrinsically different.

Finally, different car weights imply different engine power & torque to achieve the same acceleration (about equal for an M3 and an X5 M) and max speed is influenced by more drag in a SUV, again almost compensated by the SUV's higher engine power.

Comparing BMW M cars, with an X5 M you need more energy (and it therefore it costs more) but you will achieve similar handling results with respect to the other M models.

[iconoclast]

you're omitting ride height. tremendous factor. secondly the handling characterisitics of a sedan designed to carve corners like an m3 or m5 is going to outperform an suv even if it is incredibly equipped with all the suspension upgrades and wheels tires etc. there are just some things an suv can't do despite how much you want it to. i have owned an x5m, it is very nimble and quick for it's weight and size and ride height but the m5 handles better and can take similar turns at a higher rate speed than a performance suv. while i highly doubt many x5m will see the limits of their design i believe if you want the ultimate in practicality and performance you go with a wagon. s212 e63 would do everything an x5m could do on paper but it would do it in real world settings all while hauling your family and everyone's cargo.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by ajob

I would like to challenge the statement "you can't defy physics", repeated ad nauseam and implying that a SUV is intrinsically impaired vs a sedan in its roadholding qualities.

There are two ultimate limiting factors: rubber to road friction and the car overturning as the center of gravity projects outside of the outer wheels.

The first is equalized with wider tires (wider contact area with the same lbs/sq. inch pressure) and the overturning is usually far from being achieved before the tires lose grip - here DCP helps both SUVs and sedans by keeping the car horizontal.

The rest is driving perceptions and driver's effort; I agree that a higher driver's skill may be needed to reach the same limits on an X5 M than on an M3 (but many disagree), but these limits are not intrinsically different.

Finally, different car weights imply different engine power & torque to achieve the same acceleration (about equal for an M3 and an X5 M) and max speed is influenced by more drag in a SUV, again almost compensated by the SUV's higher engine power.

Comparing BMW M cars, with an X5 M you need more energy (and it therefore it costs more) but you will achieve similar handling results with respect to the other M models.

^^ I totally agree...

Here are some food for thought... Amazing how these behemoths can take on sports cars...

Looks to me that these SUV's defied physics and gave it the middle finger.

Sport Auto: New BMW X6 M just as fast as E92 M3 on Nurburgring

Source: http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/10/31/sp...3-nurburgring/

F85 X5M Pushes Gallardo and Vantage Track Times at PIR

Source: http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1255321

[iconoclast]

you're comparing vehicles that have nearly a decade of engineering between the two and nearly 60% more hp.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

you're comparing vehicles that have nearly a decade of engineering between the two and nearly double the hp.

Doesn't matter.. we are talking about sedan vs SUV...

These SUV's have incredible track times and apparently can handle just as good as sedans.

[iconoclast]

it does matter because it isn't a sedan from present day. a 2016 maxima can outperform a 70's ferrari. not exactly a fair comparo. what does the f80/f82 m3/m4 do compared to the x5m?

[Kzang]

My point is the X5M/X6M is carving corners just as fast if not faster than most sedans.. whether it is a 10 year old M3, or a 2017 Honda Accord...

[Chem14]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

it does matter because it isn't a sedan from present day. a 2016 maxima can outperform a 70's ferrari. not exactly a fair comparo. what does the f80/f82 m3/m4 do compared to the x5m?

Or the current M5?

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

it does matter because it isn't a sedan from present day. a 2016 maxima can outperform a 70's ferrari. not exactly a fair comparo. what does the f80/f82 m3/m4 do compared to the x5m?

According to this article http://www.topgear.com/car-news/moto...80%98ring-time
BMW M4 did the ring in 7m 52s, A Range Rover Sport SVR did it in 8m 14s as per article http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/10/31/sp...3-nurburgring/

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by Chem14

Or the current M5?

i was going by the e92 m3 comparison since that's what they used. compare it to an f82 m4 and there will be a greater disconnect but for all intents and purposes an f85 compared to an f10 m5 would probably be a more realistic comparison than anything else.

the end result is that the x5m both in e70 and f85 form are incredibly engineered and mask what they are very well but in the end they are still suv/sav.

Originally Posted by Kzang

BMW M4 did the ring in 7m 52s,

iirc the e92 m3 do the same ring lap in 8.1x seconds... either way we're in agreement they're great cars and suv my only disagreement is comparing it to sedans of yesteryear.

[UnhappySwede]

Its just basic physics. Larger items cant handle the same way as smaller ones. Think about a RC toy helicopter. It takes off fast and easly changes direction. Scale that same thing up to it's normal size and it is much slower, and equally fast maneuvering would, even if made possible with energy, break it apart.

Scale it up further to 100x the size of a normal helicopter, and it wouldn't even fly even if you increased power-to-weight ratio.

[ajob]

I respectfully disagree and consider most of the statements above wrong according to physical laws.

The main correct one is that a toy helicopter can sustain much higher angular accelerations due to its smaller moment of inertia. In our SUV-sedan comparison it would practically affect only slalom-type maneuvers - although for a given slalom course the width of the car is the only real key scaling factor here. (Try it!)

All the rest is exactly the other way round: the larger the helicopter, the easier and more efficiently it flies, for more than one aerodynamic and structural reason. This is true up to dimensions larger than the current largest existing helicopters, then, granted, other factors reduce the scaling advantage.

But let's go back to the key point of this discussion: there is no fundamental physical reason that forbids a SUV to equal the roadholding qualities of a sedan, but to achieve it, it will cost disproportionately much more - and it may therefore become economically unrealistic.

In my opinion, BMW made an adventurous bet when it decided to develop an "M-SUV", because market acceptance was difficult to forecast and the engineering investment was high, but they went ahead, had lots of in-house competence and, I submit, ended producing an extraordinary car, a concept now being copied by MB, Maserati, Bentley and the like.

[knepsterd]

Sorry I call bulshit no way no how a x5m is going to out slomom a sports sedan or coupe that is a Ferrari Maserati Porsche bmw M5/m4/m3 current models. I doubt it will out perform a Porsche Cayenne GTS Or Turbo--but maybe haven't seen head to head.

[UnhappySwede]

So there's no fundamental physical reason preventing a full size helicopter to maneuver and make changes in direction equally fast to a mosquito, except for cost?

A jumbojet could be made to maneuver equal to a fighter jet?

An oil tanker could be made to run like a jetski with decent engineering?

Width of car is only scaling factor in slalom driving? What if we mounted the X5's engine on the roof instead. Would that affect handling?

[kskpsu]

I have had an E53 4.8is, an E70 X5M, and an F15 50i M Sport w/ the rear air suspension. I've also had simultaneous ownership of "performance cars" with them. The notion these SUV/SAVs can handle the same is absurd. What they are good at is being top tier SUV/SAVs in handling dynamics. Track videos are just as good at highlighting variance in driver skill as they are in vehicle capability. More for entertainment value than anything.

Of my current lineup, the X5 is the worst handling car. It is still dang good. The Volvo Polestar is an example of why wagons should be more popular, but in America, we can't get over their stigma (comical considering some of these crossovers people want to believe is a legit SUV). It is 4,000 lbs, but has the center of gravity of a sedan, an amazing chassis (adjustable ohlins dampers), and will still crush a Costco shopping run of epic proportions.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by ajob

In my opinion, BMW made an adventurous bet when it decided to develop an "M-SUV",

much more so since the M division stated nearly word for word that they will never build an M suv or all wheel drive M product. so technically they didn't go against their original statement since they build an SAV but that is just semantics. LR was the first company to venture into the luxury suv market and pretty much is the first name that comes to mind when you mention it but then when BMW and LR merged BMW entered into the foray of luxury SUV using and sharing the technology and design they had with their acquisition. in the end they had the best of both worlds but sadly the acquisition was not profitable and i believe (not certain) bmw took a loss on LR and sold it off but they walked away with the underpinnings of a fantastic vehicle and it was a great start to what we are all familiar with now.