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      03-19-2014, 06:42 PM   #1
kevinmac
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328d racechip

couldnt find any real information on this. read a lot about people reading this and that about this and that, but not any first hand feedback.

still decided to order it. anyone on here already try it? i'm hoping i dont have to return it.
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      03-20-2014, 12:02 PM   #2
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You wanted an economical car, right ? You knew it had (by the virtue of good economy) limited performance, right ? And then you went aftermarket to try to up the performance.

If something goes wrong, after you have chipped your car, and if it can be detected by BMW, they will reject your warranty claim. That could include engine, turbo, intercoolers - even the gearbox, clutch, DMF, etc (after all, you are putting more BHP/torque in there). Or the exhaust. DPFs are horrendously expensive to replace.
If it is a lease car, then you will find yourself being liable for the repairs, the ongoing lease costs, all while you don't have a car to drive around in.
Then there is the insurance side. If you have a crash, and the chip is detected, then if you haven't told your insurance co. about it, then they would probably be justified in refusing any insurance claim.
The chip company will warrant their chip. However, that is very different to warranting that their chip will not damage any other part of your car. As far as I understand it, only 1 company will do that - but there is a huge price increase on the chip to allow for that. For the rest, the phrase 'cheap for a reason' comes to mind.

Basically, if you have a spare £5k or so, and can afford to pay for the repairs if needed, then go for a cheap chip option.
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      03-20-2014, 01:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
You wanted an economical car, right ? You knew it had (by the virtue of good economy) limited performance, right ? And then you went aftermarket to try to up the performance.

If something goes wrong, after you have chipped your car, and if it can be detected by BMW, they will reject your warranty claim. That could include engine, turbo, intercoolers - even the gearbox, clutch, DMF, etc (after all, you are putting more BHP/torque in there). Or the exhaust. DPFs are horrendously expensive to replace.
If it is a lease car, then you will find yourself being liable for the repairs, the ongoing lease costs, all while you don't have a car to drive around in.
Then there is the insurance side. If you have a crash, and the chip is detected, then if you haven't told your insurance co. about it, then they would probably be justified in refusing any insurance claim.
The chip company will warrant their chip. However, that is very different to warranting that their chip will not damage any other part of your car. As far as I understand it, only 1 company will do that - but there is a huge price increase on the chip to allow for that. For the rest, the phrase 'cheap for a reason' comes to mind.

Basically, if you have a spare £5k or so, and can afford to pay for the repairs if needed, then go for a cheap chip option.
This is overly alarmist in my view. Yes, if you have an as*hole for a service manager and an unreasonable insurance company this worst case scenario is possible--and even then it can be challenged. I have spoken to the service manager in my dealership (who will be installing an aftermarket piggyback module in my 328d) and he reiterated what the warranty actually does say--that if the aftermarket part can probably or reasonably be pinpointed as the cause of the damage then the repair costs of that damage are not covered. I gave him the example of carbon accumulation--which is not uncommon for non-modded diesel engines--and he said in that case the warranty would cover the work since the problem has been previously identified. I had the same conversation with my insurance company and they said the same thing. (What happens in practice of course may be different!)

To claim that you might be liable for transmission repairs because you've got the same amount of hp/torque as a 325d which is manufactured with the same gearbox and transmission is not realistic. It would be very hard for a manager or an insurance company to make the case for personal liability when BMW makes the same car with the same intercooler, transmission, DPF etc. with a differently tuned engine.

I don't know if kevinmac is planning to take his car to the nearest track and fry the sh*t out of it, but if he's anything like me he'll be using the extra power on the street for that occasional extra boost of acceleration when needed.

I can't speak to leasing because I stay away from that option like the plague--because you're driving around in someone else's car and you're holding the bag for any damage no matter what.

I'm not saying that there's no risk in modding your engine, but if you do it reasonably (stage 1 vs. stage 4) then the cost/pleasure ratio is in your favor. Check with your service manager before you indulge.
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      03-20-2014, 06:33 PM   #4
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You might say that an insurance company or service manager would be 'unreasonable' if they refused to cover modifications. I say that they are simply following reasonable business practices.

After all, if I jailbreak my iphone, and then it all goes belly up, do I have any reasonable case for Apple to be responsible for it ?
If I overclock my CPU, and it fries itself, can I really say Compaq or Intel are liable for a fix ?
If I'm shooting, and using super high-velocity homeloads, can I really come back on AI if I manage to blow a barrel up due to overpressure ?

The answer is no, in all of those cases. To make out that BMW (or the insurance co.) should be liable if you modify their product, and then it breaks - and if they can show, in any way, shape or form, that the modifications are to blame - and then to expect them to pick up the tab ... well, I don't think you've got much real experience of business, or real life.

You might WANT them to accept liability. However, unless you've got something down in black and white, with a signature accepting that no matter what mods you do to the car, they'll pick up the bill, then I'd take what has been said to you with a very large pinch of salt.

After all, if they accept liability for a 20 BHP tune, then the next person comes in with a claim on a 40 BHP tune, then a 60 BHP one .... and so on. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and they draw it at anything over 'stock' - unless they've fitted it themselves, as part of the PPK.
Same with an insurance co. If you wreck your car, they expect you to be driving a 173 (or whatever it is these days) 320d/328d. If it turns out that it's actually 250 BHP, then it's a considerably modified car. Once again, there has to be a limit drawn. BHP figures do vary on standard cars, but a modification is a clear alteration. And it's either been declared (and an additional premium paid) or it's not valid.
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      03-20-2014, 07:36 PM   #5
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Wtf?!
I was asking about first hand experience on product results. I know the risks, not sure how you thought I was asking if insurance would cover me or bmw would cover any repairs.
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      03-20-2014, 08:06 PM   #6
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robbiep--Perhaps we could continue this discussion on some other thread or some other time. kevinmac has accused us of and I would agree. You've stated your understanding of the situation and I've stated mine. Lots of people mod their engines under warranty and the number of horror stories like you describe are rare and usually due to over-the-top stupidity or bad luck.
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      03-20-2014, 11:43 PM   #7
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Wtf?!
I was asking about first hand experience on product results. I know the risks, not sure how you thought I was asking if insurance would cover me or bmw would cover any repairs.
Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing....
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      03-28-2014, 06:11 PM   #8
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Wow!! What a difference! The extra oomph I was looking for! Butt dyno says numbers are real...very satisfied with results!
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      04-01-2014, 05:26 AM   #9
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Which one did you get? The reg. Racechip, Racechip pro , or Racechip CR???
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      04-01-2014, 10:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiep View Post
You wanted an economical car, right ? You knew it had (by the virtue of good economy) limited performance, right ? And then you went aftermarket to try to up the performance.

If something goes wrong, after you have chipped your car, and if it can be detected by BMW, they will reject your warranty claim. That could include engine, turbo, intercoolers - even the gearbox, clutch, DMF, etc (after all, you are putting more BHP/torque in there). Or the exhaust. DPFs are horrendously expensive to replace.
If it is a lease car, then you will find yourself being liable for the repairs, the ongoing lease costs, all while you don't have a car to drive around in.
Then there is the insurance side. If you have a crash, and the chip is detected, then if you haven't told your insurance co. about it, then they would probably be justified in refusing any insurance claim.
The chip company will warrant their chip. However, that is very different to warranting that their chip will not damage any other part of your car. As far as I understand it, only 1 company will do that - but there is a huge price increase on the chip to allow for that. For the rest, the phrase 'cheap for a reason' comes to mind.

Basically, if you have a spare £5k or so, and can afford to pay for the repairs if needed, then go for a cheap chip option.
Wow. You didn't miss anything from this doom scenario. How do you dare crossing the street w/ such a positive attitude?
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      04-01-2014, 05:39 PM   #11
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I went pro2. I'm not trying to turn it into a racer, just needed out of the stock tune! Shifting a lot smoother and can finally feel some pull from a dead stop. Car def opens up a lot more when you punch it. Also, I still have it set on level 1 which coordinates to only a ~3psi increase over stock. I might increase level after running vehicle this way for some time first
...for $350, it's a cheap buy for the added pleasure driving!
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      04-02-2014, 05:21 PM   #12
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Good fun! Good choice! Enjoy.
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      04-03-2014, 02:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I went pro2. I'm not trying to turn it into a racer, just needed out of the stock tune! Shifting a lot smoother and can finally feel some pull from a dead stop. Car def opens up a lot more when you punch it. Also, I still have it set on level 1 which coordinates to only a ~3psi increase over stock. I might increase level after running vehicle this way for some time first
...for $350, it's a cheap buy for the added pleasure driving!
Thanks for the feedback. Good to hear of some local experience with some tuning for the 328d.

I also noticed on their website they mentioned about an option to increase MPG as well. That if you wanted this capability from the product to mention it when ordering. I believe they mentioned a maximum increase of 5mpg. Pretty large gains. Have you opted for this option? I would assume that when not using the turbo/ heavy throttle, the chip leans out the diesel fuel mapping to increase mpg. I have heard of certain deisel tuning products increasing mpg, just curious on the effectiveness of this product.

Once again, thanks for any and all feedback you have/can provide.
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      04-03-2014, 08:15 PM   #14
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I didn't ask about the Eco tune. I didn't even know about that, as it wasn't my main reason for buying.
I didn't have enough time to test mpg yet, and it would be wrong as I've been driving a little more "spirited" lately ) I also been punching it more than normal to see how the car is doing with the tune, so far so good and no codes thrown, no issues.
I need to monitor some specs but can't use the easy obdII plug ins as I have heard the piggyback will give false boost readings.
I will attach later their instructions on adjusting chip, it's something I still want to clear up with them. Supposedly if u turn cw it increases, but their next recommended level actually has me going cw on one but ccw on the other.
It was sent on E0, lvl 1 is D 1. I think I felt a little more boost but really need to see real, live data before playing anymore, would like to see temps also.
Where in SoCal u located? U got anything installed to monitor? any recommendation?
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      04-04-2014, 04:04 AM   #15
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Once again. Thanks for the feedback. Very Much appreciated. Local (US) participation specific to diesel tuning is almost non-existent for this car.

Unfortunately I am not in southern Cali! I am in Lousyiana!!!

I have been thinking about getting a 328d as I have been using my M5 as my company car which would usually be a good thing, but here lately I have been having to drive to Houston a lot. The 328d with a little extra spice would fit the mission perfectly. I drove one as a loaner while my M5 was being serviced and really liked the car. In leu of buying one I have been doing a little research on tuning. Years ago I lived in Europe where there was diesel tuning for just about any manufacturer everywhere. In fact, there were about equal diesel tuning to petrol vehicles. Unfortunately not here.

So your reporting here is very well received.

Keep it up...
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      04-04-2014, 11:38 PM   #16
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I'm glad you drove it because I was gonna say, it's no where near the fun of an m5 or m3 even with the tuning. I had an m3, and this 328d still isn't close to comparison even with the tune. I picked the 328d because this time I wanted something different! Never owned a diesel and their was something intriguing about trying to squeeze out some horses out of a 45mpg car. I really liked the 335d after test driving, but the interior was a little outdated for me, I really liked the f30 interior. Unfortunately they stopped production on the 335d! But word is, it's coming back, if you have time to wait? Not quite the same mpg, but it has some real torque out of the showroom.
I know what you mean with upgrades for the 328d, I searched and it's quite shameful how much is available for us here. Ppk isn't even available for us yet!?! I went with racechip, until I can go ppk. But, I'm really surprised of the very limited performance upgrades :/
Been really busy with work, but I'll post when I can get more info. We have a few cars so the 328d gets rotated in, I'm hoping to do a Vegas road trip soon to test mpg with my preferred tune, just "driving normal".
For a current baseline, I drive a lot of city less freeways and was getting ~37mpg stock, it's currently at 33mpg using the same routes but like I said, it's been heavily spirited driving)
When we did do longer trips with more freeway, I had it read in excess of 45mpg, at the end of the day, so I know it's great mpg is real....
I'm really tempted to jump the gun and do their top level tune soon, but we'll see, haha. But I have to reiterate, from stock, to the tune now, their is def a BIG difference in all modes especially, sport mode. I just have to make sure Eco mode still gets the 45mpg, if not more! lol
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      04-05-2014, 08:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovman View Post
Once again. Thanks for the feedback. Very Much appreciated. Local (US) participation specific to diesel tuning is almost non-existent for this car.

Unfortunately I am not in southern Cali! I am in Lousyiana!!!

I have been thinking about getting a 328d as I have been using my M5 as my company car which would usually be a good thing, but here lately I have been having to drive to Houston a lot. The 328d with a little extra spice would fit the mission perfectly. I drove one as a loaner while my M5 was being serviced and really liked the car. In leu of buying one I have been doing a little research on tuning. Years ago I lived in Europe where there was diesel tuning for just about any manufacturer everywhere. In fact, there were about equal diesel tuning to petrol vehicles. Unfortunately not here.

So your reporting here is very well received.

Keep it up...
Terry Burger at BMS offers a tune for the 328d, but it's the same JBD unit he's been offering all along for the E90 diesels. I don't like the idea of a piggyback that's generic to a bunch of different engines. I plan on going with a Kelleners Sport KS-20 sometime this summer. It raises hp to 218 and lbs-ft to 332 which is equivalent to the 325d tune in the rest of the world. KS is a lot ore expensive than the RaceChip or BMS (around $1500) but I believe their box is more sophisticated than the others, plus they've been working closely and exclusively with BMW engines for decades, on the street and on the track. KS piggybacks can be purchased in this country through BavarianAuto.com.
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      04-05-2014, 11:44 AM   #18
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Yes, I looked into the burger tuning first, and yes I wasn't impressed with that approach. As far as paying more for a piggyback, I don't see the reasoning behind it. I'm sure everyone has reversed engineered each other's maps and circuit boards, and it seems the only reason for me to spend more would be to get a full system like the ppk, at least bmw would even back that up.
A piggyback is still a piggyback, either way you look at it, and I'm satisfied with the way racechip has it tuned, but like I said, I don't plan on staying like this forever, hence the route I'm going.
I would rather have someone tune it on a dyno with their own custom maps, like my buddy is doing with his wrx at Cobb. I will try to talk to them next month when he visits them and see if they can do something custom for me, I'm praying:/
I'm still interested on your review with KS though, I'm sure you enjoy it, the 328d def begs out of the stock tune )
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      04-05-2014, 03:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by kevinmac View Post
Yes, I looked into the burger tuning first, and yes I wasn't impressed with that approach. As far as paying more for a piggyback, I don't see the reasoning behind it.I'm sure everyone has reversed engineered each other's maps and circuit boards, and it seems the only reason for me to spend more would be to get a full system like the ppk, at least bmw would even back that up.
A piggyback is still a piggyback, either way you look at it
, and I'm satisfied with the way racechip has it tuned,
I'm still interested on your review with KS though, I'm sure you enjoy it, the 328d def begs out of the stock tune )
I agree that "a piggyback is still a piggyback" if compared with an individual tune via dyno like Cobb does. I had a long debate with Terry on the German Boost forum about whether all piggybacks are created equal. It got pretty technical but I at least held my own, and Terry even agreed to lend me a JBD to do a comparative dyno vs. the KS-20 when I get it.

I don't believe that all piggybacks are the same on the inside with a different wrapper. The person to turn me on to this idea was Ictus in Moscow; he made a distinction between KS, Schnitzer, Hartge, Steinbauer vs. the others. If you look at the wiring diagram for the Kelleners Sport (or Schnitzer, or Steinbauer Performance, or Hartge) it is completely different from BMS or RaceChip or any of the others. If you look at page four of this link to Steinbauer http://www.steinbauer.cc/media/kb/in..._22_220531.pdf you'll see what I mean when you compare it to RaceChip for instance. When the hardware is so different you know that the data input/output will be different (greater in quantity and detail) so then you know that the software handling that data is going to be different/more sophisticated. KS describes their module as being a separate ECU that works with the OEM ECU rather than a more or less advanced resistor box. I can't say if that's marketing talk or not, but I don't plan to move on to an individual tune like you are, so I'm willing to take a chance and pay more, hoping that in this case "you get what you pay for".

This is in no way a putdown of RaceChip or BMS because I'll be paying 3-5x as much, so I would expect to have some improvement in quality or reliability. That may be a fantasy on my part, but I've decided to invest a bit more for a possibility of more reliable performance and/or safety for the engine.
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      04-06-2014, 01:45 AM   #20
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Most if not all boxes have processors, and theyre not just a resistor box.
Yes racechip connects to common rail and not individual injectors, but they all control the same parameters when it comes to performance increases.
I read somewhere that one of the piggyback companies will cover your power train from damage if bmw doesn't? Is that KS?
If you plan to shell out that much for a piggyback and plan to stay that way, I would research which company that was?
Either way, if and when, you do get KS, and if you can compare to the burger tuning that would be great info to share!
BTW: went to bavauto.com, and it came up empty for the KS for 328d?? Product Recall?
I might just have the website wrong?
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      04-06-2014, 08:46 AM   #21
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Most if not all boxes have processors, and theyre not just a resistor box.
Yes racechip connects to common rail and not individual injectors, but they all control the same parameters when it comes to performance increases.
I read somewhere that one of the piggyback companies will cover your power train from damage if bmw doesn't? Is that KS?
If you plan to shell out that much for a piggyback and plan to stay that way, I would research which company that was?
Either way, if and when, you do get KS, and if you can compare to the burger tuning that would be great info to share!
BTW: went to bavauto.com, and it came up empty for the KS for 328d?? Product Recall?
I might just have the website wrong?
The KS tuning modules have to be special ordered through BavAuto and are not listed on their website. You would need to call and speak to a sales rep.

AC Schnitzer comes with a warranty for injury to the powertrain and their module costs three times as much as KS!--around $4500. I believe that KS and Schnitzer (and Hartge and Steinbauer) have pretty much the same hardware inside the box but it's programmed differently for each one.

KS claims that its module works by extending the main injection time and not by increasing CR fuel pressure:

Quote:
The tuning principle for diesel engines:
Kelleners Sport additional engine control units for increasing power mainly influence the main injection time. The pre-injection and post-injection times are not affected because this would lead to a rough running. Consequently, the rail pressure remains unchanged when a Kelleners Sport additional engine control unit is fitted because increasing it would result in larger amounts of fuel being injected during the pre-injection and post-injection phases. Moreover, this would also increase the load on the fuel system, something that does not occur when a Kelleners Sport additional engine control unit is fitted.

Why an additional engine control unit?
The main advantages of Kelleners Sport additional engine control units are independence of the engine control unit itself and the ease with which they can be removed. If necessary, back fitting can be carried out just as quickly and easily as fitment. However, installation and removal should be carried out by qualified personnel. Kelleners Sport additional engine control units do not modify the engine control unit and are not identified by it. Therefore, no difficulties arise when the latter is readout during servicing or manufacturer software updates are installed. By contrast, traditional modifications to the engine mapping – flash solution or remapping – are lost if the dealer carries out a software update. This is one of the main advantages of a Kelleners Sport additional engine control unit.

Mileage:
No losses in terms of mileage are to be expected if the vehicle and, in particular, the engine are serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. The main mistakes made are to give the engine insufficient time to warm up from cold and no time to cool down after hard driving. Especially in the case of engines with turbochargers, it is very important to let the engine cool down after a hard run because, in the majority of cases, oil no longer lubricates and cools the turbo once the engine has been switched off. Consequently, the oil is likely to carbonise and the resulting residual matter can destroy the bearings. Careful use of the car and engine is very important in both standard and tuned form and is also recommended by the vehicle manufacturers.

Diesel particulate filters (DPF) and tuning:
A DPF is charged during running and, depending on the driving style, regenerated by increasing the exhaust-gas temperature from time to time. Naturally, this function also remains fully in effect when a Kelleners Sport additional engine control unit is fitted.

Fuel consumption:
There is no change in comparison to the standard values if the car is driven at lower revs. Kelleners Sport Supplementary engine control units only come into effect and change the electronic mapping when the engine speed rises into the higher rev band. Higher fuel consumption must always be expected if the car is driven hard simply because, to produce more power, the engine needs more energy. The degree to which fuel consumption rises depends on
the car and individual’s driving style.
How much time would you give the engine to cool down after a hard run? A minute or two? Also, I've read on these forums that warming up is not necessary, but they say it is.
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      04-07-2014, 02:28 AM   #22
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Drives: 2014 F30 328d
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern California

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Warm up before going hard should be considered and I've always done it by habit, normal operating temperature for everything. As for cooling down when you have a turbo is vital for longevity, they sell turbo timers that leave the car running for some time for a reason. I've always did a cool down for at least few minutes if I've driven a turbo car hard. The harder the longer...
AC 4500 huh? I see how they can cover power train. The cost includes your power train warranty! I wouldn't mind spending that kind of money, but for a chip tune? I think that's getting out of hand. Chip tuning has its limitations, as it's still a broad base tune, and every engine can perform differently. A dyno tune for that cost would be more respectable, but I've even seen it done for way less, problem is, our car is not common here for tuning....
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