Would the M1 really be worth the money?

[Rickster311]

Assuming the M1 is about $47,000, and a base 135i is $36,000, we are talking about a $11,000 difference.

The reality of it is we can get a 135i for under MSRP - lets say if you went 100% base, maybe $34,000? A M1 will be strictly MSRP or more..

So essentially we're talking about $13,000 difference.

For $13,000 - can't you mod a 135i into a M1 killer - and more?

$1,000 Vishnu/Proceed/Jb3
$3,000 Rims
$3,000 Bodykit (Aerokit, ect)
$2,500 Suspension
$500 Rixeffect Gauge
$500 Intake
$2,000 Exhaust

= $12,500 in modifications.

With all those, you'd be beyond 350hp, have a car that handled great, unique body styling, etc.

And even if you wanted to later buy the carbon fiber parts, I'm sure they would fit the 135i directly - which would cost additionally on the M1 anyways?

Just a thought.. but if the M1 is really 47k'ish - is it really justifiable spending the extra $11-13,000?

Thoughts?!

[PrimoM3]

Yes, not the point. Go buy a $5,000 car and put $20K in mods into it.

IMO, the list of mods you provided will likely not yield a better handling car. Looks are subjective, and then there is the warranty issue.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Rickster311

Assuming the M1 is about $47,000, and a base 135i is $36,000, we are talking about a $11,000 difference.

The reality of it is we can get a 135i for under MSRP - lets say if you went 100% base, maybe $34,000? A M1 will be strictly MSRP or more..

So essentially we're talking about $13,000 difference.

For $13,000 - can't you mod a 135i into a M1 killer - and more?

$1,000 Vishnu/Proceed/Jb3
$3,000 Rims
$3,000 Bodykit (Aerokit, ect)
$2,500 Suspension
$500 Rixeffect Gauge
$500 Intake
$2,000 Exhaust

= $12,500 in modifications.

With all those, you'd be beyond 350hp, have a car that handled great, unique body styling, etc.

And even if you wanted to later buy the carbon fiber parts, I'm sure they would fit the 135i directly - which would cost additionally on the M1 anyways?

Just a thought.. but if the M1 is really 47k'ish - is it really justifiable spending the extra $11-13,000?

Thoughts?!

This is the classic question--modding versus factory engineering, which is better?

Well yes, there are many ways out there that one could take a 135 and put it "on par" with the yet to be seen M1. With tune, suspension, tires, wheels, etc....you could definitely build a car that could perform at or above the stock M1 level....

But you also have a car in the 135 that has a different pedigree than what we expect the M1 to have...again, the M is about a different purpose than the regular line Bimmers, even those that are heavily modded. Not to mention the warranty and longevity issues....

I think that there is so much interest in the M1 amongst the 135/335/M3 community because there is obviously something missing from the current lineup....and for many of us, we hope the M1 will hit that spot nicely.....

[Jumpman]

Right. And then try to sell both cars and see how much of that 12k comes back, plus maybe folks would rather trust BMW to build all that into the car. So it's largely a question of preference. You can do get there, and for some that will be more attractive than buying the M. I think this is all basically true of the 3-series also, right?

[BBK]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

But you also have a car in the 135 that has a different pedigree than what we expect the M1 to have...again, the M is about a different purpose than the regular line Bimmers,

My issue is that the M1 looks to basically be a modified 135i. It's like BMW wanted a faster car, so they added parts to it. Just like a modified 135i owner would. Obviously BMW have a larger budget to make their own parts but I don't see it being much different. Both cars come from the same background.

In saying that, we still have very little idea (confirmed) on what it will have so I guess I'll wait till it comes out!

[DBFIU]

So go out and buy a toaster. Then invest 30,000 into it, and run 9 second quarter mile times and sub 8 minute nurburgring.

So in the end, yes you could turn a cheap 3000 dollar CRX into a 9 second car that would smoke a ferrari on the track. But at the end of the day you drive a CRX and he drives a ferrari.

[Robert]

I heard the M1 is going to be in the low 20s. Assuming that is true it completely invalidates your analysis. The point is too much unknown right now. One can easily twist the price point to make an argument.

To M or not to M has been in debate since the first M car debuted. Generally true that you can achieve M performance figures, (keyword, figures not experience) for lesser initial cost but how are peace of mind, reliability, warranty, and post modification tuning and maintenance accounted in the overall ownership cost. Back of envelope calculation simple don't account for these in the 12,500 figure. Also keep in mind that 12,500 is essentially sunk cost unless you find a particular buyer who wants the exact setup. M holds value better by few percentage points and is not accounted for in the $12,500 comparison as well.

[m3bs]

Originally Posted by Rickster311

$1,000 Vishnu/Proceed/Jb3
$3,000 Rims
$3,000 Bodykit (Aerokit, ect)
$2,500 Suspension
$500 Rixeffect Gauge
$500 Intake
$2,000 Exhaust

= $12,500 in modifications.

Thoughts?!

I don't believe BMW is going to produce a 1-series in any form that will be able to outshine the M3.

With the JB3 and suspension work alone on a base 135 I'd bet it would outrun and outhandle a factory M1 setup for half of that. BUT, it wouldn't have an "M" on the back.

[BMW86]

I'll only be envious of the M1's looks if they are any different. I'm 110% happy with this engine, I'm completely stock but a tuned N54 will be more than enough for me. If the M1 has a distinct wide body and nicely done M fenders and an aggressive hood I'll be jealous. Having said that I've already invested in some aftermarket cosmetic mods, lip, diffuser, skirts, wheels, spoiler etc. I can see some 135i owners tapping out on the M1 simply because they already have the car. This would probably include myself. I'd rather mod my 135i over time and enjoy it and learn more about modding. If I was on the market for a car today I'd hold off and get the M1 though.

But seriously, after doing the math, why wouldn't you pick the M1 over a modified 135i? The 135i can be made into an animal but with the M1 it's already done for you backed with a warranty by BMW. It will be on a whole new platform. I think the M1 will share significnant bridges with the M1, I highly doubt it will be forgetten. I expect to see just as many M1 v 135i reviews as M1 v M3 reviews because the 135i is such a great car with arguably one of the best FI6 engines in quite some time.

Anyone in the know can make a 135i better but that's not the point, I think for many the M1 will strike a chord for being what it is and what it is capable of. I don't think this is the first time a car manufacturer has had car lower in the hierarchy being so close in power and value to it's more expensive sibling.

[grant]

The 3 things that I anticipate with most excitement with the M1 are not easily retrofitted to the 135i:

1. Carbon Fiber roof instead of the compulsory sun roof glass and steel roof (too heavy and robs headroom).

2. Electronically controlled M Differential (yes, there are aftermarket diffs, but I expect the M diff to be better integrated into the chassis tuning).

3. Better steering feel. Not sure the M1 will deliver here, but I hope so. Aftermarket suspension can offer better handling, but steering feel is achieved through steering rack, bushings, power assist tuning, etc.

Power is cheaply added to the 135i, but I think that there's much more to the M1 than that.

I also expect the additional cooling of the M1 to allow more tuning headroom than with the 135i.

[grant]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I don't think this is the first time a car manufacturer has had car lower in the hierarchy being so close in power and value to it's more expensive sibling.

In the late 80's, the Porsche 944 Turbo S was considerably faster than a more expensive Carrera (with WAY more tuning potential too).

I've had two of them (bougyht used) - great performers for the money (lousy resale value - can buy them for a song now).

[m3bs]

Now, if the M1 were to come with the normally aspirated V8 from the M3 I could get interested, even if it wasn't faster in the 1/4 than a pumped up N54.

[grant]

That would be very cool. Unfortunately, that engine is not efficient enough for things like CAFE and emissions standards, so it can't happen. That's why the next M3 will have an inline-6 again.

How much does the S65 weigh compared to the N55?

[Ramos]

Your mod list to make a 135 into an M1 killer is very lacking

$2500 in suspension?? really, try $5K + another $3K for LSD
Also, how about cooling? You forgot the much needed Intercooler and bigger capacity oil cooler...

In reality, you are in fact looking at $20K in mods to build that M1 killer, so just save your time and energy, and buy the one that has the warranty

[amdmaxx]

This topic should be merged with M1 vs competition.
$50k opens up a lot of doors for cars, new and slightly used..
I'd personally wait for a few professional reviews before resuming this topic.

[TunedM2C]

OK, now go back and add another $600 to the price of the M1 for a JB product. How do the two "tuned" cars compare now?

[Jaguar66]

!

[titancrusher1]

If/When BMW releases the M1, it's going to be bye bye M3 for a lot of Bimmer enthusiasts....

I'm SOOO waiting for that day when they announce an NA release

[///Mike135i]

You guys over the pond are lucky as it is. The price I paid for my AW 135 from the UK dealer equates to about $60K. Would that get me an M3 in the States?

[esscolab]

It's all speculation, we know sweet FA about this car right now, we can only guess. I'm keeping quiet until at least the concept is out there for us to base our judgments on.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///Mike135i

You guys over the pond are lucky as it is. The price I paid for my AW 135 from the UK dealer equates to about $60K. Would that get me an M3 in the States?

It would get you an ///M3--just wouldn't be a lot on it.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by RobMason

Is it justifiable to spend the extra money? Only if you would rather have an M1 than a modified 135i. These types of threads are a bit silly.

+1