[homeryen88]

Hello Forum Mates and Audiophiles -

I've read through many hours of posts within the Audio-related threads (here and on various other BMW forums). I most appreciated those contributors who have provided fact-based data on the topic of upgrading the HIFI (S676A) system.

May I ask for your recommendation(s) as I am just turning my attention to upgrading my HIFI system. My audio components are still stock in my F30.

PLEASE - MY APPROACH IS TO KEEP MY BUILD/UPGRADES AS PLUG-AND-PLAY (PNP) AS POSSIBLE. While I understand that there are excellent examples out there of creative approaches (recommendations for various amplifiers that require a different mounting solution, addition of trunk woofer, augmenting enclosures, etc...), I kindly ask that you do not recommend anything other than a PNP option.

ALSO keep in mind that that my car has the HIFI system. If you are looking to upgrade from whatever premium system you have, you may wish to start a new thread for that. Thank you in advance!

My approach could be viewed as a little bit sideways, but this is why I'm hoping you'll lend me your wisdom:

Step #1: Earthquake SWS-8Xi 8-inch Underseat Woofers.
One product where there seems to be unanimous approval (as well as supporting data) is upgrading the stock underseat woofers to the Earthquake SWS-8Xi. So, I'd like to get these as my starting point. You can find them on Amazon for $250 for a pair, which makes them a compelling purchase! That's 50% less expensive than any of the other brands that have been mentioned throughout the forums. If you own these, may I ask if these are basically "drop-in" units or would I need to buy something else (install accessories) off of the Earthquake website?

I see that this product has a 160 watt/RMS rating @ 2 ohms.

Now, from another thread (this one: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=975512), I see that the OEM amp has an output of just 40 watt/RMS @ 2 ohms. So, I'll need to then upgrade the OEM amp (based on the various articles/educational vlogs on matching amps with speakers).

STEP #2: MAY I ASK:
Which PNP amp would you recommend? I only know of two options: Revenant and Match Up 7BMW (I think these are the only two that would generate enough power - 160 watts/RMS @ 2 ohms). The BimmerTech amp has a rating of 70 watts/RMS @ 2ohm, so this doesn't seem like it would be able to generate enough juice to power the Earthquake SWS-8Xi). Are there other PNP amps out there or is Revenant and Match the only players (to be able to power the Earthquake with the higher RMS @ 2 ohms)?

I'll just start with upgrading these components and go from there.

Step #3: Looking into the future, MAY I PLEASE ASK:
I've read differing opinions on upgrading the Central (dashboard) speaker while others say to delete it. If I decide to upgrade the speakers, what is your recommendation on the Central speaker. Upgrade it along with the others as it helps with the "soundstage" effect? Keep it stock as is and save my money because it doesn't really do anything? Unplug it as many forum contributors have done?

Step #4: If I DECIDE TO ALSO REPLACE THE REAR DOOR SPEAKERS / FRONT DOOR SPEAKERS / FRONT DOOR TWEETERS AT SOME POINT
Staying with the PNP approach, can you make a technical recommendation as to which of these speaker brands would be a justifiable purchase / provide good return on investment, if any (or just keep stock speakers given nominal improvement in your opinion)? I'm sure it has something to do with RMS vis-à-vis "efficiency" vis-à-vis some other factor, but I don't really understand the calculus here.
- Match
- BimmerTech
- BavSound
- Focal
- another brand that's PNP for the F30?

Many thanks for sharing your "sound" advice!

[chowser51]

I couldn't find a Match on sale so I got the Revenant. Started with it and decided it was great and I didn't need to upgrade my speakers.

Plenty of threads on the Match.

[pierreye]

Revenant = Match UP 7BMW with lock configuration. I'm not sure if Bavsound had unlocked it in year 2020 but I wound't get it if it's still lock. In the future, if you are upgrading your speakers to other brand, you can't do the tuning or load other 3rd party tune profile.

[SMiGGs]

Im very interested in this thread, i would like to take the same approach! Subbed.

[chowser51]

Yeah the revenant has two settings. Stock speakers or bavsound speakers. Mine’s stock. I’m giving the car to my daughter eventually so she doesn’t need the better sound. Flashing it back to stock as well and moving the bm3 to my next car too. Lol

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by homeryen88

Staying with the PNP approach, can you make a technical recommendation as to which of these speaker brands would be a justifiable purchase / provide good return on investment, if any (or just keep stock speakers given nominal improvement in your opinion)? I'm sure it has something to do with RMS vis-à-vis "efficiency" vis-à-vis some other factor, but I don't really understand the calculus here.
- Match
- BimmerTech
- BavSound
- Focal

Technically speaking, none. If any had real data to support the claims that they're better than stock my opinion might be different, but they don't. It would be a different story if the OEM speakers were cheap junk, but they're not. For instance, with the H-K system you can buy one complete set of replacement speakers for $900, another for $1200. The $1200 speakers must be better, right? Maybe, maybe not. The $900 speakers are the Bavsound. The $1200 speakers are the stock H-K.

The SWS Earthquake is a worthwhile replacement if you want to have lower bass without going to a trunk mounted sub. It does require more power, because the inevitable trade off to get lower bass is reduced sensitivity. This thread shows how to do it. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1701394

[Diirek]

Originally Posted by homeryen88

Hello Forum Mates and Audiophiles -

I've read through many hours of posts within the Audio-related threads (here and on various other BMW forums). I most appreciated those contributors who have provided fact-based data on the topic of upgrading the HIFI (S676A) system.

May I ask for your recommendation(s) as I am just turning my attention to upgrading my HIFI system. My audio components are still stock in my F30.

PLEASE - MY APPROACH IS TO KEEP MY BUILD/UPGRADES AS PLUG-AND-PLAY (PNP) AS POSSIBLE. While I understand that there are excellent examples out there of creative approaches (recommendations for various amplifiers that require a different mounting solution, addition of trunk woofer, augmenting enclosures, etc...), I kindly ask that you do not recommend anything other than a PNP option.

ALSO keep in mind that that my car has the HIFI system. If you are looking to upgrade from whatever premium system you have, you may wish to start a new thread for that. Thank you in advance!

My approach could be viewed as a little bit sideways, but this is why I'm hoping you'll lend me your wisdom:

Step #1: Earthquake SWS-8Xi 8-inch Underseat Woofers.
One product where there seems to be unanimous approval (as well as supporting data) is upgrading the stock underseat woofers to the Earthquake SWS-8Xi. So, I'd like to get these as my starting point. You can find them on Amazon for $250 for a pair, which makes them a compelling purchase! That's 50% less expensive than any of the other brands that have been mentioned throughout the forums. If you own these, may I ask if these are basically "drop-in" units or would I need to buy something else (install accessories) off of the Earthquake website?

I see that this product has a 160 watt/RMS rating @ 2 ohms.

Now, from another thread (this one: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=975512), I see that the OEM amp has an output of just 40 watt/RMS @ 2 ohms. So, I'll need to then upgrade the OEM amp (based on the various articles/educational vlogs on matching amps with speakers).

STEP #2: MAY I ASK:
Which PNP amp would you recommend? I only know of two options: Revenant and Match Up 7BMW (I think these are the only two that would generate enough power - 160 watts/RMS @ 2 ohms). The BimmerTech amp has a rating of 70 watts/RMS @ 2ohm, so this doesn't seem like it would be able to generate enough juice to power the Earthquake SWS-8Xi). Are there other PNP amps out there or is Revenant and Match the only players (to be able to power the Earthquake with the higher RMS @ 2 ohms)?

I'll just start with upgrading these components and go from there.

Step #3: Looking into the future, MAY I PLEASE ASK:
1. I've read differing opinions on upgrading the Central (dashboard) speaker while others say to delete it. If I decide to upgrade the speakers, what is your recommendation on the Central speaker. Upgrade it along with the others as it helps with the "soundstage" effect? Keep it stock as is and save my money because it doesn't really do anything? Unplug it as many forum contributors have done?

Step #4: If I DECIDE TO ALSO REPLACE THE REAR DOOR SPEAKERS / FRONT DOOR SPEAKERS / FRONT DOOR TWEETERS AT SOME POINT
Staying with the PNP approach, can you make a technical recommendation as to which of these speaker brands would be a justifiable purchase / provide good return on investment, if any (or just keep stock speakers given nominal improvement in your opinion)? I'm sure it has something to do with RMS vis-à-vis "efficiency" vis-à-vis some other factor, but I don't really understand the calculus here.
- Match
- BimmerTech
- BavSound
- Focal
- another brand that's PNP for the F30?

Many thanks for sharing your "sound" advice!

I purchased and installed the Match Up 7BMW amp a week ago. I loaded the "limousine" profile from AF's website meant for an F30 sedan. Right off the bat, the sound quality was much clearer. I was however disappointed with the lower end frequencies during some playback. The base was "punchy", but shallow.

I've ordered a set of the Earthquake undserseat woofers (2ohm) with the technic pnp mounting rings. I should have everything by this weekend for installation. I will report back on y results!

[J555]

Originally Posted by homeryen88

- another brand that's PNP for the F30?

Audison. They offer many options for building your setup, from amp or amp+dsp, two-way speakers with crossovers, coaxial speakers, harnesses, cables, remotes... hassle-free, everything PnP, everything designed and tuned to work in the specific car together. Well-known for the sound quality, but also for the superior quality of manufacturing.

Listened to the car upgraded from HiFi to this configuration https://www.audison.eu/spc-kit/?kit=...=17&y=5&type=4 and the sound was really great. The AP8.9bit has enough power (you can bridge the channels for underseat woofers) and still keeps one channel left for adding the trunk sub easily. Still, they offer a more powerful AP F8.9bit with DSP...

Listened to Audison and Focal speakers side-by-side and Audison would be definitely my choice... Anyway, I recommend listening to your options before buy, your personal taste is what matters .

[Diirek]

Originally Posted by Diirek

I purchased and installed the Match Up 7BMW amp a week ago. I loaded the "limousine" profile from AF's website meant for an F30 sedan. Right off the bat, the sound quality was much clearer. I was however disappointed with the lower end frequencies during some playback. The base was "punchy", but shallow.

I've ordered a set of the Earthquake undserseat woofers (2ohm) with the technic pnp mounting rings. I should have everything by this weekend for installation. I will report back on y results!

Quick update:

I'm still waiting on the woofers to show up but the technic pnp speaker rings showed up yesterday. They appear to be 3d printed and are rather rough around the edges but looks like they'll work as intended.

On another note, I do have a Bimmertech MMI Prime unit that adds Carplay and Android Auto functionality. The unit connects through the main HU quadlock connector and uses the auxiliary source for audio. Many have complained about reduced sound quality but in my experience sound is improved over the bluetooth connection.

An advantage here is that the unit has a built-in equalizer to tweak sound settings to my liking. The equalizer only affects music being played through the interface, so the radio can only be controlled through the tone options in the iDrive.

I was able to drop the frequencies between 140hz and 360hz and the drastically changed the characteristics of the underseat woofers. The low frequencies are much clearer and make for a better listening experience all around. I'm by no means an audiophile, but this did seam counter intuitive to me at first but hey, it sounds good.

[Billfitz]

I'm curious how you dropped 140-360Hz in the underseats. They shouldn't be doing much in that range anyway. Mine are down -25 to -30dB in that pass band with a stock Hi-Fi setup.

[Diirek]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I'm curious how you dropped 140-360Hz in the underseats. They shouldn't be doing much in that range anyway. Mine are down -25 to -30dB in that pass band with a stock Hi-Fi setup.

These are the EQ options I have (stock photo from the manf). When I lower the frequencies mentioned, it's for the whole sound source, not just in the woofers.

Before I made these changes, it sounded like the subs were trying to do too much? Or maybe it was the door speakers? Hard to distinguish. The bass of a kick drum was super "poppy" - almost distracting. The higher bass frequencies sounded strained, while overpowering the lower frequencies.

I have not messed with the amp settings other than loading in the limousine profile - but with these adjustments the listening experience is better for me at all volume levels.

[Billfitz]

It should have been the door speakers that were overtaxed. Assuming the amp crossovers are set correctly there shouldn't be any audible output in that range from the underseats.

[homeryen88]

As I continue to gather info, I'll post up new tidbits that you might find pertinent. This entry pertains to an email exchange that I had with both BimmerTech and Bavound about their made-for-BMW audio systems.

My questions to both of them:
1. While I see some power specs listed for your amplifier, I don’t see any for your 4 ohm mid-range speakers (for the front and back doors plus the center dash speaker) and your 2 ohm underseat woofers. Can you tell me what are their power ratings (RMS/watts and sensitivity)?
2. Can you talk a little bit about the selling point of your amp?


ANSWER FROM BIMMERTECH:
Let me break it down and put it in easier to understand wording because honestly, I’m not a sound engineer and its complicated to me as well. LOL.

So our speakers/amp are designed to be an OEM+ option. Meaning they work with the factory iDrive system, they fit into the same housings and use the same wiring as the OEM options, you get around 30-40% more power with the set up and overall the quality is much higher than the OEM hardware. Resistance is going to be dependent on what the vehicle needs and can use with the system that it has. So don't think of it as an extreme high end system with earth shaking bass, think of it as a more refined OEM option, much higher quality, truly built to last and perform the way an audio system in a BMW should!


ANSWER FROM BAVSOUND:
Tweeters:
-----------------
Size: 25mm
Material: Silk Composite
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Frequency Response: 4,000Hz - 20,000Hz
Power Handling (RMS): 22W
Sensitivity: 96dB +- 2dB at 1m with 1W input

Midranges:
-----------------
Size: 100mm (4")
Material: Woven Fiberglass
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Frequency Response: 500Hz - 4,000Hz
Power Handling (RMS): 40W
Sensitivity: 84dB +- 2dB at 1m with 1W input

Midbass:
-----------------
Size: 130mm (5.25")
Material: Woven Fiberglass
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Frequency Response: 80Hz - 500Hz
Power Handling (RMS): 40W
Sensitivity: 73dB +- 2dB at 1m with 1W input

Ghost Subwoofers:
-----------------
Size: 200mm (8")
Material: Woven Fiberglass
Impedance: 2 Ohm
Frequency Response: 40Hz - 200Hz
Power Handling (RMS): 100W
Sensitivity: 73dB +- 2dB at 1m with 1W input

These specs are very, very similar to the factory components so that our replacements can work with the factory amplifier. The thing to understand is that speaker specs with car audio aren’t really very revealing in this context.

Speakers in this case are a lot like shock absorbers or springs -- they do have some specs in terms of how they behave, but that won’t tell you much because they operate in a dynamic way based on the inputs they’re getting (either from the road or the amplifier). The biggest difference between our speakers and factory come from two main areas:
1. Much improved speaker materials, such as going from plastic tweeter domes and paper speaker cones to silk and woven fiberglass. This means much more smoothness, life, and detail during the reproduction of music.
2. Much improved mechanical design. By changing the configuration and design of the suspension and motor structure of our speakers, we’ve made them much more linear with far less distortion than the factory speakers. That means more accurate reproduction of music.

Amp:
There's no need to program the Revenant amp, we've had it professionally tuned by 5 audio engineers working on it for over a week to create a beautiful soundstage and impeccable tunes. As you can see from our specs, the 4 Ohm speaker impedance is compatible with the amp as well as the 2 Ohm impedance for the underseat woofers.

The amp has two tunes, one for stock speaker systems (green light) and one for upgraded Bavsound speakers [or other premium speakers but amp is specifically tuned for Bavsound speakers] (amber light). It is just a button on the amp that you hold down for 2 seconds and it switches between the two tunes. It takes a second for the light to change from green to amber. ***Do Not hold button for longer than 8- 10 seconds! it will reset the amp and then it will not work***


MY TAKE:
$1,000 is no small investment, even for a high-quality amp. For me, the BimmerTech response is quixotic if not evasive. That’s kind of a dealbreaker for me. And that’s too bad. I know forum members like their products, and I do subscribe to their video channel. But, transparency is key here.

BimmerTech pricing is:
Amplifier: $899
Underseat woofers only: add +$558
All other speakers and front tweeters: add +$593
Total System: $2,050

Bavsound pricing is:
Amplifier: $997
Underseat woofers only: add +557
All other speakers and front tweeters: add +557
Total System: $2,111

From a pure customer service point of view, I’d rather invest the extra $100 (amp only, but note that the entire system is only $50 more for Bavsound vs BimmerTech) for more forthright customer service.

Moreover, the power specs of these two amps are published on their websites:
BimmerTech amp:
55 RMS Watts for the 4 ohm channels (all speakers and tweeters)
70 RMS Watts for the 2 ohm channels (underseat woofers)

Bavsound amp:
65 RMS Watts for the 4 ohm channels (all speakers and tweeters)
160 RMS Watts for the 2 ohm channels (underseat woofers)

Comparing these specs, the Bavsound amplifier gives you more power, thereby (but please have a sound engineer on this forum correct me if I'm making an incorrect statement) allowing you greater latitude in shopping for speakers and subwoofers if you want something other than Bavsound speakers. At 70 RMS (BimmerTech), there are probably less options from which to chose.

[chowser51]

listen to Billfitz. He does audio for a living.

[Billfitz]

The higher power of the Bavsound amp, especially with respect to the woofer channels, is a plus. That said, the best single improvement will be had from an amp that has a fully adjustable DSP EQ, with at least 15 bands of EQ adjustment. The lack of that capability is the main shortcoming of the stock amps. The information given about the speakers from both Bimmertech and Bavsound is advertising copy only. There is no useful engineering data. These pages contain actual engineering data:

https://www.parts-express.com/8-glas...-ohms--292-494
https://www.parts-express.com/4-glas...odels--292-490

It's that data that engineers use to compare different speakers, not advertising platitudes.

[pierreye]

Originally Posted by Diirek

These are the EQ options I have (stock photo from the manf). When I lower the frequencies mentioned, it's for the whole sound source, not just in the woofers.

Before I made these changes, it sounded like the subs were trying to do too much? Or maybe it was the door speakers? Hard to distinguish. The bass of a kick drum was super "poppy" - almost distracting. The higher bass frequencies sounded strained, while overpowering the lower frequencies.

I have not messed with the amp settings other than loading in the limousine profile - but with these adjustments the listening experience is better for me at all volume levels.

Do not touch the EQ and tone control in iDrive if you are using UP 7BMW. Use the DSP settings in Amp to fine tune the sound. It will affect all sound source. Are you using stock Hifi sub? It wouldn't play loud and lack of mid bass punch. Also, 4" driver normally are good down to 200hz. If you have better driver, you can try 180hz. Try LR4 low pass 180hz for woofer and 180hz high pass for speakers. Nothing much you can do for tweeter as the high pass first order is done by the capacitor in series with the tweeter. If you want to get better performance between mid and tweeter, you need 2nd order or higher crossover between tweeter and mid. What's the freq to cross would depends on the mid driver and tweeter.

@homeryen88 - Both Bavsound and Bimmertech are rebranded Audiotec Fischer DSP amp. Just different model. Bavsound using UP 7BMW and Bimmertech is PP 86DSP.

[Diirek]

Originally Posted by pierreye

Do not touch the EQ and tone control in iDrive if you are using UP 7BMW. Use the DSP settings in Amp to fine tune the sound. It will affect all sound source. Are you using stock Hifi sub? It wouldn't play loud and lack of mid bass punch. Also, 4" driver normally are good down to 200hz. If you have better driver, you can try 180hz. Try LR4 low pass 180hz for woofer and 180hz high pass for speakers. Nothing much you can do for tweeter as the high pass first order is done by the capacitor in series with the tweeter. If you want to get better performance between mid and tweeter, you need 2nd order or higher crossover between tweeter and mid. What's the freq to cross would depends on the mid driver and tweeter.

@homeryen88 - Both Bavsound and Bimmertech are rebranded Audiotec Fischer DSP amp. Just different model. Bavsound using UP 7BMW and Bimmertech is PP 86DSP.

I have a set of Earthquake underseat woofers on the way. Once I get those installed I'll clear all of the EQ and tone adjustments in my iDrive and dive into the amp settings on my laptop. Do you know if there is a sound profile floating around and that I can load in and use as a base to start playing with? I don't have a mic and will be tuning by ear.

[Billfitz]

If you don't use the OEM H-K amp the EQ in iDrive doesn't do anything, as the DSP is in the amp, not the HU.

[Kevin @ Integral Audio]

homeryen88 For an F30 with HIFI, you will not find a better value than our original analog Soundstage™ - https://integralaudio.com/soundstage...eries-f3x.html. It will far outperform the other options you're looking at, and is massively discounted to $999 as we clear them out (being replaced by newer product lines).

I'm currently working remotely near Bethesda, MD, not far from you. Come take a listen.

[homeryen88]

@Billfitz - may I ask from a technical standpoint and since you've seen the specs … which would be the better 2 ohm underseat woofer?
Would it be the GRS B200-2 (rated @ 100 RMS/watts) that you referenced above (from www.parts-express.com)? Or would it be the Earthquake SWS-8Xi (rated @ 150 RMS/watts)? Let's go with the assumption that one would upgrade the amplifier to match power properly.

In addition to these two having some engineering data for all to see, I ask about these two specifically because they are also similarly priced and several HUNDRED dollars less than the other options that were mentioned thus far.


Thank you, @ Kevin/Integral Audio. I promise to review your products. Your brand is new to me, and I love learning new things.

[Billfitz]

The Earthquake, by a good margin. The wattage rating, BTW, is one of the least important specs. The lower Fs of the Earthquake is one of the factors that allows it to go lower, while the higher X-max of the Earthquake allows it to do so with less distortion.

[Diirek]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

If you don't use the OEM H-K amp the EQ in iDrive doesn't do anything, as the DSP is in the amp, not the HU.

I was referring to the EQ in my mmi prime unit.