[BGREWAL]

Hey Guys!

I know there are multiple threads on this topic, but I'm a newbie at this stuff, and kinda need step by step guidance. I'm looking to upgrade the sound system in my car, currently a 435i X-drive with the HK upgrade. I want loud bass; however, not sacrificing quality. I heard of the Bavsound speaker upgrade, but I believe that the reviews say the difference is not worth the money. I'm looking at replacing the underseat subs and instaling a trunk sub, as well as replacing the speakers, if there is a great difference. In short, I just want the best, somewhat affordable, aftermarket sound system in the car.

Thanks Guys, sorry if this sounds somewhat immature lol

[Billfitz]

Big bass requires a trunk mounted sub. You'll get far better results from replacing the electronics than the stock speakers, which are actually not bad at all, but the H-K electronics aren't bad compared to the hi-fi. I'd do the sub first, then the amp if you're not satisfied, with the speakers last if you decide to go all the way.

[BGREWAL]

So what type of amp, or sub would sound the best together? I would replace the underseat ones as well, since i believe that it would only improve the bass.

[luckyyyyyyy]

I run a Hertz SX300D with a mono amp Pioneer GMD9601, it sounds amazing!

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by BGREWAL

I would replace the underseat ones as well, since i believe that it would only improve the bass.

That's highly doubtful. The main factors limiting what they're capable of are the size of the enclosures and the power of the amp driving them. The ideal setup would be an amp with a built in crossover that sends the lowest frequencies to a trunk mounted sub, removing that load from the under seat woofers entirely. There are many ways to do that cheaply with traditional analog output head units, but the BMW head unit output is digital and proprietary, so the cost of aftermarket amps that will work with it is at least doubled.

[atam1980]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Big bass requires a trunk mounted sub. You'll get far better results from replacing the electronics than the stock speakers, which are actually not bad at all, but the H-K electronics aren't bad compared to the hi-fi. I'd do the sub first, then the amp if you're not satisfied, with the speakers last if you decide to go all the way.

this.

The trunk sub itself will make the biggest difference for what you're going for. If you set your crossover optimally, it'll take the load off your stock underseat subs and enable those to go louder in the mid-bass region without getting sloppy.

There's no "best" sub and amp combo...it's all subjective, and you haven't really mentioned your budget or preferences. If you have no budget and want to impress your friends, a JL W7 would do just that. If you're on a budget, Dayton is great bang for your buck. I can personally recommend Image Dynamics IDQ as a solid SQ sub. You can find them used for cheap.

As Billfitz mentioned, I would add a sub first and see if that does it for you. Most people that change out the component speakers are audio snobs, but it sounds like you just want louder.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by atam1980

Most people that change out the component speakers are audio snobs.

I wouldn't say that. They want better sound, and the advertising promises that they'll get it with 'better', and in many cases obscenely over-priced, speakers. I might even believe it myself, were I not a loudspeaker designer by profession.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

That's highly doubtful. The main factors limiting what they're capable of are the size of the enclosures and the power of the amp driving them. The ideal setup would be an amp with a built in crossover that sends the lowest frequencies to a trunk mounted sub, removing that load from the under seat woofers entirely. There are many ways to do that cheaply with traditional analog output head units, but the BMW head unit output is digital and proprietary, so the cost of aftermarket amps that will work with it is at least doubled.

You need a Mobridge processor to go to an aftermarket amp. The Mobridge DA1 is around $600. My HK amp is in a box in the garage. The Mobridge goes to an Alpine DSP and then that leads to a pair of amps (one for the trunk sub, one for the cabin speakers...MusicarNW system and install). It can all be done, but its not cheap. You can get to fantastic sound if you put the money into it. There aren't a lot of cheaper routes that are worth doing with HK as a starting point.

[atam1980]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I wouldn't say that. They want better sound, and the advertising promises that they'll get it with 'better', and in many cases obscenely over-priced, speakers. I might even believe it myself, were I not a loudspeaker designer by profession.

Maybe audio snob isn't the right word, but I'd argue the HK system is more than adequate for the common man.

To want "better sound" would imply that you have pretty specific preferences when it comes to audio. Or some people just like buying things.

I can understand wanting to upgrade if the stock speakers were truly horrible, but spending hundreds or thousands for a marginal increase in sound quality where the listening environment itself is the weakest link is beyond me. I'd rather spend that money on good home equipment and room treatment.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by atam1980

Maybe audio snob isn't the right word, but I'd argue the HK system is more than adequate for the common man.

To want "better sound" would imply that you have pretty specific preferences when it comes to audio. Or some people just like buying things.

I can understand wanting to upgrade if the stock speakers were truly horrible, but spending hundreds or thousands for a marginal increase in sound quality where the listening environment itself is the weakest link is beyond me. I'd rather spend that money on good home equipment and room treatment.

I'll go ahead and be an audio snob, I don't mind. Point one, it isn't a marginal increase in sound quality when it's done right.

Point two, already took care of the home audio equipment. The great thing about buying good audio equipment at home is that, other than the receiver, you end up keeping the equipment for decades. This can be the case with car equipment but not to the same level. When my last lease ended, my audio equipment moved from my last car to this one. We added one more speaker and had to add the Mobridge (last car was HiFi) but I didn't repurchase all of it again.

Point three, part of spending the money is spending the money on tuning to get the most out of the compromised environment. Point three and a half, the shape of most folks' living rooms is nearly as big of a compromise as a car (well, that's an exaggeration but if your living room isn't the right shape, you have at least some environmental issues with sound reproduction...even the wrong material used for your floor can create sound reflection issues).

I love music. I feel that it is my duty to the artists who gave me the gift of their art to try my best to hear the sounds they crafted for me. There's a bass note near the beginning of The Jam's song "Ghosts" that takes my breath away every time I hear it and I've owned that album since about 1981. The effect is ruined by bad sound systems. I totally get, though, that others don't care about sound quality as much as I do.

Sometimes I'm jealous of folk with your attitude as you don't end up spending the oodles of cash on audio equipment...but if you don't care that much about audio, why bother trying to convince people to see it your way? It doesn't make a lot of sense. I've never tried to convince friends that love Football to stop wasting their money on going to games when they could just watch them on TV...it's their passion and their money.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by atam1980

Maybe audio snob isn't the right word, but I'd argue the HK system is more than adequate for the common man.

I agree. It has two main deficiencies. First, the graphic EQ has half the number of adjustment points that it needs to work really well. But it's still a lot better than the standard or hi-fi systems that have no graphic EQ. Second, the subs aren't subs, they're woofers. Subs don't consist of eight inch drivers in tiny enclosures, they're ten inch or larger drivers in fairly large enclosures. If you want really good sound those issues need to be fixed, but for the vast majority of us who use their cars mainly to get from Point A to Point B the H-K is more than adequate to provide background music while so doing.

I can understand wanting to upgrade if the stock speakers were truly horrible, but spending hundreds or thousands for a marginal increase in sound quality where the listening environment itself is the weakest link is beyond me.

+1. If the stock speakers were really bad I'd have swapped them out in a heartbeat, but they're not. That's not a subjectively based assumption, aided to a large degree by advertising, it's the result of my actually measuring their capabilities.

[atam1980]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I'll go ahead and be an audio snob, I don't mind. Point one, it isn't a marginal increase in sound quality when it's done right.

Point two, already took care of the home audio equipment. The great thing about buying good audio equipment at home is that, other than the receiver, you end up keeping the equipment for decades. This can be the case with car equipment but not to the same level. When my last lease ended, my audio equipment moved from my last car to this one. We added one more speaker and had to add the Mobridge (last car was HiFi) but I didn't repurchase all of it again.

Point three, part of spending the money is spending the money on tuning to get the most out of the compromised environment. Point three and a half, the shape of most folks' living rooms is nearly as big of a compromise as a car (well, that's an exaggeration but if your living room isn't the right shape, you have at least some environmental issues with sound reproduction...even the wrong material used for your floor can create sound reflection issues).

I love music. I feel that it is my duty to the artists who gave me the gift of their art to try my best to hear the sounds they crafted for me. There's a bass note near the beginning of The Jam's song "Ghosts" that takes my breath away every time I hear it and I've owned that album since about 1981. The effect is ruined by bad sound systems. I totally get, though, that others don't care about sound quality as much as I do.

Sometimes I'm jealous of folk with your attitude as you don't end up spending the oodles of cash on audio equipment...but if you don't care that much about audio, why bother trying to convince people to see it your way? It doesn't make a lot of sense. I've never tried to convince friends that love Football to stop wasting their money on going to games when they could just watch them on TV...it's their passion and their money.

Points taken and all perfectly valid. I think you may have taken my post the wrong way. I care plenty about audio, and maybe I'm too snobby, but I just don't believe great audio can be achieved in a vehicle. The noise floor (the f30 is LOUD), the placement of the speakers, there are plenty of things that simply can't be corrected with better components or processing. And I agree with you completely. I'm a firm believer in listening to music with accurate reproduction, that's why I listen to NPR in the car.

My intent wasn't to convince anyone to see it my way; I was just stating my opinion... as were you in all the points you made. I advised the OP to purchase his equipment in steps, see how satisfied he is with each step, and move forward if he isn't. That seemed like a pragmatic approach to me. And tbh, he didn't sound to me like an audiophile looking for accurate sound. He sounded like a young guy that wanted some knock in his car... me 15 years ago.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I'll go ahead (HUGE SNIP) ...it's their passion and their money.

Preach on brother. As a musician / engineer myself, it is easy to hear differences and yes sound quality matters. It is how the musical performers wanted us hear their artistry. Perhaps if more music fans heard master tape quality as within a studio environment, and then compared it to their own audio system(s)... JMHO.

Enjoy the Music

PS: i went Focal drivers, Dynamat and basic powered sub. Stock HK is ok, yet too much time smear in center channel, deficient freq res below 60Hz, etc. Agree that going full DSP and multi-channel pre/amp config amps is the way to go. Scarp the stock bits and get calibrated/custom time/phase/EQ/etc going. Add some Dynamat to the car panels while you're in there.

[viperguy212]

I've been debating this myself for a bit...

I'm thinking of going a pretty basic route of adding a single Mono amp and a single trunk sub in a custom fiberglass enclosure.

I used Technic's harnesses previously with my E92 with great results so I was thinking about picking up one of these, adding some Dynamat and calling it a day.

[AZ-M007]

Originally Posted by viperguy212

I've been debating this myself for a bit...

I'm thinking of going a pretty basic route of adding a single Mono amp and a single trunk sub in a custom fiberglass enclosure.

I used Technic's harnesses previously with my E92 with great results so I was thinking about picking up one of these, adding some Dynamat and calling it a day.

Trunk 12inch sub is the best option for bass.

[Billfitz]

A ten, or even a very good eight, is sufficient. The size of the driver is less important than the size of the enclosure. A twelve stuffed into a box that's too small for it will be less capable than a smaller driver loaded in the correct size box.

BTW, the OP probably got sorted out nearly two years ago.