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      06-07-2017, 10:43 PM   #1
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Comparing my M2 vs my e46 M3

As a new M2 owner I constantly get asked how it compares to my e46 m3. I wanted to give my own feedback and experiences with the two cars. First, a picture of both cars.




Initial Impression

I had an F80 m3 last year and was very excited to get into one. After a brief ownership I realized that it just didn't excite me that much. I sold the car after about 6 months. I hear the M2 vs e46 m3 comparison thrown around everywhere. I mean why not, they're practically the same weight, almost the same length with the M2 being wider. I've only had the M2 for about 2 weeks and most of that has been spirited driving around town or on the freeway. My initial impressions were that it was a completely different car with no similarities. If anything it was closer to the f8x platform than the e46 (I also had an f80 m3 previously). Driving the car home from the dealership the M2 felt very composed at normal speeds around town. I was actually a little let down since I had very very high expectations for the car. But i knew the true potential of the car was not something you could experience putting around town.






The E46 M3

The E46 is a very raw, analog feeling car. I don't believe BMW has made a car quite like that yet and I doubt they ever will. Steering is very direct and you feel at one with the car. I've owned 2 E46's and I think I will always have one in the garage. I love the heavy steering feel, the notchy shifter and the noise the S54 makes. Its crazy to think how a 10+ year old M3 can still drive so amazingly well. I love that the car can be driven fast or slow and still give you the same excitement. The M3 has such a pure drivers car feel that the M2 doesn't quite match up to.




The F87 M2

Jumping into the M2 it immediately feels modern and the interior is a very pleasant place to spend your day. I know it gets a lot of crap for being minimal but comparing it to an e46 it feels super luxurious. Over the last week or so I was able to push the car a little harder and I realized its definitely a car that wants to be driven aggressively. Whereas the E46 has that feeling all the time the M2 really wakes up when being pushed a little. Power is definitely a big thing to notice between the two cars. Since they are practically the same weight you can definitely feel the 30hp/100tq difference.




In the end I'm glad I have both these cars in my garage as they serve two difference purposes for me. I wouldn't quite say they are the same car but the M2 is the closest thing BMW has offered thats similar to the M3. I can't wait to take the M2 out on the track to unleash its true potential
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      06-08-2017, 03:59 AM   #2
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Your E46 obviously has the benefit of being modded (suspension, exhaust, what else?). Tweak your M2 a bit and it will become more visceral, sans the electric steering. Take advantage of its 10+ years of engineering advancements over the M3 and you'll see vastly faster lap times at your local track.
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      06-08-2017, 06:06 PM   #3
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"Driving the car home from the dealership the M2 felt very composed at normal speeds around town. I was actually a little let down since I had very very high expectations for the car."

Feeling composed at normal speeds around town is a bad thing?
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      06-08-2017, 07:07 PM   #4
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Not to hijack this thread, but I share the same sentiments. The E46 M3 is as raw as it gets. That being said, when I jump into the M2 and put my foot down, it is a superior machine in every way (there would be something wrong if it wasn't!).

The M3 has excitement because of all the noise and rawness whereas the M2 like most modern cars, things have changed a bit and they seem to be more clinical in their execution.

I keep my M3 simply because of the S54 and the noise it makes, but I know that the M2 is vastly superior =). Still both great machines in their own different ways.
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      06-09-2017, 06:08 AM   #5
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I share the same thoughts in the first place (I own both cars as well).

But I have to say that I really hate driving the M346 slowly. I think due to being so analog and raw, the car is really kind of annoying to drive around town (hint: a village or town in Germany is quite different to the US, maybe thats why). I love driving the M2 slowly as it is so enjoyable and easy at all speeds.

But: I would always prefer the M346, without a doubt. It feels so much more "M"-ish and way more "bespoke" than the M2. I love both cars, but the M346 is a real heartbreaker which I will never ever sell.
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      06-10-2017, 12:41 AM   #6
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Nice e46 M3 you have there. It's a rare sight seeing one without xenons.

With regards to the comparison, I agree completely with the raw feeling. However, that's just the nature of car evolution. The newer car will always feel more solid and insulated. Just like a comparison between an e30 M3 and the e46 M3. The e30 M3 feels significantly more raw and connected than the e46 M3.
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      06-10-2017, 01:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Nice e46 M3 you have there. It's a rare sight seeing one without xenons.

With regards to the comparison, I agree completely with the raw feeling. However, that's just the nature of car evolution. The newer car will always feel more solid and insulated. Just like a comparison between an e30 M3 and the e46 M3. The e30 M3 feels significantly more raw and connected than the e46 M3.
Lol yeah i about spit out my cornflakes hearing " the E46 M3 is about as raw as it gets " lol.

No... a 2002 would be as raw as it gets for a BMW .. and an E30 M3 would be next .. The E46 is a luxobarge in comparison to both. Lol.
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      06-10-2017, 02:32 AM   #8
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Hahaha blablaba raw E30 M3



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      06-10-2017, 07:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Nice e46 M3 you have there. It's a rare sight seeing one without xenons.

With regards to the comparison, I agree completely with the raw feeling. However, that's just the nature of car evolution. The newer car will always feel more solid and insulated. Just like a comparison between an e30 M3 and the e46 M3. The e30 M3 feels significantly more raw and connected than the e46 M3.
Have you driven an e30 M3?

I'd agree the e30 feels more delicate or more tossable. But, I would say the e46 feels more raw. If you can look past the nicer materials, the e46 rides harsher, makes more mechanical noises (e.g. M clunk), and has a more cantankerous engine (e.g. the s54 has trouble holding a steady idle). I'd argue the e46 is the most raw feeling of all the M3 generations.
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      06-10-2017, 07:59 AM   #10
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I had an E46 M3 6MT back in 02-03 great car.

I drove 2 E30 M3s >10 years ago. Stock 200hp cars(one of one of my best mates). It was balanced the steering fine, but it felt relatively slow and no where near raw!

E46 M3 was a great drifter, that engine/sound/feel.


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      06-10-2017, 08:17 PM   #11
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My thoughts (and I have about 50 miles behind the wheel of an M2 PE so take everything with a grain of salt).

First my history:
* Had an 2002 E46M3 from 2006 to 2014
* Did multiple track days all over the East Coast (Summit, NJMP, VIR, etc)
* Sold the E46M3 and purchased a 996GT3 and proceeded to make it track-worthy (not cheap haha) - if you want to talk about raw, it made the E46M3 with coilvers feel like a comfy GT car
* Have done most of the major tracks in SoCal with the GT3 - great experiences with the car and I know I will own another GT car in the future - there really is no substitute
* The car was sitting A LOT because I only wanted to track it because it felt over-kill and worthless on the street (even canyons)
* It came to the point where it felt like I was losing money when driving it on the street - so I sold it
* Been 6 months (in Los Angeles) and I've been carless
* Literally yesterday, I just picked up an M2 PE


So back to the M2, from what I remember of the E46M3 (which had TCK SA coilovers and many, many other suspension mods - I don't think I ever drove it with bone stock suspension - it always had some form of suspension modification), I agree, the E46M3 is nothing like the M2 PE (which includes the M Performance Coilovers). I'm not saying that is a bad thing. Not at all. The M2 is way more refined and composed (granted I haven't tracked it yet - I will). This is also my first foray into DCT transmissions (I learned to drive stick on the E46M3 and the gearbox in the 6GT3 is probably one of the best out there). Either way, even from throwing the M2 around a little bit, its just different. Not soft or unresponsive or disconnected. Its just different. The M2 definitely feels heavier than the E46M3 (mine had a pretty good weight reduction with Sparco buckets at one point) but it hides the weight very well.

I honestly can't wait to get the M2 to the track. I think it will be a blast and super easy to drive very quickly (unlike the 6GT3 hah - which literally had no drivers aides besides ABS).

I was actually looking to buy another E46M3 instead of the M2 but couldn't find an Alpine White 6MT 05/06 with low to average miles (or people wanted a ridiculous sum for the car). If I had the garage space, I would definitely want another E46M3 at some point...
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      06-12-2017, 08:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
I share the same thoughts in the first place (I own both cars as well).

But I have to say that I really hate driving the M346 slowly. I think due to being so analog and raw, the car is really kind of annoying to drive around town (hint: a village or town in Germany is quite different to the US, maybe thats why). I love driving the M2 slowly as it is so enjoyable and easy at all speeds.

But: I would always prefer the M346, without a doubt. It feels so much more "M"-ish and way more "bespoke" than the M2. I love both cars, but the M346 is a real heartbreaker which I will never ever sell.
Accurate. E46 M3 particularly if you let it breathe with headers, intake, exhaust, is such a monster when you drive aggressively. Otherwise it's a bit clunky especially if you have the wrong transmission.
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      06-16-2017, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Have you driven an e30 M3?

I'd agree the e30 feels more delicate or more tossable. But, I would say the e46 feels more raw. If you can look past the nicer materials, the e46 rides harsher, makes more mechanical noises (e.g. M clunk), and has a more cantankerous engine (e.g. the s54 has trouble holding a steady idle). I'd argue the e46 is the most raw feeling of all the M3 generations.
Feeling raw goes way beyond those things. The e46 has way more electronic nannies and sound insulation than the e30. The clutch feel is numb in comparison (it has a CDV afterall), the throttle response is not as quick nor direct, and it has way more sound insulation (ie, refined) than the e30. The e46 feels like you're inside a tank/coffin relative to the e30. Just because it's engine make more mechanical noises (or is "cantankerous") doesn't make it "rawer" than the e30. You feel more of the road on the e30 and you have a more direct connected feel to the car (throttle, clutch, steering). IMO, that's what makes the e30 more raw than the e46.

Did I mention rev-hanging? A direct-connected, raw feeling car shouldn't have this just for the sake of emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Lol yeah i about spit out my cornflakes hearing " the E46 M3 is about as raw as it gets " lol.

No... a 2002 would be as raw as it gets for a BMW .. and an E30 M3 would be next .. The E46 is a luxobarge in comparison to both. Lol.
Agreed.
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      06-16-2017, 07:12 PM   #14
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Hi Mike!

You gota try driving my PE one of these days. I think with the slightly simpler interior, manual seats, as well as the PE coilovers, you'll find it closer to your E46 than anything else out there.

My best comparison I have of the PE is still to the white E46 you've had with JRZ's on it, it feels incredibly similar, with the E46 having a slight edge in rawness, but the M2 has this refinement that makes it much easier to drive hard.

Last edited by cookiesowns; 06-17-2017 at 01:49 AM..
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      06-17-2017, 12:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Feeling raw goes way beyond those things. The e46 has way more electronic nannies and sound insulation than the e30. The clutch feel is numb in comparison (it has a CDV afterall), the throttle response is not as quick nor direct, and it has way more sound insulation (ie, refined) than the e30. The e46 feels like you're inside a tank/coffin relative to the e30. Just because it's engine make more mechanical noises (or is "cantankerous") doesn't make it "rawer" than the e30. You feel more of the road on the e30 and you have a more direct connected feel to the car (throttle, clutch, steering). IMO, that's what makes the e30 more raw than the e46.

Did I mention rev-hanging? A direct-connected, raw feeling car shouldn't have this just for the sake of emissions.



Agreed.

The S54 engine has no rev hang, it drops like a rock. S54 throttle response still shames most sports cars since it has independent throttle bodies, no turbos, and no crazy emissions stuff. Never driven an E30 but the S54 is way better than the S50 in every way.

Older cars are going to be more raw, period. The only way to get close is a real sports car, which are few and far between these days. Current M cars are not real sports cars, they are sports sedans/coupes.

If OP wants something significantly more raw, try a 987.2 Cayman S.
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      06-17-2017, 01:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The S54 engine has no rev hang, it drops like a rock. S54 throttle response still shames most sports cars since it has independent throttle bodies, no turbos, and no crazy emissions stuff. Never driven an E30 but the S54 is way better than the S50 in every way.
While still decent by modern standards, the e46M3 (S54) still has an electronically controlled DBW (drive-by-wire). The DBC (drive-by-cable) system of previous Ms provide much better feedback, linearity, and feel. There are conversion kits (to DBC) available for the S54. The main point is that the DBC throttle provides a more raw feel than a DBW throttle. Same thing with the CDV (present in the e46) vs a non-CDV in terms of clutch feel and response (rawness).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719
Older cars are going to be more raw, period. The only way to get close is a real sports car, which are few and far between these days. Current M cars are not real sports cars, they are sports sedans/coupes.

If OP wants something significantly more raw, try a 987.2 Cayman S.
This is the main point I was making when comparing the e30 to the e46. Nothing more, nothing less. I love the e46, but when it comes to raw feel, the e30 has more of it just like the e46 has more of it over the f87.
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      06-17-2017, 08:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
While still decent by modern standards, the e46M3 (S54) still has an electronically controlled DBW (drive-by-wire). The DBC (drive-by-cable) system of previous Ms provide much better feedback, linearity, and feel. There are conversion kits (to DBC) available for the S54. The main point is that the DBC throttle provides a more raw feel than a DBW throttle. Same thing with the CDV (present in the e46) vs a non-CDV in terms of clutch feel and response (rawness).



This is the main point I was making when comparing the e30 to the e46. Nothing more, nothing less. I love the e46, but when it comes to raw feel, the e30 has more of it just like the e46 has more of it over the f87.
The most hilarious part of all these E46 vs E30 comments is that not a single person has mentioned the S14....

Sure.. the S54 has a unique sound... but an S14 at 6500 rpms.. while it also has a glorious sound of it's own... while doing so.. the driveline also buzzed and vibrated like pretty much no other BMW motor due to harmonic vibrations created by a large 4 cylinder motor revving to high rpm. I owned an S14 for 17 years... Owned an E46 M3 (ex-wife's vert) for 6 years.
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      06-17-2017, 10:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
While still decent by modern standards, the e46M3 (S54) still has an electronically controlled DBW (drive-by-wire). The DBC (drive-by-cable) system of previous Ms provide much better feedback, linearity, and feel.
I agree on feedback and feel (though, the the case of the throttle, I think they're the same thing).

I do not agree on linearity whatsoever. Having better linearity would assume there's a correlation between how wide the throttle is opened and how much power is created-- which is incorrect. E.g. the S54 (stock) does not open the throttle 100% at low RPM because doing so creates less power than opening it partially. To me, it's far more important to have the pedal position linearly translate to power output than linearly translate to throttle position.

But, even if you wanted it to translate to throttle position, that's an easy DIY reprogram. Nobody does it because it would... worse.

I do agree the feel is better on the manual throttle-- I enjoyed it on my US spec e36 M3, euro spec e36 M3, and currently enjoy it on my e39 528i. But, the drive by wire allows for greater power output control and more power.
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      06-17-2017, 10:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Feeling raw goes way beyond those things. The e46 has way more electronic nannies and sound insulation than the e30. The clutch feel is numb in comparison (it has a CDV afterall), the throttle response is not as quick nor direct, and it has way more sound insulation (ie, refined) than the e30. The e46 feels like you're inside a tank/coffin relative to the e30. Just because it's engine make more mechanical noises (or is "cantankerous") doesn't make it "rawer" than the e30. You feel more of the road on the e30 and you have a more direct connected feel to the car (throttle, clutch, steering). IMO, that's what makes the e30 more raw than the e46.

Did I mention rev-hanging? A direct-connected, raw feeling car shouldn't have this just for the sake of emissions.



Agreed.
Electronic nannies are a one button, short press, shut off.

Throttle response is as quick and direct as you want it to be. These days it's literally drag a sider bar. Amusingly I programmed mine to be less quick, as I prefer more granular control over how much power is being applied.



CDV... honestly I have no idea how it feels-- I took it off the car the 2nd day I owned it, 14 years ago... and I don't know a single person that hasn't removed it. It would be interesting to drive a car with it again. But, as a free, 5 minute mod... pretty much everyone who slightly cares has removed it.

The S54 does not have any rev hang, not sure what you're talking about there.

Can't argue the additional sound deadening in the e46 (though I've removed same same sound deadening bits BMW did in the CSL in my coupe). My M3 wagon still has full factory sound deadening, and it is pretty quiet.
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      06-25-2017, 11:36 PM   #20
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I want to see a pic of the M3 wagon. I briefly drove an E30 M3. That was raw. Even going around the block, it felt like a race car.
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      06-26-2017, 06:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rouxeny View Post
I want to see a pic of the M3 wagon. I briefly drove an E30 M3. That was raw. Even going around the block, it felt like a race car.
My wagon is 100% mechanically (engine/trans/diff/brakes/control arms/bushings/steering rack/sub frames/exhaust/seat/steering wheel) and electronically (cluster/ecu/dsc) converted to an M3, but has stock bodywork.

So it looks like a slightly lowered e46 wagon with larger brakes and BBS wheels...



That said, BMW did build one wide body one, so if you want to see it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/09/28...uring-is-real/
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      06-26-2017, 01:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
My wagon is 100% mechanically (engine/trans/diff/brakes/control arms/bushings/steering rack/sub frames/exhaust/seat/steering wheel) and electronically (cluster/ecu/dsc) converted to an M3, but has stock bodywork.

So it looks like a slightly lowered e46 wagon with larger brakes and BBS wheels...



That said, BMW did build one wide body one, so if you want to see it:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/09/28...uring-is-real/
I think I saw a huge forum post on that m3 wagon build. Very cool project!
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