[Ilyam5]

Interesting thing - 4 wheel drive cars in BMW line up get no love.
Even their "Performance models" - like 440 coupe and grand coupe in x version get standard x drive suspension that is 10mm taller and no possibility to upgrade to M susp - option 704 or M performance suspension.
Yes dynamic dampers get you adjustable shocks but the springs and ride height stay the same.
Aftermarket options for that are limited as well (No Dinan, no BMW port install option for suspension) - the only way to go is to find Coiloves that will fit and forgo warranty.
Manual trans options are limited for x drive cars or not available at all.

Driven hard (taken to the track) - they present another slew of problems:

Transfer cases fail from constant overheat and trying to send torque to the front wheels via weak clutches
Automatic gear box overheat
Potential front drive joints failure from hot front brakes
And the most interesting one (can be avoided if special order performance tire package) - most of x drive cars come with all season RF tires. That comes with lowered speed limiter of 130 - that can only be changed by super willing dealers in the first 10 hours of the ECU (who makes up this rules

Any experience here fixing or eliminating these issues?
I know there was a thread of people disabling transfer case to make the car RWD. Anyobe else with experience with these cars on the track?

maybe new M5 will fix that

[hinckley]

I'm in 100% agreement with this. Audi's Quattro systems, especially cars equipped with it sport (torque vectoring) rear diff, are light years better. I had been a BMW driver since the 80s and moved to Audi six years ago for just this reason. That said, I'm coming home to BMW because I want an MT and Audi will no longer offer me one. So I'm trying to "butch-up" my ordered 440ix as much as possible. I'm getting the M Sport and Track Packages. And I do think that Dinan has springs that will help (at least with the height) - https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...ries&mid=1249/

I'm going to call Dinan on Monday and have them walk me through their suspension upgrades. The problem is that when you start to load up the 440ix with all the BMW and aftermarket kit, you're quickly getting close to the M4's price. And that just sucks when you really need/want AWD.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I'm in 100% agreement with this. Audi's Quattro systems, especially cars equipped with it sport (torque vectoring) rear diff, are light years better. I had been a BMW driver since the 80s and moved to Audi six years ago for just this reason. That said, I'm coming home to BMW because I want an MT and Audi will no longer offer me one. So I'm trying to "butch-up" my ordered 440ix as much as possible. I'm getting the M Sport and Track Packages. And I do think that Dinan has springs that will help (at least with the height) - https://www.dinancars.com/product/d1...ries&mid=1249/

I'm going to call Dinan on Monday and have them walk me through their suspension upgrades. The problem is that when you start to load up the 440ix with all the BMW and aftermarket kit, you're quickly getting close to the M4's price. And that just sucks when you really need/want AWD.

xDrive is no great shakes. Skip it, and get a RWD car. Problem solved.

[xlover]

Agree 100%, but it seems like BMW has heard the feedback

They are actually already in process of fixing it. The new mperformance models like the m240 have the same suspension xdrive or rwd. Also the new 5 in any config the xdrive and rwd suspensions are the same. (They actually call this out in marketing materials) Xdrive Sport models get the lowered ride height and stiffer springs.

Expect the G20 to follow suit... unfortunately the F3X chassis is the last holdout of BMWs misguided strategy that awd models are just for performance posers

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by xlover

the F3X chassis is the last holdout of BMWs misguided strategy that awd models are just for performance posers

Perhaps, but we don't have access to their market research. My guess is that it told them when the F3X was in R&D that those after performance didn't care about AWD, and those who wanted AWD weren't all that concerned with performance. If current market research says that a large enough percentage of potential G3X buyers want both they'll probably give it to them. If you don't agree do your own market research right here and see how much division there is between RWD and AWD owners. There's still a pretty wide gap.

[MomoM3]

Have had 1 e46 M3 and 2 e92 M3. Currently have 340ix 6MT M, track, now. No issues with what you mention. Live in rural area where I can get on the car hard in twisties. Still fun. Handles like AWD in terms of stability, which can be fun. Lose like 5% of driving enjoyment as compared to RWD. I get to put snow tires on in the winter. Fun car.

Though, I agree that the clutch slips on a hard WOT from a standstill at times.

If I were to do it again, I'd still get xDrive. Go M3/M4 if you want RWD with an actual differential.

[BimmerBoomer]

I think the new M550i xDrive shows the direction BMW is headed in, and the new M5 will be an AWD monster. I'm sure there will be an "M440i xDrive" but I'm not sure I can hold out for MY 2020 (or later).

[anotheran]

I'll wait and see what the former racers turned writers say about the new M5 before I go M division xDrive.

In the meantime, I totally agree with op. xDrive get short end of the stick in terms of driving dynamics. I had to get dinan shockware and springs to fix the float and bounce. Very happy with it now.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Perhaps, but we don't have access to their market research. My guess is that it told them when the F3X was in R&D that those after performance didn't care about AWD, and those who wanted AWD weren't all that concerned with performance. If current market research says that a large enough percentage of potential G3X buyers want both they'll probably give it to them. If you don't agree do your own market research right here and see how much division there is between RWD and AWD owners. There's still a pretty wide gap.

I tend to see it the same way. Historically RWD was the performance choice, xDrive the all weather compromise/option.

We've seen it over here in the UK, customers wanted xDrive for all weather conditions. We never got xDrive in the 3-series until the F3x models. Immediately some users, only familiar with the previous sporty RWD models, started buying into xDrive, but disappointed that xDrive came with all weather compromises. Major criticism was the softer suspension with greater ground clearance. Made more complex over here, as we don't normally use All Season tires, models were coming with high performance summer tires. Sort of mixed messages for UK buyers. Some xDrive buyers were wanting all the sporty features of their previous RWD models, with the addition of a couple of extra driving wheels.

I sense BMW are now (partly due to customer demand) moving the market to include the performance xDrive models. G30 being a production example. M-sport (704) suspension, now an option. Bodes well for future new models, more choice of chassis options.

[BimmerBoomer]

The very notion of a turbocharged sports sedan without AWD - or even an LSD - is prima facie ridiculous, and what begs explanation "historically" is how BMW strayed down this path at all.

[donkey]

Originally Posted by MomoM3

Have had 1 e46 M3 and 2 e92 M3. Currently have 340ix 6MT M, track, now. No issues with what you mention. Live in rural area where I can get on the car hard in twisties. Still fun. Handles like AWD in terms of stability, which can be fun. Lose like 5% of driving enjoyment as compared to RWD. I get to put snow tires on in the winter. Fun car.

Though, I agree that the clutch slips on a hard WOT from a standstill at times.

If I were to do it again, I'd still get xDrive. Go M3/M4 if you want RWD with an actual differential.

Not trying to diss xdrive but "going hard in the twisties" (I do this as well if conditions are right) is not even close to hard, continuous track use.

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

The very notion of a turbocharged sports sedan without AWD - or even an LSD - is prima facie ridiculous, and what begs explanation "historically" is how BMW strayed down this path at all.

I agree that these cars definitely should have an LSD option from factory, but don't think that AWD is necessary for cars at this performance level. Especially an AWD system that is designed for driving in inclement weather first and performance second.

I do hope that BMW continues to refine and offer both RWD and xDrive in future models.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Perhaps, but we don't have access to their market research. My guess is that it told them when the F3X was in R&D that those after performance didn't care about AWD, and those who wanted AWD weren't all that concerned with performance. If current market research says that a large enough percentage of potential G3X buyers want both they'll probably give it to them. If you don't agree do your own market research right here and see how much division there is between RWD and AWD owners. There's still a pretty wide gap.

I think that's fair, they clearly had some level of research supporting the choices they made when engineering the F3X chassis. The only thing I knock them on is not engineering the option to get the same suspensions with xdrive, didn't have to be standard but that they ignored an addressable market which was certainly budding at the time is what I didn't understand . Which I think is shortsighted but no doubt saved them dev costs.

Regardless of what they did in the past the enthusiasts who want xdrive plus sport suspensions have spoken pretty vocally. And BMW has responded incrementally, the f30 LCI was an improvement, I expect the f32 to be even more so. The ride height won't be solved (at least OEM) till the next gen cars, but the xdrive LCI cars are certainly much better than at platform launch in 2012 and when loaded up with the track pack dampeners.

The m performance models are really taking the full opposite direction, like Audi, assuming that consumers buying the top engine in the series models only want the sportiest suspensions rwd or xdrive. You can see that in the M240, M550, and M760 the latter 2 only available as xdrive.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Perhaps, but we don't have access to their market research. My guess is that it told them when the F3X was in R&D that those after performance didn't care about AWD, and those who wanted AWD weren't all that concerned with performance. If current market research says that a large enough percentage of potential G3X buyers want both they'll probably give it to them. If you don't agree do your own market research right here and see how much division there is between RWD and AWD owners. There's still a pretty wide gap.

I think BMW's research got this one wrong and we're seeing that proved out with the changes to the next-gen performance xDrive models. But the current-gen xDrives coincided with BMW's move toward the luxury end of the sport-luxury continuum, so it's somewhat understandable that they overshot the mark. My guess is that once all the G platforms are rolled-out, xDrive will be back on track. But for now, many of us just have to deal with the F platform misstep.

On the other hand, Audi's moved a bit more toward the sport side of the continuum, and because they started with a FWD chassis, they had to work hard to engineer Quattro to provide their cars with performance cred. I think it worked, and the current-gen AWD Audis are better than their BMW counterparts imo. But I'm still a BMW guy at heart and I've no doubt that they'll get the G20 xDrives right.

[BimmerBoomer]

Originally Posted by drive

I agree that these cars definitely should have an LSD option from factory, but don't think that AWD is necessary for cars at this performance level. Especially an AWD system that is designed for driving in inclement weather first and performance second.

It depends on where you draw the line. The M3/M4 are traction limited even with an LSD, and I had more torque in my 2007 335i coupe w/ Dinan stage 2.

[MomoM3]

Originally Posted by drive

Not trying to diss xdrive but "going hard in the twisties" (I do this as well if conditions are right) is not even close to hard, continuous track use.

No, it's cool, this is a subjective statement though. Just like it's subjective for me to say you should get an M something and not a 3/4-series if you actually track your car, hard.

I lowered with Dinan and added non-runflat MPSS tires and am content with my basic set up but still wouldn't consider it anywhere near a track-ready car. I do agree that its stock state is less than desired. My point is that the difference as compared to the same non-xDrive car is negligible to me. Any non-M car, in my opinion, would be more suitable as a commuter car first, performance car second.

Conversely, I'm not sold on the whole M + xDrive thing either, so there's that.

[insanecoder]

If it were audi awd it may had more consideration
but on the track I like the feel of the rear breakin loose
and the occasional drag

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I think BMW's research got this one wrong and we're seeing that proved out with the changes to the next-gen performance xDrive models. But the current-gen xDrives coincided with BMW's move toward the luxury end of the sport-luxury continuum, so it's somewhat understandable that they overshot the mark. My guess is that once all the G platforms are rolled-out, xDrive will be back on track. But for now, many of us just have to deal with the F platform misstep.

Did BMW get it wrong, or has the market changed very quickly?

BTW, did the E9x xDrive models come with a lowered M-sport suspension option?

We didn't get them in the UK, so no users over here had experience with xDrive in the 3-series until the F3x models. We had been used to the X3/X5 coming with standard and M-sport suspensions. So a shock to many, that the 3 & 4-series xDrive models didn't have a lowered M-sport suspension option.

[iqsman]

Originally Posted by xlover

Regardless of what they did in the past the enthusiasts who want xdrive plus sport suspensions have spoken pretty vocally. And BMW has responded incrementally, the f30 LCI was an improvement, I expect the f32 to be even more so. The ride height won't be solved (at least OEM) till the next gen cars, but the xdrive LCI cars are certainly much better than at platform launch in 2012 and when loaded up with the track pack dampeners.

In this case I miss my 2007 328xi. It was AWD, but it also had the sport package which included the suspension as well as 6MT. I guess I didn't realize what a small group must have preferred this combo. I was very disappointed to hear that F30 AWD cars didn't offer a 6MT any more.

[donkey]

Originally Posted by iqsman

In this case I miss my 2007 328xi. It was AWD, but it also had the sport package which included the suspension as well as 6MT. I guess I didn't realize what a small group must have preferred this combo. I was very disappointed to hear that F30 AWD cars didn't offer a 6MT any more.

They do, you just have to get a 335i/340i

[BMW11]

only 10mm difference thats not much

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMW11

only 10mm difference thats not much

It's a least 3" isn't it?

[xlover]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

It's a least 3" isn't it?

0.4 inches