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      04-29-2017, 08:08 PM   #1
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BMW M2 VS Lotus Exige S

I love my BMW M2 but, recently I have been thinking on one of my all time favorite cars, the Lotus Exige. Anyone have driven both cars can comments in regards driving dynamics? I know the Exige is small, no visibility, noisy, minimalistic interiors etc...

Anyway, anyone with experience with both cars would be appreciated
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      04-30-2017, 06:50 AM   #2
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The Exige S is way more tactile than the M2 - unassisted steering communicates so very much better, then there's the level of feedback through the chassis, the immediacy of throttle response, the greater top-end rush of the power delivery and of course the super-stiff structure, much lower centre of gravity and mid-engined layout giving a rather different balance at each stage of a corner.

I'd driven Elises and Evoras on road and track a few times so had some expectation when trying the S - I was blown away, for pure driving enjoyment it's a very special car indeed and the V6 and longer wheelbase even manages to confer some of the Evoras GT ability yet apparently without losing any of the track-car essence of the Elise.

M2 is a completely different kettle of fish - front engine/rear drive, extra weight and height mean it is more cumbersome, more unruly hot-rod by comparison, and one which is relatively soft and numb. The result of course of humble coupe origins, and the need for decent refinement and acceptable day-to-day ride. Still a very impressive outcome I think.
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      04-30-2017, 11:26 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by johnnydad View Post
The Exige S is way more tactile than the M2 - unassisted steering communicates so very much better, then there's the level of feedback through the chassis, the immediacy of throttle response, the greater top-end rush of the power delivery and of course the super-stiff structure, much lower centre of gravity and mid-engined layout giving a rather different balance at each stage of a corner.

I'd driven Elises and Evoras on road and track a few times so had some expectation when trying the S - I was blown away, for pure driving enjoyment it's a very special car indeed and the V6 and longer wheelbase even manages to confer some of the Evoras GT ability yet apparently without losing any of the track-car essence of the Elise.

M2 is a completely different kettle of fish - front engine/rear drive, extra weight and height mean it is more cumbersome, more unruly hot-rod by comparison, and one which is relatively soft and numb. The result of course of humble coupe origins, and the need for decent refinement and acceptable day-to-day ride. Still a very impressive outcome I think.
Thanks for the input. I have been noticing how well the Exiges are holding their value even for a 10 year old car. I have yet to see one in wild, but I have seen Elises.

Have you owned a lotus before? If so how is the maintenance compared to the BMW M's
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      04-30-2017, 11:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydad View Post
The Exige S is way more tactile than the M2 - unassisted steering communicates so very much better, then there's the level of feedback through the chassis, the immediacy of throttle response, the greater top-end rush of the power delivery and of course the super-stiff structure, much lower centre of gravity and mid-engined layout giving a rather different balance at each stage of a corner.

I'd driven Elises and Evoras on road and track a few times so had some expectation when trying the S - I was blown away, for pure driving enjoyment it's a very special car indeed and the V6 and longer wheelbase even manages to confer some of the Evoras GT ability yet apparently without losing any of the track-car essence of the Elise.

M2 is a completely different kettle of fish - front engine/rear drive, extra weight and height mean it is more cumbersome, more unruly hot-rod by comparison, and one which is relatively soft and numb. The result of course of humble coupe origins, and the need for decent refinement and acceptable day-to-day ride. Still a very impressive outcome I think.
So all of that negativity towards the M2 results in a very impressive outcome you think.
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      04-30-2017, 12:01 PM   #5
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So all of that negativity towards the M2 results in a very impressive outcome you think.
What negativity are you referring to?
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      04-30-2017, 06:50 PM   #6
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I traded in an Elise SC for my M2 due to age and practicality for the kids. If we are ONLY talking about driving dynamics, there are very few cars compare to the Lotus. It might not be the fastest car on the track especially long tracks with lots of straights, but it will always be one of the most fun cars out there. It really does feel like you are driving a super fast go cart. All the stuff that you hear and read in the reviews are true, the steering, the feel, the handling... Even though it's not that fast anymore compared to today's standard, it will still feel fast when you are driving it. The M2 is faster than my Lotus, but I had a lot more fun in the Lotus.


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      04-30-2017, 07:05 PM   #7
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Thanks man. I think i will trade my M2 for an Exige S or limited release elise sport. I may go back to BMW when the CS comes out
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      04-30-2017, 07:18 PM   #8
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Can't speak for Exige but I owned a supercharged 06 Elise and own a M2 currently. They are completely incomparable. Exige is a 2,000 pound no frills sports car that is built for only handing. M2 is a comfortable, torquey but 3,450 lbs 4 seater.

Elise/Exige will feel much more agile, but way way less powerful (even supercharged) and way less usable as a car. Buy an Elise/Exige only for autocross/track/canyon carving, it sucks for everything else. Maintenance is cheap, drivetrain is Toyota bits but if you break something Lotus specific it's expensive. Tires and brakes are smaller and cheaper.
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      04-30-2017, 07:59 PM   #9
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Can't speak for Exige but I owned a supercharged 06 Elise and own a M2 currently. They are completely incomparable. Exige is a 2,000 pound no frills sports car that is built for only handing. M2 is a comfortable, torquey but 3,450 lbs 4 seater.

Elise/Exige will feel much more agile, but way way less powerful (even supercharged) and way less usable as a car. Buy an Elise/Exige only for autocross/track/canyon carving, it sucks for everything else. Maintenance is cheap, drivetrain is Toyota bits but if you break something Lotus specific it's expensive. Tires and brakes are smaller and cheaper.
Yes , it would be my weekend toy car. I have a regular sedan for everyday driving with the family. I like the M2, but is a bit too comfortable and not as raw. The E46 M3 to me was the best M car, granted I haven't tried the 1M.

Another cool reason is that they are very rare and beautiful cars, and when you add how nimble and raw they are, how can you go wrong. I was thinking on the Alfa 4c since they will be discontinued next year, but they are not manual.
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      04-30-2017, 08:00 PM   #10
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I traded in an Elise SC for my M2 due to age and practicality for the kids. If we are ONLY talking about driving dynamics, there are very few cars compare to the Lotus. It might not be the fastest car on the track especially long tracks with lots of straights, but it will always be one of the most fun cars out there. It really does feel like you are driving a super fast go cart. All the stuff that you hear and read in the reviews are true, the steering, the feel, the handling... Even though it's not that fast anymore compared to today's standard, it will still feel fast when you are driving it. The M2 is faster than my Lotus, but I had a lot more fun in the Lotus.


BTW, beautiful Elise. Don't you miss it?
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      04-30-2017, 11:48 PM   #11
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Had an 08' Exige S240 in 2008. Great balanced car provides excellent handling and driver engagement. Acceleration is good until you hit 100mph. After that, car is not as stable due to its lightweight and "limited" horsepower compare my other rides. Not meant to be driven daily or non track purpose. Safety can be a concern due to body being made by fiberglass. In summary, I felt that it is a limited purposed car made for one specific reason - it belongs to the track.
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      04-30-2017, 11:54 PM   #12
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Had an 08' Exige S240 in 2008. Great balanced car provides excellent handling and driver engagement. Acceleration is good until you hit 100mph. After that, car is not as stable due to its lightweight and "limited" horsepower compare my other rides. Not meant to be driven daily or non track purpose. Safety can be a concern due to body being made by fiberglass. In summary, I felt that it is a limited purposed car made for one specific reason - it belongs to the track.
Did you ever get into a potential dire situation with it? Would you say that it also applies for the regular Elise?
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      05-01-2017, 02:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed03feng View Post
Had an 08' Exige S240 in 2008. Great balanced car provides excellent handling and driver engagement. Acceleration is good until you hit 100mph. After that, car is not as stable due to its lightweight and "limited" horsepower compare my other rides. Not meant to be driven daily or non track purpose. Safety can be a concern due to body being made by fiberglass. In summary, I felt that it is a limited purposed car made for one specific reason - it belongs to the track.
Did you ever get into a potential dire situation with it? Would you say that it also applies for the regular Elise?
I wouldn't say it is not livable driving on the street. It is just not feeling right especially with the condition of the freeway and public roads. Exige and Elise, to my best knowledge, are very similar cars in many ways so I assumed the driver input and experience would be similar. Also, don't forget that the Exige (06 when It was first launched) is almost a 11 year old car so technology is much different and improved.
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      05-01-2017, 07:26 AM   #14
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BTW, beautiful Elise. Don't you miss it?
Everyday

As far as DD, I used it as a DD for 3 years even during the winter. It is doable, especially when you are young. Getting in and out can be tough, especially if you have any back pain or lingering injuries. Pot holes and any underground entrances become an adventure. Expect many different sounds that you have never experienced before. If you cannot stand the sound of some unknown object rolling somewhere in the car, think twice about it. I've had a bolt or rock inside the sill forever, and was unable to find it. Minor leak is common from the roof even with the hard top. Windows rattling squeak coming from the seals. Mechanical sounds from the suspension... Forget about the sound system, you won't be able to hear it most of the time. Cannot use a conventional car wash due to exposed engine bay/trunk. Transmission feels great, but due to the cable system, expect to have a mis-shift once in awhile especially from 2nd to 3rd, there's a 2.5th slot that people often hits. Due to body being fiber glass, there will be some minor cracks here and there from many different reasons. And if you get into a major accident, the front clam is about 3k new. Changing a bulb is like nothing you have done before. I'm sure I'll think of more, but that's about it for now...

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      05-01-2017, 08:50 AM   #15
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Yes , it would be my weekend toy car. I have a regular sedan for everyday driving with the family. I like the M2, but is a bit too comfortable and not as raw. The E46 M3 to me was the best M car, granted I haven't tried the 1M.

Another cool reason is that they are very rare and beautiful cars, and when you add how nimble and raw they are, how can you go wrong. I was thinking on the Alfa 4c since they will be discontinued next year, but they are not manual.
Weekend car can mean many things, casual drive down PCH to a nice dinner and thrashing it at the track are still different purposes to me. Unless you're doing track or motorsports oriented stuff I would skip the Lotus.

Your wife will hate getting in and out in a skirt/dress, the a/c is like someone with asthma blowing at you through a straw, the radio/stereo is basically non existent, the roof leaks, it's a pain in the ass to get in and out and if someone taps you in traffic it will cost 3K+ to replace the clam. Plus it feels slow as hell until you rev it past 4K and even at the top of the powerband it doesn't feel 'fast'. I had to supercharge mine to 250 hp (215 rwhp) just to make it tolerable.

You can take the family out for a few hours in the M2 and it's still plenty sporty/capable on the track. It's a much much more well rounded car. Unless you're just dying to have a hardcore roadster that's nothing but a pure toy keep the M2. Put some coilovers, fixed back seats and an exhaust on it and it will feel much more 'raw'.
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      05-10-2017, 10:03 PM   #16
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2018 BMW M2  [9.50]
A much better comparison to the M2 would be an Evora S or Evora 400... at least that has 4 seats although I don't know how usable the rears are for adults.
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      05-19-2017, 01:09 AM   #17
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I drove one of my friend's old (I mean Rover/Honda engined) Elise and I swear if you were behind an X5, you'd be invisible in his rear view mirror. I was staring at the X5's immaculate exhaust pipes.. not just the tips, but all the way! I always had this irrational fear one of those SUVs would just back up into me in that car.

Having said that it was a blast to drive even with "only" 140hp and a heavy driver. "add lightness" didn't apply to this fatso.

It was surprisingly comfortable too - once you were inside. Getting out was IMHO a bit more unglamorous than getting in for a guy. For lady passengers, wear pants. No mini skirts and definitely no tight A line skirts.

It is IMHO a bit too hard core if your daily drive includes ferrying the missus.

The friend eventually got rid of the Lotus for an Ariel Atom - because in terms of usage - they were the same for him and the Ariel was a much more tactile and much more raw. Heck of a lot faster too.
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      08-23-2017, 03:31 PM   #18
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Exige owner of 2.5 yrs moves on to M2

I just took delivery of my 2017 M2 last Thursday, and since I only have room for one car of my own, I decided to put the 2009 Lotus Exige S 240 up for consignment sale. I've been a happy Exige owner for the last two and a half years, and although the M2 is less than a week old (and still in its lengthy break-in period), I think I can speak to this question.

Both cars have among the very best acceleration, traction, handling, etc. for the $50-70k price point. The Exige is a bit faster on paper, but its true strength is in cornering. Its connection to the ground and grip strength are truly astounding. In all my driving, I lost grip only once, going around a 35 mph entrance ramp at nearly 70 mph on wet pavement. In contrast, the M2's traction is "only" superb. That said, the M2 makes up for much of that shortfall with its active diff and stability control; I have far less fear of losing traction with the new M2, knowing it'll still go in the direction I'm pointing -- and I expect its compensation during tractive failures will lead me to be more confident in exploring that boundary. The Exige, with its open diff and lack of stability control, takes nerves of steel or plenty of track experience to keep control during those exceedingly rare times when the wheels do slip; the aforementioned entrance ramp rattled my nerves plenty.

I opted for the M2 with DCT. I've gotten /very/ good at shifting, but my philosophy is with the Germans: if the robots can do it better, let 'em. The gains in acceleration and fuel savings are tiny but convincing enough for me.

The difference in driver effort between the two cars is gargantuan. Visibility in the Exige totally sucks. Changing lanes to the right in it is probably the single most dangerous thing I've ever done on a public road. The manual steering makes parking more "interesting". Smooth shifts come only with a good deal of practice. Occasionally, SUV drivers don't even see you because you're too short for their mirrors. Et cetera. In stark contrast, the M2 will indeed drive like a "normal" car when you want to go for a "normal" drive -- and that's something I really learned I wanted sometimes as I owned the Exige. Sometimes you don't want to go to the effort of driving a challenging supercar. The M2 gives you that choice, but the Exige forces you into "high alert" watching-your-butt driving whether you want it or not. The consequence for me was that, time and again, I passed by the Exige in the garage and hopped into my girlfriend's Miata.

As the OP noted, you have to be willing to sacrifice comfort to own a Lotus. Sure, you have space for two and a bit of luggage, but the noise, bumpy ride, and cramped seating are concessions you'll have to make. I wore earplugs on any trip longer than an hour once I discovered that the engine noise was keeping me cruising at too low RPMs. With ear protection, I was much more willing to go longer distances at 3-4k on the tach and downshift aggressively for passing. There is one part of the noise I'll miss greatly, though: the supercharger. It's so close to the cabin, it ends up being louder than the engine when you open the throttle in the mid RPMs, and it sounds absolutely gorgeous.

I should add that the Exige was a maintenance headache. I spent about a dollar a mile fixing things, and even with all that work, little could be done about its various buzzes and rattles at certain RPMs. The M2 is a clear winner in how well the "pieces" fit together. I credit German engineering and a century of experience with high-volume mass production -- things Lotus will never have.

Compared to the Exige and my girlfriend's Miata, the M2 is a gargantuan ocean liner full of cargo space and high technology. The quiet, smooth ride are such a pleasant change for us. Did I enjoy my years with the Exige? Yes, absolutely. Do I regret moving on? A little, but less than I feared.
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      08-31-2017, 08:26 AM   #19
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The current V6 SC Exige S has evolved a bit - the stability control is very clever, learning how you react and adapting when in Race mode. Also the performance on paper and via seat of pants is a slight step up from the M2.

M2 daily and Exige V6 S would be a perfect garage for me.
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      09-01-2017, 07:40 AM   #20
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I have only driven the Elise. Awesome to drive, but I couldn’t daily drive it like I could an M2 or similar. I’m sure it’s doable but not pleasant every day....more like a once a month thing. I’m also a little chunky so getting in and out is, let’s say, challenging.
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      09-10-2017, 05:27 AM   #21
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Seriously considering replacing my V6 Exige with an M2 and can relate to much of what beej175560 says above. The Lotus really is a drivers car from heaven but everyday life means opportunities to enjoy it seem few and far between. Think I'd get more use from an M2.

It's a difficult decision but I've applied some man-math(s) type thinking to the problem.

Let's assume that a summers day out in the Exige on good roads is 10 'fun' points.
Same day, same roads in the M2 might be 6 points.

Today, in my part of UK its grey/damp again. Lotus would be maybe 5 points but I'm unlikely to take it out. M2 might also be 5 points but I'd definitely take it out.

If it rains I don't use the Lotus, no fun, no points. But the M2 would probably get a run out for 3 points?

I'd have less fun points/day in the M2 but more points/year. That's how my heads thinking anyway.

We also do 'big' Euro trips for Le Mans, Spa F1 etc. and the Lotus is just hopeless at carrying people plus tents & beer so gets left at home. Parking it is a pain in the ass, I'm paranoid about damage (Lotus parts are difficult to source even in UK).

On the other hand nothing I've ever driven comes close to the joy it gives on that 10 point sunny late summer evening..........
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      09-15-2017, 10:39 AM   #22
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Had an 06 Elise which I put a MP62 blower kit on. It was a nice toy, but just that, a toy not a complete car. M2 is an all around better car, I think it has better performance and can seat 4 people.

Lotus is way more raw, unrefined, lightweight. I think my M2 has way better turn in than the Lotus, not steering feel but turn in as the Lotus understeers from the factory. M2 has better rear end stability with the LSD too. Lotus AC sucked, interior sucked, roof leaked when it rains, and has no torque even with the blower. It's good for canyon carving, autocross and track days.

I honestly don't miss mine at all. If I wanted a hardcore track toy I would buy a non street legal car like a Radical SR3 instead.
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