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      04-26-2017, 07:02 PM   #1
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911 or M2?

Hi all:

I’ve long been a German car enthusiast: VWs (GTIs, Sciroccos, Golf Rs), BMWs (3-series sedans and a wagon, a 5-series wagon, a 135i (my favourite) and an E90 M3) and Porsche (944, 997 C2S, 991.1 C2S, and 991.2 C2.

Currently drive a Mk VII Golf R and a 991.2 coupe, which I just got in February, both manual transmissions. Love them both, the R is a keeper for these reasons:
1) all-round all-weather versatility and practicality;
2) need 4 doors for my family and daily city driving duties;
3) AWD for the harsh snowy winters.

Yet, it is still fun to drive, very refined and comfortable.

The Porsche is stellar to drive, no need to expound on that. It’s a classic iconic car, with a beautiful timeless shape.

So why am I so obsessed and infatuated with the BMW M2?

I like its wide aggressive stance, nimbleness and the idea of a small powerful fun-to-drive car that seats 4. My favourite BMW was the 135i, manual of course, for all these reasons. Plus, the reviews have been so favourable. It won motoring.com.au’s Australia’s Best Drivers Car 2016, one point ahead of the 991.2 C2S!

Reasons to flip the 911 for an M2:
- Not as expensive as the Porsche (strangely, I feel that the Porsche is quite extravagant), better bang for your buck, good performance value;
- My kids fit in the back of the Porsche, for now, but they will outgrow it, so the M2 should be better at carrying 4 people, when needed.
- Not as flashy or extravagant as a 911.
- Still a fine handling, fun-to-drive and performing car.
- Want to do European Delivery and the Nurburgring (a bucket list item)

Reasons not to flip the 911 for an M2:
- The M2’s ride might be too harsh for my liking (can always get aftermarket coilovers)
- The M2’s dim daytime instrument dials will drive me crazy (just live with it)
- Wait for the M2 Gran Coupe (4 doors!), if it comes out
- Sell both the R and the 911 and get an Audi RS3 (400 hp, 5-cylinder turbo, AWD, 4-doors!)
- I just got a new 911, it’s been my long-time dream car.

Guess I just love cars so much, and even though my current stable is awesome, there is always something else that catches my eye. Shouldn't I just be happy with the R and the 911? Is the M2 that good? Should I flip the 911 for the M2?

Having all 3 (R, 911, M2) is not an option. R and M2 makes the most sense. RS3 as my only car is also enticing, but would likely miss driving a manual (RS3 is dual-clutch automatic only).

Could wait a few years and enjoy the 911 more, and then order an M2 for European Delivery, if it’s still available - that’s probably the most prudent approach.

I’m not interested in the rumoured M2 CS or GTS. Too hardcore. Not interested in the M3 either. Nor Mercedes or any other Audi product.

Have also posted this on the rennlist.com forum.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, especially those who’ve driven both the base 991.2 and the M2.
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      04-26-2017, 07:41 PM   #2
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Is this even a question??? Keep the 911 goddammit!!
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      04-26-2017, 07:47 PM   #3
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Gtfo man, keep the 911 all day long

I'm considering m2, 1m and 991.1s. Only reason I balk on the 911 is the cost. If I could afford it easily I'd own it.

Nice new 991.2 manual? Keep it.
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      04-26-2017, 08:10 PM   #4
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I'm always surprised by the number of people on a BMW forum that recommend Porsche as the superior car.

Why? Why is the 991 the clear winner?
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      04-26-2017, 08:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm always surprised by the number of people on a BMW forum that recommend Porsche as the superior car.

Why? Why is the 991 the clear winner?
Have you driven one?

It's a dedicated 3100 lb sports car with an epic engine and the best suspension I've ever experienced in a car. Incredible ride quality with stellar handling.
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      04-26-2017, 08:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Gold View Post
Have you driven one?

It's a dedicated 3100 lb sports car with an epic engine and the best suspension I've ever experienced in a car. Incredible ride quality with stellar handling.
Absolutely right Black Gold! Wow, you said it so well.

Might I add, a fabulous 7-speed manual transmission and clutch, great steering and just an awesome feel when driving down the road, however fast or slow.

Thanks.
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      04-26-2017, 09:01 PM   #7
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I had a wonderful 911 C4S and decided to sell it last year. It was a great car but frankly more than I needed. I was also usually worried about where I parked it, etc as if it was hit you deal with diminished value. I also don't track so I never got the absolute complete experience from the car. While I was happy to own it I am now happy to have ordered a TT RS. With the TT or the M2 there are a lot more options for modifications available that also won't break the bank.

I also have an M2 CS on deposit so if I don't love the RS than there is another option.

I've learned why people love the Porsche but also understand the OP's point. The right car can replace a 911 if it's a car "you" enjoy.

The Porsche is also lower than the M2 and for some it's actually nice to sit a bit higher. I liked that about the 1M Coupe that I owned. The upright seats were more comfortable than the 18 way's I had on the Porsche believe it or not. My back never got sore in that car.
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      04-26-2017, 09:57 PM   #8
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I'd had a few months with a 991.1 from a good friend of mine early last year before I took delivery of MY2017 m2.

First thing to notice is seating position is higher with m2 adjusted to its lowest. Next, 911 is miles ahead of m2 in interior quality. Surprisingly M2 gets equally many attentions as 911, probably because a BMW looking m2 kind of sexy is not often seen.

M2 is more powerful than the 3.4L NA powered 991.1 and has a much more active rear end, which may or may not be a good thing. 991 feel much more planted and ready to go (confidence inspiring), truly a sports car from ground up.

Both cars feels small and nimble because they really are, though you will have to be much more careful with m2 when changing lane in accelerating. Steering feels identical. PDK shifts a hair smoother than MDCT at 1st and 2nd.

Overall, both are easy to drive day to day.

I am 100% sure a 991.2 with power fixed by turbo would be on a whole new level performance wise. As much as I like m2, I will pick up 911 if I'm ready to spend 911 money.
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      04-26-2017, 09:59 PM   #9
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my philosophy on cars is this.
The wider brief a car must be used for means that the it can never scale the peak of enjoyment albeit narrower use of a specialist car. Hence Golf R vs 991 C2S.
So the M2 is going to sit somewhere in between the these 2 cars, more practical than the C2S but not quite the magic on those back road blasts or on track. Still a fun and entertaining car but inevitably there are some compromises. So take your pick.
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      04-26-2017, 10:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Gold View Post
Have you driven one?

It's a dedicated 3100 lb sports car with an epic engine and the best suspension I've ever experienced in a car. Incredible ride quality with stellar handling.
No. Plan to test drive a used one when the time comes to order the M2cs. The CS will be right in the money range for a solid used 991.1.

I'm just curious. I like to hear from those that have driven both.
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      04-26-2017, 10:13 PM   #11
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I had a similar situation. At the time I had the GT4 and Golf R.

I ended up trading the R for the M2. The math is as follows:

M2>>>Golf R
GT4>>>>M2

People can armchair quarterback all day but Porsche knows how to dial in cars. No doubt. The M2 is very fun, chuckable and a good do all car. Porsches are just very special. Pasm suspension is sporty but not harsh. The engine sounds stinking amazing at full rev. The steering has the best feel out of any car I've owned. I'm glad my frugal self didn't win over the car guy side. I had to keep the GT4.

With that said I felt the Golf R was a snooze fest for me. I had it for just under 2 years. I was happy to trade it. Tons more smiles per mile in the M2. Engine sounds better car handles better. It has a personality. The suspension is just slightly on the harsh side but I don't mind.

The M2 does have less utility but my wife's suv fills in there. Also don't forget the M2 has mounts for a roof rack so it can carry quite bit as needed.
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      04-26-2017, 10:27 PM   #12
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I'll chip in my two cents and say I love my M2. I've not driven a 991.2 but have driven a 997 C4S and that thing was pure magic; leagues beyond the M for tactility and focus. When I'm done with my M2 in a few years I'll be getting a 911 GTS.

FWIW, I think the M2 destroys the Golf R for fun factor; I talked a friend into buying the latter because he wanted a more well-rounded and practical car for the reasons the OP mentioned (plus it's way cheaper) but the R inspires massive respect and zero passion from me as a driver's car.
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      04-26-2017, 10:38 PM   #13
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I saw your post on rennlist too. I will throw in my opinions. I had a MK6 R prior to the M2. I know the MK7 R is a drastic improvement to the MK6, but I get the general appeal and behavior of the R. It's a good car.

I wanted to replace it with a 911 and I drove many 997.2s but couldn't find the right configuration and was ultimately scared of buying it used. I loved, *loved* all the 997s I drove. I never did try a 991, but I did try many 981s. 991's were out of my price range at the time.

I ended up getting the M2 mostly on price. For the price it's a screaming deal. To cut the story short - I still dream about a 911 and I am still looking. I just can't get over the price. If you already have a 911 I see absolutely no reason to trade that for a M2. Maybe if it was a money issue, but other than that just keep the 911. A M2 is not a Porsche - it's not that good. I will always dream about a 911. Maybe we both have a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side..."

Now back to tracking 991 GTS prices......
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      04-26-2017, 10:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsie View Post
Hi all:

I’ve long been a German car enthusiast: VWs (GTIs, Sciroccos, Golf Rs), BMWs (3-series sedans and a wagon, a 5-series wagon, a 135i (my favourite) and an E90 M3) and Porsche (944, 997 C2S, 991.1 C2S, and 991.2 C2.

Currently drive a Mk VII Golf R and a 991.2 coupe, which I just got in February, both manual transmissions. Love them both, the R is a keeper for these reasons:
1) all-round all-weather versatility and practicality;
2) need 4 doors for my family and daily city driving duties;
3) AWD for the harsh snowy winters.

Yet, it is still fun to drive, very refined and comfortable.

The Porsche is stellar to drive, no need to expound on that. It’s a classic iconic car, with a beautiful timeless shape.

So why am I so obsessed and infatuated with the BMW M2?

I like its wide aggressive stance, nimbleness and the idea of a small powerful fun-to-drive car that seats 4. My favourite BMW was the 135i, manual of course, for all these reasons. Plus, the reviews have been so favourable. It won motoring.com.au’s Australia’s Best Drivers Car 2016, one point ahead of the 991.2 C2S!

Reasons to flip the 911 for an M2:
- Not as expensive as the Porsche (strangely, I feel that the Porsche is quite extravagant), better bang for your buck, good performance value;
- My kids fit in the back of the Porsche, for now, but they will outgrow it, so the M2 should be better at carrying 4 people, when needed.
- Not as flashy or extravagant as a 911.
- Still a fine handling, fun-to-drive and performing car.
- Want to do European Delivery and the Nurburgring (a bucket list item)

Reasons not to flip the 911 for an M2:
- The M2’s ride might be too harsh for my liking (can always get aftermarket coilovers)
- The M2’s dim daytime instrument dials will drive me crazy (just live with it)
- Wait for the M2 Gran Coupe (4 doors!), if it comes out
- Sell both the R and the 911 and get an Audi RS3 (400 hp, 5-cylinder turbo, AWD, 4-doors!)
- I just got a new 911, it’s been my long-time dream car.

Guess I just love cars so much, and even though my current stable is awesome, there is always something else that catches my eye. Shouldn't I just be happy with the R and the 911? Is the M2 that good? Should I flip the 911 for the M2?

Having all 3 (R, 911, M2) is not an option. R and M2 makes the most sense. RS3 as my only car is also enticing, but would likely miss driving a manual (RS3 is dual-clutch automatic only).

Could wait a few years and enjoy the 911 more, and then order an M2 for European Delivery, if it’s still available - that’s probably the most prudent approach.

I’m not interested in the rumoured M2 CS or GTS. Too hardcore. Not interested in the M3 either. Nor Mercedes or any other Audi product.

Have also posted this on the rennlist.com forum.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, especially those who’ve driven both the base 991.2 and the M2.
pics plz!
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      04-26-2017, 11:38 PM   #15
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The only argument for trading the 911 - M2 will be much cheaper to service...

But since you have the GoRf already, you have no need for real back seats in a second car, so this is a no-brainer. Keep the Porsche.
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      04-27-2017, 12:08 AM   #16
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Gt3RS weekends - M2 weekdays
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      04-27-2017, 12:47 AM   #17
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If I may douche-ily interject from the 1M board...
"It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up." - Ferris Bueller
If it were my druthers I'd lose the R, get an M2 manual or 1M, and then put the kiddies in the wife's Macan.
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      04-27-2017, 01:07 AM   #18
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Best option is always both.
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      04-27-2017, 06:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post

I'm just curious. I like to hear from those that have driven both.
I've driven both and the ONLY reason I'm picking the M2CS over a 911 is that the M2 has a usable back seat for my kids. Straight line speed is meaningless to me these days since all performance cars are faster than I can fully exploit legally, so the superior handling & response of the 911 is what sets it ahead for me.
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      04-27-2017, 06:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsie View Post
Hi all:

I’ve long been a German car enthusiast: VWs (GTIs, Sciroccos, Golf Rs), BMWs (3-series sedans and a wagon, a 5-series wagon, a 135i (my favourite) and an E90 M3) and Porsche (944, 997 C2S, 991.1 C2S, and 991.2 C2.

Currently drive a Mk VII Golf R and a 991.2 coupe, which I just got in February, both manual transmissions. Love them both, the R is a keeper for these reasons:
1) all-round all-weather versatility and practicality;
2) need 4 doors for my family and daily city driving duties;
3) AWD for the harsh snowy winters.

Yet, it is still fun to drive, very refined and comfortable.

The Porsche is stellar to drive, no need to expound on that. It’s a classic iconic car, with a beautiful timeless shape.

So why am I so obsessed and infatuated with the BMW M2?

I like its wide aggressive stance, nimbleness and the idea of a small powerful fun-to-drive car that seats 4. My favourite BMW was the 135i, manual of course, for all these reasons. Plus, the reviews have been so favourable. It won motoring.com.au’s Australia’s Best Drivers Car 2016, one point ahead of the 991.2 C2S!

Reasons to flip the 911 for an M2:
- Not as expensive as the Porsche (strangely, I feel that the Porsche is quite extravagant), better bang for your buck, good performance value;
- My kids fit in the back of the Porsche, for now, but they will outgrow it, so the M2 should be better at carrying 4 people, when needed.
- Not as flashy or extravagant as a 911.
- Still a fine handling, fun-to-drive and performing car.
- Want to do European Delivery and the Nurburgring (a bucket list item)

Reasons not to flip the 911 for an M2:
- The M2’s ride might be too harsh for my liking (can always get aftermarket coilovers)
- The M2’s dim daytime instrument dials will drive me crazy (just live with it)
- Wait for the M2 Gran Coupe (4 doors!), if it comes out
- Sell both the R and the 911 and get an Audi RS3 (400 hp, 5-cylinder turbo, AWD, 4-doors!)
- I just got a new 911, it’s been my long-time dream car.

Guess I just love cars so much, and even though my current stable is awesome, there is always something else that catches my eye. Shouldn't I just be happy with the R and the 911? Is the M2 that good? Should I flip the 911 for the M2?

Having all 3 (R, 911, M2) is not an option. R and M2 makes the most sense. RS3 as my only car is also enticing, but would likely miss driving a manual (RS3 is dual-clutch automatic only).

Could wait a few years and enjoy the 911 more, and then order an M2 for European Delivery, if it’s still available - that’s probably the most prudent approach.

I’m not interested in the rumoured M2 CS or GTS. Too hardcore. Not interested in the M3 either. Nor Mercedes or any other Audi product.

Have also posted this on the rennlist.com forum.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, especially those who’ve driven both the base 991.2 and the M2.
Like you the 911 has always been my dream car since I was a little kid. I never really thought about getting a nice car until I finished fellowship and actually started working. That's when I bought my e92 M3 and it was fantastic. Drove it for 6 years 50,000 miles.

I started looking at cars this past fall and I test drive the macan and the base Porsche 911.2 with pdk and MT. I even brought my son to make sure he could fit in the back seat of the 911 because he's pretty tall for his age. I really liked the 911 (carmine red, performance exhaust), but ultimately decided on ordering the m2 with the DCT. I ordered the M2 sight unseen and part of the reason was economics and the fear that my kid wouldn't be able to fit in the back. When I priced out the 911 it was twice as much as the M2. I could afford it but with three kids, student loans, and a wife it was the better decision to go with the m2

Overall I am happy with the m2, I actually think the steering is better in the m2 than the 911. The 911 electric steering felt very synthetic to me. The m2 is as good as my previous e92 M3. The base 911 is a lot faster and more nimble than the m2 but the m2 is no slouch. For the money you can't beat it.

Having said that I do miss my e92 M3 and I still have dreams of a 911 .... if it's been your dream car and you already own it I would keep it a while longer.
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      04-27-2017, 06:39 AM   #21
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      04-27-2017, 08:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I'm always surprised by the number of people on a BMW forum that recommend Porsche as the superior car.

Why? Why is the 991 the clear winner?
Most guys on here can't afford a 911. People want what they can't have. And the 911 costs more, so it must be better. I've driven and owned many 911s. They were incredible back in the day, but they started going downhill with the 991 (with the larger size and rigged "7-speed" manual transmission, based on a PDK box). And now with the 991.2 small turbo-charged engine they don't even resemble the 911 of old. Bang for the buck? M2 all day. And it's way more practical, too. If you are going to go Porsche, save your pennies for a GT3 or GT4 (although horribly impractical, these are real sports cars). Or buy a used 997. Otherwise, go M2. Although I'd recommend a gently used 6MT E92 M3 with the iconic S65 over an M2. Talk about bang for your buck!
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