[Zap]

This is an offshoot from my other post, F30 335i xDrive Nightmares.

Purchased a '14 335i xDrive (6MT) to replace our '07 335i Sport Coupe (6MT).
We have had numerous loaner cars over the course of our unresolved service issues. These are a 328xi, ’17 430xi GC, ’16 340xi, ’16 228xi, and another yet undetermined until our car returns to the shop for the recurrent error messages plaguing it.

Sadly, all of these cars seem to feel and perform better than our car. Nothing like driving the whole fleet for weeks to open your eyes! After research I’ve determined that many changes were made to the LCI vehicles, and BMW must have fixed (at least in part) a lot of the complaints and beefs that people had with the F30 (especially steering, but there were also extensive suspension, power, and overall handling changes - plus possibly transmission?).

Last night I drove the 335xi after tooling around in the 228xi all month. I have some serious questions for anyone versed heavily with F30 pre and post LCI cars, xDrive vs RWD, and comparison between coupes and sedans.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of what is so wrongly unpleasant with our car, so that when we purchase another CPO or a new car, we are happy for the long haul. I don't know whether the electrical issues are causing any faults in responsiveness, and with just under 30k on the clock I doubt bad parts would have gone unnoticed with all the shop time the car has had.

I will give the disclaimer that as an engineer I have an anal attention to detail and nuance, however my girlfriend agrees that things just don't feel right with our present car.

This leaves me to suspect that we changed too much by purchasing this car. The '07 was a RWD e92 coupe and we moved to a '14 F30 AWD sedan. When I've asked people (some at dealerships), a few people have commented that the xDrive is what made our new car a "dog" as compared to before. One owned a F30 RWD sedan, so I trusted he'd know something about it.

The problem is that we've driven multiple LCI xDrive cars and they all seem to be a lot better than what we're used to. Maybe the RWD would still feel differently, but I was incredibly impressed by the '16 340xi. Great power, didn't even need to put the car into sport mode to be impressed. Comparing it to our '14 IN sport mode, it feels like a massively different car! And I realize the power improvements, but the way it puts power to the road and handles feels more like what I'd expect from a BMW.

The major disclaimer here is that our car is obviously 6MT vs the automatic loaners. Normally I'd greatly prefer returning to the manual. Definitely was always the case with our past cars (and my e93 M3).

So, if anyone who has owned both non-LCI and LCI F-series could chime in on their own observations I'd be curious to hear more. (Or if you've gone from e9x to F3x LCI, I'm curious too). Maybe part of the problem IS our car, I'd just like to know before we look into something new.

[jeffc83]

There has been some discussion here as to the "better build quality" in the LCIs and of course there were enhancements. My take on it is that you did in fact receive some sort of lemon because I've driven a 2014 rental 335 for a month, my 2015 328, a 2016 F30 (don't remember what now lol) and an M235. When I got back in my car, it felt the same except for the sound system and I'm over it now so it wasn't a big deal. (I think they tweaked something there in the LCI) Now this is a different story for another time but I felt the 235 was more "ME" in terms of road feel. It allowed me to push it with the back end constantly having "fun back there, lol" Very nimble and fun car to drive!!!!

The one thing I can safely say they addressed are the creaking issues unless someone that does have an LCI can identify this is incorrect and it's still present.

I prefer the 8AT but can see why you still want a manual....this is all opinionated anyway so get what you like!

Best of luck to you!

[ynguldyn]

Coupes and GCs have a significantly different suspension geometry. x30i and x40i models use a significantly updated 8HP50TU automatic transmission with gear ratios very different from the previous iteration, 8HP45 (note that transmission model depends on the engine, not LCI). This should be enough for you to feel like you're driving a different car. And don't forget suspension improvements done throughout 2015 (some with LCI like shocks, others just prior to LCI like 5 point front strut mounts).

These little - and not so little - things are why 4 out of 5 BMWs in our family have been LCIs (and the 5th one was arguably better pre-LCI - the last month of 135i N54 production).

[Buzzo]

Didn't own a 335ix, but have had several back-to-back test drives with both a manual and an automatic 335ix with and without Adaptive Suspension. Bought a 6sp 340ix with Adaptive Suspension and had half a day at the Performance Center with an auto 340i.
The difference between with and without Adaptive Suspension is significant in the 335ix; it changes the character of the car. Not a fan of auto's and the ZF8 didn't change that. Has too many gears to consistently manually shift and it just felt a lot less engaging. On the track the auto 340i was a lot of fun, though most of it could be done in 2nd or 3rd gear.
The 6sp 340ix is a big step up from the 335ix. The B58/6-speed combo is just marvelous. Also prefer the suspension, though the steering is still lacking.

[xlover]

I have a 14 335 xdrive 6mt. Manual purists will disagree but I feel like the 8at is just much better matched for this motor. The first few gears in the 6 speed are spaced pretty widely and you can fall out of boost too easily when you are driving normally then all of a sudden feel like you want a bit of power which leads to the "dogish feeling" I get pretty annoyed by it. Now on top of that the LCI has a tighter suspension and the B58 is an all around better engine. My buddy has a 340xi 8at and neither of us has adaptive suspension and I can feel exactly what you are feeling each individual LCI upgrade improves on the 335 but as a whole it feels more of the sum of the upgrades.
I am retiring from manuals and going 8at this summer and going to grab a 440 LCI for an even tighter suspension than the 3.

[Zap]

Well, it sounds like we're not completely out of line here. I wish I could drive a 340 with MT, but have not seen any even semi-locally as of yet.

I honestly had a huge beef with the AT shifting on some of the cars we've driven. I get that sport mode will be more aggressive, but on multiple occasions the 228 would just dwell in gear at higher rpm after acceleration ceased for a massively long time. Maybe a software issue for that vehicle, because I don't recall that happening on the '17 340 we drove. The AT on that car was much more refined, and I agreed with the reviews that it is probably one of the best torque converted autos on the market. Much more enjoyable for the MT driver than most.

We've never driven a 4 series (just our older 3 coupes) so maybe that would be in order to determine if we prefer it to the 3. I wish I could find examples of RWD to compare as well, but the LCI xDrive cars have really felt a lot better so I'm torn about having two sets of tires for a car when Michelin's A/S 3+ tires outperform summer only tires and can handle snow. Especially since we don't put on that many miles per year, but we did manage with tire swaps in the past.

I'm also wondering if part of the bad experience with our own car is that every single service visit has resulted in a need for programming or software updates. Since they wipe everything else, I'm gathering all the adaptations in the DME are lost as well (though I haven't asked this before). It seems like a few days later the car isn't quite as awful as it was when we picked it up, at least for acceleration. We do have the active suspension with the dynamic handling package if that is relevant to the discussion as well.

One of the things we've noticed is the car feels like it has a lot more body roll and motion vs the other cars feeling more connected to the road and more nimble.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Zap

but on multiple occasions the 228 would just dwell in gear at higher rpm after acceleration ceased for a massively long time. Maybe a software issue for that vehicle, because I don't recall that happening on the '17 340 we drove. The AT on that car was much more refined,

Because the new transmission.

For some reason, ZF website no longer has their original press release, but here's an article covering the main points: http://www.caradvice.com.au/303399/z...-transmission/

One of the things we've noticed is the car feels like it has a lot more body roll and motion vs the other cars feeling more connected to the road and more nimble.

This must be a very stupid question, but anyway: do you have the sport mode configured as "chassis only" or "drivetrain and chassis", and not "drivertrain only"?

[Zap]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Because the new transmission.

This must be a very stupid question, but anyway: do you have the sport mode configured as "chassis only" or "drivetrain and chassis", and not "drivertrain only"?

Yeah, that makes sense - I don't recall the older 328 we drove being as refined either. As the numbers dwindle on the MT, more drivers interested in performance have surely made for higher expectations of the AT models.

Yeah, sport mode is configured for drivetrain and chassis. You can tell the suspension is better in sport mode. That said, performance and chassis felt a lot better in comfort mode on the 340 vs sport mode on the 335. That's the real kicker for us. Not to mention I think that the 28 and especially 30 models probably have bridged the gap in feel due to everything coming with turbo these days. IMHO, when I first test drove the e9x cars the differences were much larger than they are now.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Zap

Well, it sounds like we're not completely out of line here. I wish I could drive a 340 with MT, but have not seen any even semi-locally as of yet.

I honestly had a huge beef with the AT shifting on some of the cars we've driven. I get that sport mode will be more aggressive, but on multiple occasions the 228 would just dwell in gear at higher rpm after acceleration ceased for a massively long time. Maybe a software issue for that vehicle, because I don't recall that happening on the '17 340 we drove. The AT on that car was much more refined, and I agreed with the reviews that it is probably one of the best torque converted autos on the market. Much more enjoyable for the MT driver than most.

We've never driven a 4 series (just our older 3 coupes) so maybe that would be in order to determine if we prefer it to the 3. I wish I could find examples of RWD to compare as well, but the LCI xDrive cars have really felt a lot better so I'm torn about having two sets of tires for a car when Michelin's A/S 3+ tires outperform summer only tires and can handle snow. Especially since we don't put on that many miles per year, but we did manage with tire swaps in the past.

I'm also wondering if part of the bad experience with our own car is that every single service visit has resulted in a need for programming or software updates. Since they wipe everything else, I'm gathering all the adaptations in the DME are lost as well (though I haven't asked this before). It seems like a few days later the car isn't quite as awful as it was when we picked it up, at least for acceleration. We do have the active suspension with the dynamic handling package if that is relevant to the discussion as well.

One of the things we've noticed is the car feels like it has a lot more body roll and motion vs the other cars feeling more connected to the road and more nimble.

From what I've seen, the 335 suspension was worse than the LCI. There's less body roll in sport mode.

[xlover]

It's worth noting if you do not have the adaptive suspension chassis setting is basically pointless. Does not affect anything.

[oarnura]

Originally Posted by xlover

It's worth noting if you do not have the adaptive suspension chassis setting is basically pointless. Does not affect anything.

It still changes the steering weight.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by oarnura

It still changes the steering weight.

Only if you have the variable sport steering that came with the dynamic handling package pre LCI. That package also had the adaptive suspension.

[oarnura]

Originally Posted by xlover

Only if you have the variable sport steering that came with the dynamic handling package pre LCI. That package also had the adaptive suspension.

Are you sure? The 320i loaner I got made the steering firmer in sport mode.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by xlover

Only if you have the variable sport steering that came with the dynamic handling package pre LCI. That package also had the adaptive suspension.

This is incorrect.

Moreover, the OP specified that his car had 2VF, so this whole argument is moot.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

This is incorrect.

Moreover, the OP specified that his car had 2VF, so this whole argument is moot.

Interesting I had long been under the impression the steering feel only changed with the upgrade. Certainly doesn't feel much different.