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      10-24-2016, 11:09 AM   #1
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2017 Camaro ZL1 laps the Nurburgring in 7:29.60



I am not particularly interested in a camaro, but it's impossible to say this is not impressive. This is a better time than many super cars within the last 5-10 years. I hope this increased pressure from the American car makers pushes BMW to step up their game with the M2 CS (or CSL or w/e).
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      10-24-2016, 06:02 PM   #2
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Although it would be nice for those of us in America, I doubt that BMW looks at Camaro and Mustang as rivals. They compare M2 to RS3 and A45, where it is competitive.
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      10-24-2016, 07:24 PM   #3
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That was incredible!

Most mesmerizing lap I've seen.

That motor and transmission are awesome.
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      10-24-2016, 07:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClothSeats View Post
Although it would be nice for those of us in America, I doubt that BMW looks at Camaro and Mustang as rivals. They compare M2 to RS3 and A45, where it is competitive.
I would say it's not just about performance. Camaros and mustangs tend to fall off when you start looking at the interior. I understand that these cars are performance-oriented side but you spend almost all your time inside a car.
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      10-24-2016, 08:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
That was incredible!

Most mesmerizing lap I've seen.

That motor and transmission are awesome.
Yeah, I believe the 10-speed has a lot to do with it. He rarely drops below 4K rpms.
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      10-24-2016, 08:56 PM   #6
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From Chevrolet:

The only changes made to the ZL1 were the installation of data acquisition equipment, a roll hoop and Sparco racing seats with six-point harnesses. Otherwise, the car was production stock and included the following:
  • 6.2-liter supercharged LT4 V-8 making 650 horsepower and 650 lb-ft of torque
  • All-new 10R90 10-speed automatic transmission (set to Track mode to enable Performance Algorithm Shift calibration, providing optimal gear selection without the need to manually select gears)
  • FE4 Suspension with Magnetic Ride Control
  • Performance Traction Management
  • Forged 20-inch wheels with Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 tires
  • Brembo brakes with front 15.4-inch rotors and six-piston calipers and rear 14.4-inch rotors and four-piston calipers
  • Lift-reducing front fascia elements with cooling ducts and Chevrolet “flowtie”
  • Full underbody shielding
  • ZL1-specific rear spoiler and diffuser
  • 11 heat exchangers
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      10-24-2016, 09:12 PM   #7
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Meh, I'd rather have one of these:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...ring-lap-time/
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      10-25-2016, 02:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Apples to oranges but point taken.

6:14 BTG is still incredible with only 480HP and half an F1 car with a roof and body(what a modern DTM car actually is)

650HP and 7:29 whole lap by a pro driver and modern tyres is also great but not so much relatively spoken.

Are there any BMW M cars with 650BHP stock? Don't think so

Take a look at Giulia, GT3RS, even M4GTS with 150HP less and a few more seconds.

Oh it's about the pricetag you say....

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      10-25-2016, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
That was incredible!

Most mesmerizing lap I've seen.

That motor and transmission are awesome.
You want to see a mesmerizing lap in a 4 door streetcar? Look at this



140HP less, 4 seats saloon lol. And driving at nearly 100% most of the time!

Viva Italia

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      10-25-2016, 05:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
You want to see a mesmerizing lap in a 4 door streetcar? Look at this



140HP less, 4 seats saloon lol. And driving at nearly 100% most of the time!

Viva Italia

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That is not a street car! You can hear pinging and creaking and there is zero body roll plus a driver bouncing up and down like a kangaroo. Stripped interior, worked suspension, and who knows what else? That is not a street car and no one in a stock Giulia QV that they bought from a dealer will get anywhere near this lap time. This is an embarrassing and unnecessary act of fraud from a manufacturer with a car good that's enough that it doesn't have to compete with being faster around anything.

Last edited by ilovewagons; 10-25-2016 at 05:25 AM..
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      10-25-2016, 06:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovewagons View Post
That is not a street car! You can hear pinging and creaking and there is zero body roll plus a driver bouncing up and down like a kangaroo. Stripped interior, worked suspension, and who knows what else? That is not a street car and no one in a stock Giulia QV that they bought from a dealer will get anywhere near this lap time. This is an embarrassing and unnecessary act of fraud from a manufacturer with a car good that's enough that it doesn't have to compete with being faster around anything.
It might be a street car, but I think it's been modified just a wee bit. That exhaust!
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      10-25-2016, 07:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
You want to see a mesmerizing lap in a 4 door streetcar? Look at this



140HP less, 4 seats saloon lol. And driving at nearly 100% most of the time!

Viva Italia

Cheers
Robin
Did the driver do this lap on his lunch break?
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      10-25-2016, 08:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovewagons View Post
That is not a street car! You can hear pinging and creaking and there is zero body roll plus a driver bouncing up and down like a kangaroo. Stripped interior, worked suspension, and who knows what else? That is not a street car and no one in a stock Giulia QV that they bought from a dealer will get anywhere near this lap time. This is an embarrassing and unnecessary act of fraud from a manufacturer with a car good that's enough that it doesn't have to compete with being faster around anything.
Not sure if my sarcasm meter is broken
As if that Camaro was stock? I don't think so either.

AFAIK special P Zero semis but not a stripped interior(Alfa) . Anybody here who knows exactly what they did to that Giulia?

Anyway, real world numbers are from Sportauto carmag, driven by 'independent' journos like Horst, Gebhard or Sener.
This is Manufacturer vs Manufacturer marketing stuff.

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      10-25-2016, 08:39 PM   #14
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Lol, maybe I need to recalibrate my sarcasm detector. The Camaro sounds like it has a full interior and something approaching normal suspension, judging by the driver not pogoing up and down through the lap. Keep in mind it has a lot of power and, importantly for the 'Ring, a shitload of tire.

The Alfa on the other hand is just deceptive bullshit. Minimum of stripped interior, completely different suspension and probably a different engine tune judging by the sound of that exhaust.
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      10-25-2016, 08:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P4rD0nM3 View Post
I would say it's not just about performance. Camaros and mustangs tend to fall off when you start looking at the interior. I understand that these cars are performance-oriented side but you spend almost all your time inside a car.
+1

Can't stand either of those car's interior
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      10-26-2016, 11:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClothSeats View Post
Although it would be nice for those of us in America, I doubt that BMW looks at Camaro and Mustang as rivals. They compare M2 to RS3 and A45, where it is competitive.
They should consider them as rivals. There are people on this very forum who've gone on and bought GT350Rs because BMW did not offer something comparable and at a similar price point.

I don't think the gap between german cars and american cars is what it used to be and it would be really foolish for BMW to not realize that.
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      10-27-2016, 08:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Not sure if my sarcasm meter is broken
As if that Camaro was stock? I don't think so either.
You didn't read the article. Aside from the safety equipment (seats and roll bar), the car was stock.
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      10-29-2016, 08:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjones14 View Post
You didn't read the article. Aside from the safety equipment (seats and roll bar), the car was stock.
Oh yes, I read the article, I just don't believe them that's all.
Just like the Giulia was so called stock.
Or that FWD Golf L.E GTI Clubsport whatever, totally NS prepared...

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      10-29-2016, 10:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Oh yes, I read the article, I just don't believe them that's all.
Just like the Giulia was so called stock.
Or that FWD Golf L.E GTI Clubsport whatever, totally NS prepared...

Cheers
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What do you think Chevrolet lied about and cheated on to obtain that time?
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      10-29-2016, 12:36 PM   #20
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I could see this time as believable. The 450hp 1LE was only a tenth behind the M4 GTS at Laguna.
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      10-29-2016, 02:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjones14 View Post
You didn't read the article. Aside from the safety equipment (seats and roll bar), the car was stock.
Oh yes, I read the article, I just don't believe them that's all.
Just like the Giulia was so called stock.
Or that FWD Golf L.E GTI Clubsport whatever, totally NS prepared...

Cheers
Robin
No one lied about Camaro or the Golf. You are free not to believe but it doesn't change the fact that you can buy one of these cars with same configuration from factory, which is called "stock". Just because the Golf has roll cage, R compund tires, special suspension etc doesn't mean that the car was modified specifically for the test on the Ring. It's limited production (200 cars) car just like M4 GTS. According to your logic, BMW cheated too when they tested the M4 GTS on the Ring because it's heavily modded track ready car compared to the stock M4.
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      10-29-2016, 03:07 PM   #22
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I will say that I agree with Ford on the importance of standards though. It is an honor system currently:
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/moto...es-are-rubbish
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