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      09-11-2016, 10:48 AM   #1
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(Scans) M2 VS 718 Cayman S (BBC Top Gear October)

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      09-11-2016, 01:58 PM   #2
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Professionalism is all there really is to say about the 4 pot Cayman!
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      09-11-2016, 08:01 PM   #3
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I am debating these two as we speak to get. but here in Canada a m2 tx in will run me $75k CAD .....a 718 S specd with similar content as m2 would push north of $100k easily hence why I am looking at base cayman....get to track both mon the base and S for comparison.
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      09-11-2016, 09:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dalrx View Post
I am debating these two as we speak to get. but here in Canada a m2 tx in will run me $75k CAD .....a 718 S specd with similar content as m2 would push north of $100k easily hence why I am looking at base cayman....get to track both mon the base and S for comparison.
I suggest you check the previous generation Cayman with the flat 6. I believe it's a better car: it may not be as (marginally) quick as the new turbocharged one but the flat 6 is a pure gem. You can get it for much less than the new generation... Here in AUS, a very lightly used (2600km) 981 cayman S is at around $120K and a bare bone demo M2 at $105K.
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      09-11-2016, 09:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Professionalism is all there really is to say about the 4 pot Cayman!
I think the reviewer was not emotionally impressed by the turbocharged flat 4, which he compared to a Subaru flat 4!
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      09-11-2016, 11:13 PM   #6
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Professionalism is all there really is to say about the 4 pot Cayman!
I think the reviewer was not emotionally impressed by the turbocharged flat 4, which he compared to a Subaru flat 4!
Professionalism means just that - get the job done perfectly without but being emotionally attached to it. It so precisely summarizes the 718.
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      09-12-2016, 01:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I suggest you check the previous generation Cayman with the flat 6. I believe it's a better car: it may not be as (marginally) quick as the new turbocharged one but the flat 6 is a pure gem. You can get it for much less than the new generation... Here in AUS, a very lightly used (2600km) 981 cayman S is at around $120K and a bare bone demo M2 at $105K.
Plus 1 on checking out at 981S. Awesome car.
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      09-12-2016, 03:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I suggest you check the previous generation Cayman with the flat 6. I believe it's a better car: it may not be as (marginally) quick as the new turbocharged one but the flat 6 is a pure gem. You can get it for much less than the new generation... Here in AUS, a very lightly used (2600km) 981 cayman S is at around $120K and a bare bone demo M2 at $105K.
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Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Plus 1 on checking out at 981S. Awesome car.
I went with a 981S last June - I was really disappointed to not get a 1M in 2011, and wanted to wait for the M2...but after I test drove the 981, all thoughts of waiting went out the window.

The daily experience is truly awesome - as I am sure it is on the M2 as well - the 981 S is not as fast as the M2 or 718S for sure. I am sure the torque on the latter two are also intoxicating. Not a bad choice amongst all three to be honest. I am sure the 718S is a gem to drive...but if the experience is lacking a bit because of the sound, the M2 seems like a better (and more economical) choice. Still need to drive both, which I hope to accomplish sooner rather than later.

I also don't buy the Porsche marketing BS about the turbo 4 being about emissions...or that a turbo 6 wouldn't fit - there are many turbo kits available for the 981 - I think this move was all about moving the Boxster and Cayman down market. You really want the Porsche F6 howl? Gotta get a 911. Or GT4...if they make it again.

Here's the sound of my 981 CS after getting the PSE retrofitted - it's really pretty great and I look forward to the commute to and from work each day...and all the other random rides that I go on.

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      09-12-2016, 05:58 PM   #9
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Ok back from track day and testing out the boxster 718 S in different guises. Basically had a bunch of boxsters with different wheel size setups all pdk , one in each grouping had PTV, PASM, Sport chrono, rest were normal PDK S's with different seats/tire size setup. Got a quick go over with driving instructors, seat position etc. We went out in groups of three, almost follow the leader and opened them up on the track, no passing, but full on. This is my first time, tracking and my first time in a boxster/cayman setup. These cars are like scalpels on the track, almost perfect. The handling is unbelievable. I remember driving initially in BMW with salesmen and they told me it felt like being on rails. Well other than maybe M cars, these boxster S's were many levels above that. My 228i msport is no comparison. The Porsche stuck like glue on the twisties, grip unbelievable, we were pulling over 1.0g easily. Throttle on it instant torque and go, right out of the corner. Onto straightway hammered the throttle hold on! PDK instant shifts, engine just poured on the power straight on down to 200kph, then hard on the brakes. Grip, brakes, handling, power, gearbox, stearing, all top of class. Now sound, well not being able to compare with previous gen cayman/boxster, I will say I was not disappointed in the sound from these cars. There was snaps and burbles from the exhaust. The car with Sport Chrono when you put it in sport made the exhaust sound even better. On the straight when I floored it the cabin filled with sound, way way more than my 228i and the fake sound from my buddies m235i puts out. I am not sure if the m2 sounds the same but I was not disappointed. Put the sport exhaust on these cars and you get even more. Everything on the track was like a blur, just adrenaline, excitement. You just drove, no time for the cars creature comforts. So overall saying this car is simply professional is a complete farse! Everyone that did the track day, even my driving partener (who by the way owns a gt4) came away with smiles on our faces. I do not think you could go wrong at all with a boxster/cayman S for a track car or DD. It is ready to go out the box. My only issue is not being able to drive the base model...as that is what I would lean toward due to pricing and manual trans as PDK for me would take away from normal driving. PDK is a must for track though, it will shift for you, you just drive, I understand this now. That being said I would totally want to test drive a m2 to compare, however that is impossible unless owner would allow or dealer. Also it will be easier to get a cayman than the m2, if it comes down to it. To sum it up, cayman 718 is now much higher on my radar now than before!
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      09-12-2016, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I went with a 981S last June - I was really disappointed to not get a 1M in 2011, and wanted to wait for the M2...but after I test drove the 981, all thoughts of waiting went out the window.

The daily experience is truly awesome - as I am sure it is on the M2 as well - the 981 S is not as fast as the M2 or 718S for sure. I am sure the torque on the latter two are also intoxicating. Not a bad choice amongst all three to be honest. I am sure the 718S is a gem to drive...but if the experience is lacking a bit because of the sound, the M2 seems like a better (and more economical) choice. Still need to drive both, which I hope to accomplish sooner rather than later.

I also don't buy the Porsche marketing BS about the turbo 4 being about emissions...or that a turbo 6 wouldn't fit - there are many turbo kits available for the 981 - I think this move was all about moving the Boxster and Cayman down market. You really want the Porsche F6 howl? Gotta get a 911. Or GT4...if they make it again.

Here's the sound of my 981 CS after getting the PSE retrofitted - it's really pretty great and I look forward to the commute to and from work each day...and all the other random rides that I go on.

Great choice! Love the 981! Yes, I agree that fitting a flat 4 into the 718 was to differentiate it from the 911 which the 981 was getting too close to...
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      09-13-2016, 07:34 AM   #11
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Good impressions dalrx - I think the 718 is going to be an interesting car for Porsche. Many folks on Planet 9 are pissed over the drop to the F4, the addition of turbos, the exhaust sound, etc...but you can't deny that the car is going to be a great performer. And better than the 981 - progress is inevitable and SHOULD be apparent for each facelift or new generation.

With that being said, this is no different than the 1M vs. M2 conversation - do you want more of an analog experience? There are older options that might fill that void a little better. Do you want the newest, most advanced tech that BMW or Porsche have? Well, there are options for that as well.

Coming from a 235, I was shocked at how much better "sorted" the 981 was - and it really ticked the boxes where the 235 fell far short, namely the suspension was much tighter and confidence-inspiring, the chassis was was better, the brakes (even the steel ones) are phenomenal, etc...but this is why we have choices too. Lots of good ones here.
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      09-13-2016, 07:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Great choice! Love the 981! Yes, I agree that fitting a flat 4 into the 718 was to differentiate it from the 911 which the 981 was getting too close to...
Same reason they didn't give the GT4 a PDK...or gears that weren't insanely long...is there any reason you should be able to go 81 MPH in second gear? There are estimates out there that the GT4 would do 0-60 MPH in about 3.4 or 3.5 seconds with a PDK and slightly shorter gears. No additional BHP necessary. It's just all about protecting the 911 (which I have never lusted after and don't figure to ever want anyway).

The 987 was the car that got me interested in Porsche - and it culminated in purchasing the 981 that I have now. But it does suck that manufacturers do this shit to us - it's the same with the M2. They could have made the car superior to the M3/4, which have gotten bigger and (marginally ) heavier. But they want to protect their marquees instead...
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      09-13-2016, 08:21 AM   #13
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Same reason they didn't give the GT4 a PDK...or gears that weren't insanely long...is there any reason you should be able to go 81 MPH in second gear? There are estimates out there that the GT4 would do 0-60 MPH in about 3.4 or 3.5 seconds with a PDK and slightly shorter gears. No additional BHP necessary. It's just all about protecting the 911 (which I have never lusted after and don't figure to ever want anyway).

The 987 was the car that got me interested in Porsche - and it culminated in purchasing the 981 that I have now. But it does suck that manufacturers do this shit to us - it's the same with the M2. They could have made the car superior to the M3/4, which have gotten bigger and (marginally ) heavier. But they want to protect their marquees instead...
I think they made the M2 to get a younger crowd (with less money) to get into the M family...

Cheers!
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      09-13-2016, 08:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Same reason they didn't give the GT4 a PDK...or gears that weren't insanely long...is there any reason you should be able to go 81 MPH in second gear? There are estimates out there that the GT4 would do 0-60 MPH in about 3.4 or 3.5 seconds with a PDK and slightly shorter gears. No additional BHP necessary. It's just all about protecting the 911 (which I have never lusted after and don't figure to ever want anyway).

The 987 was the car that got me interested in Porsche - and it culminated in purchasing the 981 that I have now. But it does suck that manufacturers do this shit to us - it's the same with the M2. They could have made the car superior to the M3/4, which have gotten bigger and (marginally ) heavier. But they want to protect their marquees instead...
its more about cost than anything else... Every bit and bob you change from a series car costs more, and it takes a lot of cost to get a little more performance - the weight is the worst part and hardest to fix. The M2 is right at the sweet spot... more cost will end up in less sales; a downward spiral. If it cost even a little more, I'd get a Cayman instead. Yeah, the gears are long in the porky, but you can always change them. I race a Lexus, and changed both the trans ratios and the rear end to get the ratios & spread I wanted. No biggie if you have the ambition
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      09-13-2016, 08:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I think they made the M2 to get a younger crowd (with less money) to get into the M family...

Cheers!
Of course, you're right. I totally get that. But some would pay M5/6 money for the best BMW could do in a car the size of the M2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnetti View Post
its more about cost than anything else... Every bit and bob you change from a series car costs more, and it takes a lot of cost to get a little more performance - the weight is the worst part and hardest to fix. The M2 is right at the sweet spot... more cost will end up in less sales; a downward spiral. If it cost even a little more, I'd get a Cayman instead. Yeah, the gears are long in the porky, but you can always change them. I race a Lexus, and changed both the trans ratios and the rear end to get the ratios & spread I wanted. No biggie if you have the ambition
The M2 is great for many reasons - it might be the best "bang for your buck" and all around buy for the sports car with some utility on sale today. Not challenging that at all. BMW's approach with this car is very smart and intended to get folks hooked on M cars.

It doesn't preclude them, or Porsche or whoever, from making the absolute best possible car they can make in a particular body style. Just imagine a M2 CSL.

Sorry for the thread jack...
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      09-20-2016, 07:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I suggest you check the previous generation Cayman with the flat 6. I believe it's a better car: it may not be as (marginally) quick as the new turbocharged one but the flat 6 is a pure gem. You can get it for much less than the new generation... Here in AUS, a very lightly used (2600km) 981 cayman S is at around $120K and a bare bone demo M2 at $105K.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Plus 1 on checking out at 981S. Awesome car.
I went with a 981S last June - I was really disappointed to not get a 1M in 2011, and wanted to wait for the M2...but after I test drove the 981, all thoughts of waiting went out the window.

The daily experience is truly awesome - as I am sure it is on the M2 as well - the 981 S is not as fast as the M2 or 718S for sure. I am sure the torque on the latter two are also intoxicating. Not a bad choice amongst all three to be honest. I am sure the 718S is a gem to drive...but if the experience is lacking a bit because of the sound, the M2 seems like a better (and more economical) choice. Still need to drive both, which I hope to accomplish sooner rather than later.

I also don't buy the Porsche marketing BS about the turbo 4 being about emissions...or that a turbo 6 wouldn't fit - there are many turbo kits available for the 981 - I think this move was all about moving the Boxster and Cayman down market. You really want the Porsche F6 howl? Gotta get a 911. Or GT4...if they make it again.

Here's the sound of my 981 CS after getting the PSE retrofitted - it's really pretty great and I look forward to the commute to and from work each day...and all the other random rides that I go on.

Much less to do with moving cars down.

It's about CAFE.

Corporate average fuel economy.

Same reasons that there is an ecoboost Ford Mustang.. And turbos in every manufacturer lineup and it's also a reason why the M2 is limited so that the 2 series model figures can help bring up the average for the BMW fleet.
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