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      09-01-2016, 01:33 PM   #1
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M240i vs. M2 Video Comparison (Joe Achielles)

This was just posted today - nice video comparison. Is the B58 enough to take the crown away from the M2? Some quick takeaways:

- M240i can pull away from the M2 around 30-40mph (it's a wash at best)
- M2 remains a tier higher in terms of throttle response, braking, and overall driving feel. It still feels quicker no matter what the numbers say.

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      09-01-2016, 02:08 PM   #2
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      09-01-2016, 02:16 PM   #3
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So in a straight line, they are evenly matched. We all like these straight lines runs once in a while. Its good fun. I'm almost certain that if you track or take them on some twisty roads, its then a different ball game altogether.

Interested to see the ring times on the 240
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      09-01-2016, 02:41 PM   #4
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pffffff why BMW is doing this to us ( M2 owners) it's like inside BMW some guys are throwing eggs to M2 engineering team
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      09-02-2016, 12:24 AM   #5
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I was thinking about how the M2 is always compared to the more "pedestrian" M235i/M240i. Why is this?

I know there will always be such comparisons for the M2 as one of the main characteristics of an M is easily more assailable than other M cars so it's an easy target
1) M specific suspension
2) M Engine characteristics
3) M Engine power

All this adds up to the driving dynamics that are typical of an M Car.

One of the weakest points is #3, which even without the M240i B58 engine was always under threat. Even against the M235i. There will always be cheaper cars with higher HP. But to some degree, this is even true for higher M cars.

So what's the big deal? I guess for some it is the price and possible cannibalization of M2 sales. People can reason and justify NOT paying that much and not getting an M car and spend their money modifying to get points 1,2 and 3 to M2 levels or near levels. Some people love to mod and some love the price of the M240i.

I think for modding reasons the M240i will be enough for some as it is the perfect car for them. Lots of HP! How can you argue with that! More unexplored potential!

For the person who likes the characteristics/driving dynamics of the M240i out of the box and values the $$$ savings, the M2 is not for them anyway.

But if you get the M car it is more than that. Its about how 1,2 and 3 work together to give you that true M experience that gives you that grin when you drive it. But how can you quantify that? Or should you even try?

As I've stated before in other threads, I met the M4 GTS technical project manager, and asked him straight up about his thoughts about the M240i vs the M2. He almost laughed at me. Why? Because BMW standard cars are created with a different mindset and priorities compared with the M division.

When you watch this video you see it in their daily street driving. Right away you can see the smile on his face is much more present every second he drives around. It's just such an experience.

And thinking about it some more, I guess this is the reason that the e46 m3 is such a classic. I mean sure the modern normal BMW's have more HP than that m3, but everyone still lusts for it and everyone still wants one. They just give you that complete M package that modern standard BMW's can't match despite the HP advantage.

Right now however, since the HP/acceleration pillar has fallen, and the fact that both cars are on sale at the same time, I can see why this comparison will be pretty hot.

As someone else said, it would be interesting what will happen on the track. Will the M2's M4's suspension bits and rear subframe mount and LSD actually make that much of a difference? If so will we see lap time comparisons against the m4?!?!? Is that difference worth a $$$ value to potential buyers who won't even track it? Or will that translate into a different and possibly better driver experience for daily drivers - something they can appreciate and spend the money for?

Okay rambling spew is over....


Anyway, some things I love about this video:
  1. He definitely gives props to the M240i as it does deserve it and is a wonderful car!
  2. He calls out the spec wh0res that base their judgement and arguments purely on specs. I have nothing against drag racers, although that's not my thing, but some people are basing too much of their evaluation on this in my opinion.
  3. Damn that m240i is fast! That's so great! It's gonna crush a lot of the competition! Bravo engineers!
  4. Another thing in this video that I find myself in alignment with is the statement that some people say the interior is cheap and not so special at 26:50 and then he says "who cares! When you get behind the wheel are you worried about the plastic on this vent? No!". Yup all those thoughts and worries are left behind the second I drive away. I just love driving this thing and that's hard to quantify!
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      09-02-2016, 11:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
I was thinking about how the M2 is always compared to the more "pedestrian" M235i/M240i. Why is this?

I know there will always be such comparisons for the M2 as one of the main characteristics of an M is easily more assailable than other M cars so it's an easy target
1) M specific suspension
2) M Engine characteristics
3) M Engine power

All this adds up to the driving dynamics that are typical of an M Car.

One of the weakest points is #3, which even without the M240i B58 engine was always under threat. Even against the M235i. There will always be cheaper cars with higher HP. But to some degree, this is even true for higher M cars.

So what's the big deal? I guess for some it is the price and possible cannibalization of M2 sales. People can reason and justify NOT paying that much and not getting an M car and spend their money modifying to get points 1,2 and 3 to M2 levels or near levels. Some people love to mod and some love the price of the M240i.

I think for modding reasons the M240i will be enough for some as it is the perfect car for them. Lots of HP! How can you argue with that! More unexplored potential!

For the person who likes the characteristics/driving dynamics of the M240i out of the box and values the $$$ savings, the M2 is not for them anyway.

But if you get the M car it is more than that. Its about how 1,2 and 3 work together to give you that true M experience that gives you that grin when you drive it. But how can you quantify that? Or should you even try?

As I've stated before in other threads, I met the M4 GTS technical project manager, and asked him straight up about his thoughts about the M240i vs the M2. He almost laughed at me. Why? Because BMW standard cars are created with a different mindset and priorities compared with the M division.

When you watch this video you see it in their daily street driving. Right away you can see the smile on his face is much more present every second he drives around. It's just such an experience.

And thinking about it some more, I guess this is the reason that the e46 m3 is such a classic. I mean sure the modern normal BMW's have more HP than that m3, but everyone still lusts for it and everyone still wants one. They just give you that complete M package that modern standard BMW's can't match despite the HP advantage.

Right now however, since the HP/acceleration pillar has fallen, and the fact that both cars are on sale at the same time, I can see why this comparison will be pretty hot.

As someone else said, it would be interesting what will happen on the track. Will the M2's M4's suspension bits and rear subframe mount and LSD actually make that much of a difference? If so will we see lap time comparisons against the m4?!?!? Is that difference worth a $$$ value to potential buyers who won't even track it? Or will that translate into a different and possibly better driver experience for daily drivers - something they can appreciate and spend the money for?

Okay rambling spew is over....


Anyway, some things I love about this video:
  1. He definitely gives props to the M240i as it does deserve it and is a wonderful car!
  2. He calls out the spec wh0res that base their judgement and arguments purely on specs. I have nothing against drag racers, although that's not my thing, but some people are basing too much of their evaluation on this in my opinion.
  3. Damn that m240i is fast! That's so great! It's gonna crush a lot of the competition! Bravo engineers!
  4. Another thing in this video that I find myself in alignment with is the statement that some people say the interior is cheap and not so special at 26:50 and then he says "who cares! When you get behind the wheel are you worried about the plastic on this vent? No!". Yup all those thoughts and worries are left behind the second I drive away. I just love driving this thing and that's hard to quantify!
Great analysis sir!
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      09-02-2016, 12:55 PM   #7
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45min review? Really? Too long did not bother...

Anyone can do an exec summary here?
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      09-02-2016, 04:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzima
45min review? Really? Too long did not bother...

Anyone can do an exec summary here?
M2 feels sharper in every way and evokes a race car feel. It will put a smile on your face. The m240i is a great car and is deceptively fast. It's cheaper and is great value. The m2 and m240 are pretty well even in terms of speed!
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      09-02-2016, 09:28 PM   #9
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This kind of thing - M car threatened by its regular range topping model in a straight line, first happened 9 years ago when E90 335i came out with N54. Just that at that time, S65 had one thing to defend itself that m2 now don't - a naturally aspirated motor.

I've always thought m2 engineering team should've twisted m2 n55 turbo compressor side just a tiny little bit to allow an additional 15-20hp, so the f87 would be perfectly positioned between f22 and f8X.
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      09-03-2016, 05:54 AM   #10
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Anyone buying a car to win stop light races shouldn't buy an M car... they are missing the point (but they won't see that if they don't already)

There are less expensive, higher HP and faster straight line cars than M cars. There always will be. If this characteristic is really important to someone, they like won't resonate with the M2 (or even M3/4 at that price point).

If the m240 was notably faster in a straight line, I would still choose an M2 every day of the week but that's just me. Having said that, I think it is really great what BMW is doing with their 2 series cars. I'm hoping the 3 series follows suit in the next generation and takes back some of the ground lost to the competition this gen.
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      09-03-2016, 10:05 AM   #11
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An M car should perform better in every performance category then the model beneath it. I wonder how people would react if a 340i/440i M Sport was neck and neck or slightly faster than an M3/M4 in a straight line?
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      09-03-2016, 10:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzima View Post
45min review? Really? Too long did not bother...

Anyone can do an exec summary here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
M2 feels sharper in every way and evokes a race car feel. It will put a smile on your face. The m240i is a great car and is deceptively fast. It's cheaper and is great value. The m2 and m240 are pretty well even in terms of speed!
I agree that the review is way to long,especially when they are just driving the cars on residential streets.They needed to take the two cars to a track.


Nice summary Seagull.You can definitely see how much happier the driver is when he is driving the M2.Its such a fun car to drive and the sound of the exhaust is amazing.
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      09-03-2016, 01:18 PM   #13
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I think we'll see some track comparisons soon.
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      09-03-2016, 04:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
An M car should perform better in every performance category then the model beneath it. I wonder how people would react if a 340i/440i M Sport was neck and neck or slightly faster than an M3/M4 in a straight line?
M240i vs M2 price difference = $1000.00?

340i/440i vs M3/4 price difference = $15,000?
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      09-03-2016, 06:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
M240i vs M2 price difference = $1000.00?

340i/440i vs M3/4 price difference = $15,000?
Good comparison,this review is from England,where car prices are totally different than the US and Canada.

The only reason to buy a M240i over an M2 in the US or Canada is if you need xdrive IMO.
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      09-03-2016, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
You can definitely see how much happier the driver is when he is driving the M2.
This. The smile on his face while driving the M2 against the m240i paints the real picture here.
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      09-03-2016, 09:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
I've always thought m2 engineering team should've twisted m2 n55 turbo compressor side just a tiny little bit to allow an additional 15-20hp, so the f87 would be perfectly positioned between f22 and f8X.
You'd think so, but that positioning would have only have worked (for BMW anyway) on paper. As we can see from track testing, that additional 15-20hp would have made the M2's overall performance too close to the overall performance of the M3/M4. For example, those M2 short-lap tracks times would have beat the M4 by an even larger margin - not good.
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      09-05-2016, 08:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmo View Post
This. The smile on his face while driving the M2 against the m240i paints the real picture here.
That is what I took from the initial drives. M240i was 'yeah, that's nice'... in the M2 he was grinning like a kid every time he stomped it.

I also noticed the side by side comparisons was the skilled (skinny) driver by himself in the M240i, the beefy amateur and his friend in the M2. So, big skill differential and 250lb handicap makes them almost even in little patches of straight line. They didn't do much of a test the other way round... or better yet, switching the good driver back and forth.

Not cancelling my M2 order!

PS $10K difference is definitely not the Canadian situation either. Here if you match up the options they are almost a dead heat in $$$.
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      09-07-2016, 05:57 AM   #19
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Interesting.

But what was the hesitational gearbox feel they referred to a few times (and it seemed to puzzle them) when shifting from 2nd to 3rd with the M-DCT gearbox of the M2 ? Do you guys experience that too or was that just related to the gearbox of Joe's M2 only ?

Can't tell because mine's a 6MT and never felt hesitation since day 1 (over 11K kms clocked).

If the M2 gearbox in the video has an issue, the acceleration test results require some reservation.

If it's normal, then kudos to BMW for the M240i.
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      09-08-2016, 03:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Interesting.

But what was the hesitational gearbox feel they referred to a few times (and it seemed to puzzle them) when shifting from 2nd to 3rd with the M-DCT gearbox of the M2 ? Do you guys experience that too or was that just related to the gearbox of Joe's M2 only ?

Can't tell because mine's a 6MT and never felt hesitation since day 1 (over 11K kms clocked).

If the M2 gearbox in the video has an issue, the acceleration test results require some reservation.

If it's normal, then kudos to BMW for the M240i.
In sport and sport + the gear change is rapid enough to activate DSC and momentarily slow the car.
I drive mine in comfort as the gearchange is fast enough imo and i prefer the steering feel
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      09-09-2016, 08:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koastal View Post
In sport and sport + the gear change is rapid enough to activate DSC and momentarily slow the car.
I drive mine in comfort as the gearchange is fast enough imo and i prefer the steering feel
How is throttle response in sport, twitchy? I don't like artificially weighted steering either. I'm not crazy about the bundled settings in the M2, I can program everything individually on my e92.
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      09-10-2016, 02:24 AM   #22
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From BMW's point of view, there is nothing wrong with the positioning of these cars. They make much more profit on each M240i they sell than on each M2. People start off wanting to buy an M2 and end up settling for a car that is available, cheaper (unless you tick every option the M2 comes with as standard) and still has a selling point (dude, it's totally as fast an M2!).

I've driven an M2 and an M235i back to back. The difference between the two cars wasn't power. It was how the driving experience involved the driver, that someone had gone over every dynamic aspect of the car to make it work right, instead of having to play with 50 different modes and 8 different buttons. Once you've driven them with intent, you really understand how good the M2 is, that it can make a brilliant car like the M235i, a car I really, really wanted to buy, feel like not enough.

Either way, no one who buys an M240i is going to feel sad about their purchase and it's perfectly obvious that for a lot of people an M2 will be just too much more than they need or want. I think that's a good thing.
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