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      08-16-2016, 07:02 PM   #1
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OK - Why is the F87 that much better than an F80?

I currently own an F80 going on two years. I had always wanted the M2 when I had first heard the rumors, based on older infatuations with previous cars E46 and even the E90 thinking the size was perfect.

I personally have felt the F80 was a great car and a lot of fun and was surprised by all the negative reviews. I have actually thought it was more fun to drive than the E90. I will always have a soft spot for the F80.

Then the F87 comes out and the weight, oh the weight, ruined it for me. I was still holding out hope though based on the wheelbase, but was so disappointed in the weight numbers with less powerful engine.

Now, I read every review and every post seems to absolutely love the car. Seems like my weight-issues are a non-factor? Makes me think my initial hunch was right and the smaller car is what I want.

So, my question is this, as I am on a waitlist to get an M2.....

What is it?? I have yet to hear a direct reason why people love the car? Is there something tangible that can be explained as to why this has old Mcar soul, is so much fun, and feels like a return to the older generations? This might be an impossible question, but I have to ask.

I ask this as someone who has not been able to test drive an M2.

TIA!!
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      08-16-2016, 07:15 PM   #2
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I haven't driven one yet, but...

1) Numbers only tell half the story of any car.
2) The M2 weighs the same as the E46 M3, but with far more torque.
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      08-16-2016, 07:23 PM   #3
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I have driven an M2...

Sold my E46 M3 after 8 years last week...

Got on a waiting list back in February...

Wasn't sure I wanted to replace the M3 until I was able to drive the M2! That immediately sold me! It felt like I had hopped back into my E46 as if it had been updated, while I understand there is many logical advances the interior space and how I felt driving the car made me feel right at home.

I'm #1 on a list now... Hoping to get my name called in a few weeks!
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      08-16-2016, 07:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliams View Post
I haven't driven one yet, but...

1) Numbers only tell half the story of any car.
2) The M2 weighs the same as the E46 M3, but with far more torque.
Bingo! For the record, I never thought my E46 M3 felt heavy, and that seems to be the overwhelming consensus regarding the similarly weighted M2. Sometimes people focus too much on a specific number and miss the bigger picture. -scr

Last edited by SoCalRob; 08-16-2016 at 07:32 PM.. Reason: amplification of point
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      08-16-2016, 07:40 PM   #5
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If you look past the foreign grammar in his article, the writers description of the e46, f87, and f82 is pretty spot on. Somewhere in the middle of the post: the torque/weight/shorter wheelbase make it tail happier and snappier. With everything off, it can chirp and break traction in 2nd, yet its very controllable. Reminds me of the e46 with respect to the tendency for the rear to dance and how predictably one could catch it and direct it. The f82 does this too, but not as tightly-- the moment arm feels longer.

The return of Purity--M2 vs. M4 comparison http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1245083

Thats just my 2c on one dimension though ..
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      08-16-2016, 07:45 PM   #6
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I too find it interesting all those comments throughout reviews that talk about the weighted feel and make it sound like the F87 is heavier in some way.

Googled the answer myself and weight is close enough to not mean anything to me.

Bottom line... It feels amazing when behind the wheel, what a drivers car should be.
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      08-16-2016, 08:19 PM   #7
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I have driven a DCT equipped M2 twice in the last month at my Austin dealer. Disclaimer, although spirited drives for 15 minutes each, I cannot tell you as much as I would like because a serious track session or two is needed for a real review (I like HPDEs and I drive a certain GT P car for those). However - I am an amateur and like most of you folk, I love love love cars. Also, I too think the current M3/4s are great cars for DD and fun.

The M2 steering is really really good for electric steering. This, coupled with the shorter wheelbase make it easy to point and go, always knowing just where the car is and where it will go when directed. The shorter wheelbase coupled with a snappy motor also allows it to go from understeer to oversteer quickly with a touch of throttle-almost a little alarming and even though a "lesser" motor this makes it a blast. Plus, with smaller over all dimensions you feel a bit like you are wearing it - which always adds to the perception of sportiness in my opinion. A huge plus is no adjustable shocks as the suspension is NICE from M; if you purchased a M3/4 without those, you are a winner. The suspension is set up great and my M2 will have the M coilovers or similar.

It does not feel as heavy as it is. My only complaints are 1) BMWNA made too much standard. I would rather save the weight and NOT have electric seats, folding mirrors, heated seats, Idrive, HK, etc. - it should be an option to order a stripper! That would save 100 lbs. of crap that is not needed at all. It should always be an option to order a stripper. 2) The aforementioned seat is too tall/it will not go down far enough due to the motors - I need the lowest seating position possible. This is very annoying.

Really, it is just the synergy of the car coupled with relative, for BMW, simplicity as the sum is greater than the parts. That is one reason why my M2 with have a MT. Just keeping it real.

Last edited by Vintage; 08-23-2016 at 04:18 PM..
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      08-16-2016, 08:25 PM   #8
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See for example here (though pitting the M2 and M4, you'll get the point): here
"The BMW M2 and M4 share some similar DNA, but they’re pretty different cars. The brand-new BMW M2 is much smaller, has less power and is slower than the BMW M4. It’s also around $10,000 cheaper to start. But that isn’t to say that the BMW M2 is the poor man’s BMW M4, because it isn’t. The BMW M2 makes 365 hp and gets from 0-60 in about 4.3 seconds, so that’s nothing to laugh at. The M2 is for an entirely different customer, one that would choose the M2 over the M4, regardless of money. That type of customer that grew up loving compact sportscars and to whom the sheer driving experience is at the top of the preferences list. That’s because “smaller, less powerful and slower” doesn’t tell the whole story. The M2 might be all of those things, but it’s also lighter than the M4, by anywhere from 55 to 200 lbs – depends who you ask – and more nimble, making it more fun on winding roads. It has sharper steering and a more tossable chassis. The BMW M2 is the car for people who prefer the E46 M3 to the F82 M4. It’s the car that old-school BMW enthusiasts have been begging BMW for, for what seems like an eternity now. The BMW M2 isn’t going to be cross-shopped with the M4, as it’s a vastly different car with a different focus for different customers. The M2 is inherently compromised in the name of fun and dynamics, as its ride is more uncomfortable and its cabin more cramped than the M4’s, but it’s most certainly more entertaining. So the BMW M2 is built for customers who value fun and excitement over outright performance. The same people who bought an E46 M3 back in the day are the same people who will buy the BMW M2. But that’s not to say that the BMW M4 is worse than the M2. It’s just different. [...] Maybe the M4 is a bit more disconnected than the M2, not giving its driver the genuine sense of feel and connection on the same level as its new younger brother. [...] So if you’re the kind of person who values grin-inducing fun over raw performance and are willing to sacrifice a bit of comfort and usability for it, then the BMW M2 is the car for you."
If you liked driving an E46 M3 (forget for a moment the clunky SMGII tranny), you can't go wrong with an M2, notwithstanding the fact that it's a car from a different era with different engine layout.
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      08-16-2016, 08:52 PM   #9
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I wouldn't say the M2 is "better" than the F80. It's different.

The M2 feels more nimble and more eager to change direction than the F80. It feels more raw. It sounds much better (which, IMO, impacts the visceral experience in a good way). And, for some reason, the smaller sizes gives the impression that it is lighter than it really is. All subjective things but that is based on my ownership experience with both.

The downside is it has less power and less luxury stuff. It really depends on what "better" looks like for the individual. I can say that for me, the M2 is one of the most fun cars I've owned. It's just a blast to drive fast and very rewarding in the experience. I've said it before but the M2 is like a modern day E46 M3 with way more torque. I think BMW focused less on pleasing the masses with the M2 (compared to its other current M cars) and that helped make it feel more like older generation cars.
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      08-17-2016, 03:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I wouldn't say the M2 is "better" than the F80. It's different.

The M2 feels more nimble and more eager to change direction than the F80. It feels more raw. It sounds much better (which, IMO, impacts the visceral experience in a good way). And, for some reason, the smaller sizes gives the impression that it is lighter than it really is. All subjective things but that is based on my ownership experience with both.

The downside is it has less power and less luxury stuff. It really depends on what "better" looks like for the individual. I can say that for me, the M2 is one of the most fun cars I've owned. It's just a blast to drive fast and very rewarding in the experience. I've said it before but the M2 is like a modern day E46 M3 with way more torque. I think BMW focused less on pleasing the masses with the M2 (compared to its other current M cars) and that helped make it feel more like older generation cars.
nice write up!

btw, we miss you over at the other side.

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      08-22-2016, 04:20 AM   #11
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F80/82/83 is built from a 4+4 platform that uses a long wheelbase to serve family duties, as the bread and butter of the company. BMW has to first think about selling as many that family sedan as possible, before looking at what's left to do with its m iteration.

F87 is built from a 2+4 platform to appeal to the customer group that's less concern about anything else but driving pleasure.

F87 is inherently superior to F80 in handling, be it fitted with S55, N55 or N20, it's simply not less interesting or slower in many cases.

However, BMW has a positioning thing to do and carefully put F87 in between F80 and a range topping M235/240i, power output wise. Incidentally, m2 turns out to be a modern E46 m3, which is one of the all time favorite m product to many.

The trend doesn't change, as G20 3er is getting even longer and roomier. Just let die of the m3 we knew. m2 is the new m3.
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