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      07-31-2016, 10:09 PM   #1
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Automobile Mag: Porsche 718 Boxster S vs Ford Focus RS vs BMW M2 (DCT)

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Bought the August issue of Automobile Mag in the US as it contains a review of a Porsche 718 Boxster S vs Ford Focus RS vs BMW M2 comparo ("The Entertainers: BMW M2 vs. Ford Focus RS vs. Porsche 718 Boxster S - Similar abilities, but vastly different attitudes"), as well as an M4 GTS review ("Driven: BMW M4 GTS - Nothing Rational About it").

To be distinguished from another car review between the same cars: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1284351

Noticed that the comparo review is also online: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/th...718-boxster-s/
"The BMW M2’s turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six, rated at 365 horsepower and 343 lb-ft of torque available from just 1,400 rpm, is smoother and sounds better than the four-cylinders, and the addition of BMW’s fully variable Active M Differential system helps put the power down with authority. The M2 we have on hand is gothic black inside and out; even its 19-inch wheels are as dark as a coal mine at night. Just about everything is included in the car’s generous standard specification, save BMW’s M DCT—the seven-speed dual-clutch transmission that is fitted to our test machine. It’s a nice option to have, but only as long as the owner is committed to working the paddles. Swift upshifts are particularly rewarding in the car’s DSC Sport setting that plugs the gap between yawn and yell and helps get the most out of the M2’s powertrain.
[...]
The M2 isn’t exactly a role model for comfort and compliance either, with its one-setup-fits-all stiff shocks and spiral-shaped railway tracks that double for springs. Over the really rough stuff, keeping the edgy BMW in line is work hard enough to pepper one’s palms with blisters. As soon as it hits smoother ground, however, the M2 duly morphs into a precise and responsive ground-hugger, a deep-voiced yet graceful solo dancer through second-gear corners.
[...]
With temperatures hovering not far above freezing during our drive, summer tires were not exactly the best choice of footwear. The M2’s standard 19-inch Pilot Super Sports are every bit as uncompromising as the slightly narrower Michelins fitted to the Ford and the optional 20-inch Pirelli P Zeros the Boxster S came equipped with, but they all reveal what each vehicle’s R&D team had in mind when conceiving these dramatically different musketeers. With the M2 and Boxster more so than the Focus RS, it’s imperative to warm up the tires to get the front end to stick. Otherwise there will be too much understeer and not enough grip during turn-in. The M2 feels planted most of the time, and the feedback through the helm is consistently meaty, but the four-seat coupe becomes much more of a handful when it struggles for grip. The all-wheel-drive Focus, however, is as neutral as Switzerland at the limit, the weight of its steering working in perfect synchronicity with the torque flow and chassis movements.
[...]
The BMW M2 wins the impromptu poll at the local pub, the smoke-signals-per-mile ranking, the slidemeister medal. It’s the true successor to the E46 M3 of 10 years ago—immensely chuckable, outright rowdy, wonderfully temperamental, and within reach of more budgets."
Full review @ http://www.automobilemag.com/news/th...718-boxster-s/
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      08-03-2016, 03:23 PM   #2
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Sweet! Now for a follow-up review in warm conditions. Still very close given the price differences among each.
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      08-03-2016, 03:37 PM   #3
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It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
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      08-03-2016, 03:45 PM   #4
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I usually really enjoy Automobile Mag's editorial, but I really struggled to make it through this one. I couldn't get oriented. I felt like the author jumped around between vehicle's & topics, but never really anchored his viewpoints in a way that allowed me to understand how each car relates to the other.
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      08-03-2016, 04:02 PM   #5
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"It’s the true successor to the E46 M3 of 10 years ago—immensely chuckable, outright rowdy, wonderfully temperamental, and within reach of more budgets."

No - it's definitely not. Not because of the reason that I say the M346 is such a good car (it is quite enjoyable, but it has it's flaws), but because I think that you can't even compare them in other things than size. The engine, gearbox and suspension of the M346 is so different to the M2s, if you go drive these cars back to back (what I did recently, that's why I judge it), I really think that the M2 is a little bit to much of a "every-darlings-car". The MT gearbox could be operated by my mum without a problem (without offending any gender here), same goes to the steering. I think it is quite "hard" to drive the M346 with an MT in an ambitious way. Not everyone can do that - you need a bit of experience and know how to engange the clutch and gas pedal properly. Same goes for the steering as it is completely hydraulic and sometimes difficult to operate. The M2 is so much easier to drive - the engine is pretty decent, but still lacks a lot of the excitement of a NA I6 from the past that revs until 8. The sound of the M2 is very nice, but you can always feel that it is some kind of "digital" and you always know what is coming. The M346 is much more multi-faceted when it comes to sound and behavior.
The M2 is a very nice car, even better when we are talking about cars from todays day and age. I am definitely happy with the result of the M2 in general, and I would not order a car without navigation, connected drive and all that stuff. So I am happy that the M2 exists. Other than that it seperates itself nicely from the competitors and still offers a MT, I6 and RWD driving experience, which is kind of rare today.

But please, dear journalists, stop comparing it to the M330, M346 or whatever. All of these cars are great in their own way, but they are all completely different when driven the way they suppose to be.
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      08-03-2016, 04:23 PM   #6
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Thanks for posting!
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      08-03-2016, 04:54 PM   #7
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      08-03-2016, 05:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
It’s the true successor to the E46 M3
That's all we really need to know.
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      08-03-2016, 06:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge
"It’s the true successor to the E46 M3 of 10 years ago—immensely chuckable, outright rowdy, wonderfully temperamental, and within reach of more budgets."

No - it's definitely not. Not because of the reason that I say the M346 is such a good car (it is quite enjoyable, but it has it's flaws), but because I think that you can't even compare them in other things than size. The engine, gearbox and suspension of the M346 is so different to the M2s, if you go drive these cars back to back (what I did recently, that's why I judge it), I really think that the M2 is a little bit to much of a "every-darlings-car". The MT gearbox could be operated by my mum without a problem (without offending any gender here), same goes to the steering. I think it is quite "hard" to drive the M346 with an MT in an ambitious way. Not everyone can do that - you need a bit of experience and know how to engange the clutch and gas pedal properly. Same goes for the steering as it is completely hydraulic and sometimes difficult to operate. The M2 is so much easier to drive - the engine is pretty decent, but still lacks a lot of the excitement of a NA I6 from the past that revs until 8. The sound of the M2 is very nice, but you can always feel that it is some kind of "digital" and you always know what is coming. The M346 is much more multi-faceted when it comes to sound and behavior.
The M2 is a very nice car, even better when we are talking about cars from todays day and age. I am definitely happy with the result of the M2 in general, and I would not order a car without navigation, connected drive and all that stuff. So I am happy that the M2 exists. Other than that it seperates itself nicely from the competitors and still offers a MT, I6 and RWD driving experience, which is kind of rare today.

But please, dear journalists, stop comparing it to the M330, M346 or whatever. All of these cars are great in their own way, but they are all completely different when driven the way they suppose to be.
Couldn't have said it any better
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      08-03-2016, 06:59 PM   #10
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This is a repost of my thread started on April 21.

The author, Georg Kacher syndicates his articles to different magazines and CAR UK was the 1st one to post his article...

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1252517
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      08-03-2016, 07:54 PM   #11
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Are the rear windows tinted/dyed black from the factory? That looks really uneven and stupid IMO. basically makes you have to tint the front ones to match.
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      08-03-2016, 09:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge View Post
"It’s the true successor to the E46 M3 of 10 years ago—immensely chuckable, outright rowdy, wonderfully temperamental, and within reach of more budgets."

No - it's definitely not. Not because of the reason that I say the M346 is such a good car (it is quite enjoyable, but it has it's flaws), but because I think that you can't even compare them in other things than size. The engine, gearbox and suspension of the M346 is so different to the M2s, if you go drive these cars back to back (what I did recently, that's why I judge it), I really think that the M2 is a little bit to much of a "every-darlings-car". The MT gearbox could be operated by my mum without a problem (without offending any gender here), same goes to the steering. I think it is quite "hard" to drive the M346 with an MT in an ambitious way. Not everyone can do that - you need a bit of experience and know how to engange the clutch and gas pedal properly. Same goes for the steering as it is completely hydraulic and sometimes difficult to operate. The M2 is so much easier to drive - the engine is pretty decent, but still lacks a lot of the excitement of a NA I6 from the past that revs until 8. The sound of the M2 is very nice, but you can always feel that it is some kind of "digital" and you always know what is coming. The M346 is much more multi-faceted when it comes to sound and behavior.
The M2 is a very nice car, even better when we are talking about cars from todays day and age. I am definitely happy with the result of the M2 in general, and I would not order a car without navigation, connected drive and all that stuff. So I am happy that the M2 exists. Other than that it seperates itself nicely from the competitors and still offers a MT, I6 and RWD driving experience, which is kind of rare today.

But please, dear journalists, stop comparing it to the M330, M346 or whatever. All of these cars are great in their own way, but they are all completely different when driven the way they suppose to be.
Correct- I have a ZHP E46 and have not driven an M2 but have driven An E46 M3 and these will all be very different cars with not much in common but the Nav system (that I am not crazy about BTW)- But I agree with you , I will trade in my ZHP next year and will get an M2- but I do wish we had some more choices of color and the glossy lacquered carbon fiber from the current M3/M4 and should have blind spot monitoring as every modern car should. But other than for <60K the M2 stands alone- the Mustang/Camaro etc- are all in a different, larger class...
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      08-03-2016, 09:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comacow02
Are the rear windows tinted/dyed black from the factory? That looks really uneven and stupid IMO. basically makes you have to tint the front ones to match.
This is the Sun Glazing option. The tint is in the glass rather than a film applied to it.

In some parts of the world it's illegal to tint the front windows and windscreen.
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      08-03-2016, 11:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eau_rouge
"It’s the true successor to the E46 M3 of 10 years ago—immensely chuckable, outright rowdy, wonderfully temperamental, and within reach of more budgets."

No - it's definitely not. Not because of the reason that I say the M346 is such a good car (it is quite enjoyable, but it has it's flaws), but because I think that you can't even compare them in other things than size. The engine, gearbox and suspension of the M346 is so different to the M2s, if you go drive these cars back to back (what I did recently, that's why I judge it), I really think that the M2 is a little bit to much of a "every-darlings-car". The MT gearbox could be operated by my mum without a problem (without offending any gender here), same goes to the steering. I think it is quite "hard" to drive the M346 with an MT in an ambitious way. Not everyone can do that - you need a bit of experience and know how to engange the clutch and gas pedal properly. Same goes for the steering as it is completely hydraulic and sometimes difficult to operate. The M2 is so much easier to drive - the engine is pretty decent, but still lacks a lot of the excitement of a NA I6 from the past that revs until 8. The sound of the M2 is very nice, but you can always feel that it is some kind of "digital" and you always know what is coming. The M346 is much more multi-faceted when it comes to sound and behavior.
The M2 is a very nice car, even better when we are talking about cars from todays day and age. I am definitely happy with the result of the M2 in general, and I would not order a car without navigation, connected drive and all that stuff. So I am happy that the M2 exists. Other than that it seperates itself nicely from the competitors and still offers a MT, I6 and RWD driving experience, which is kind of rare today.

But please, dear journalists, stop comparing it to the M330, M346 or whatever. All of these cars are great in their own way, but they are all completely different when driven the way they suppose to be.
This is so right.....I drove the M2 recently and while it's good it's too "digital" and not analog enough for me. I've owned an 04 e46M and definitely thought that was one of the best most interactive cars I've ever owned. Definitely the essence of M. Unfortunately Bmw is in business to make money and not satisfy the enthusiasts that used to buy BMWs because of how they drove. Different game today so as an enthusiast I took my money elsewhere until I can locate an older M car again.
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      08-04-2016, 02:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow
It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
The enthusiasts will still opt for the 6.

GTS GT4... They will make even more money doing it to.
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      08-04-2016, 04:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow
It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
Yup. And according to this http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...-jaguar-f-type the economy savings are pretty pants too. Pointless dropping the 6 pot
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      08-04-2016, 06:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow
It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
Hate to brake it to you but Porsche is just VW. And they have an emissions scandal and epa to deal with
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      08-04-2016, 06:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Hate to brake it to you but Porsche is just VW. And they have an emissions scandal and epa to deal with
It's all Ferry's fault!


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      08-04-2016, 07:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow
It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
Hate to break it to you, the original Porsches had 4 pots in them.
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      08-04-2016, 07:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
It is laughable to think Porsche has put a 4 cylinder engine in the Boxster... if you were confused you'd think they've thrown the TFSI engine from the Golf R into a Porsche

There is a huge, huge qualitative difference between 6 and 4 cylinders.

It's bad enough the world needs turbo cars everywhere... now 4 cylinder ones...
Have to disagree to a degree. Got to spend about 3 hours with the new S. It sounds quite good given its a 4 cylinder engine. Better than the curent m3/4 IMO. And it's a very fast car. I'd say the S is about as fast as the new base 911 and if you've seen the tests the base 911 ran 11.9@118 and was 0-100 mph in 8.5 seconds. Faster than the m3/4. On track or in a straight it will devour the two cars in this test (as well as many others) while having better dynamics and being fun to drive and having scalpel like precision as the boxster has always been known for.
Everyone is downsizing, its not the more enjoyable thing for those of us who love cars but take them for what it is...
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      08-04-2016, 08:42 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise View Post
Have to disagree to a degree. Got to spend about 3 hours with the new S. It sounds quite good given its a 4 cylinder engine. Better than the curent m3/4 IMO. And it's a very fast car. I'd say the S is about as fast as the new base 911 and if you've seen the tests the base 911 ran 11.9@118 and was 0-100 mph in 8.5 seconds. Faster than the m3/4. On track or in a straight it will devour the two cars in this test (as well as many others) while having better dynamics and being fun to drive and having scalpel like precision as the boxster has always been known for.
Everyone is downsizing, its not the more enjoyable thing for those of us who love cars but take them for what it is...
I have not mentioned speed one time in my comment. The words were "qualitative". Qualitatively, a 4 cylinder engine is a piece of crap. Absolutely not worth of a sports car that costs significant amounts of money.
4 cylinder engines are ok for a Golf R, Civic Type R, etc. The Porsche costs multiple times as much as those and should have a better engine.

I'm sure some nutjob could make a one cylinder engine with 800hp that is really really fast. It doesn't change the qualitative aspect which is again, a piece of crap

I look forward to the on track speed of the Boxster S. Maybe now they will not get their doors torn off by simple E92 M3s anymore.
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      08-04-2016, 08:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I have not mentioned speed one time in my comment. The words were "qualitative". Qualitatively, a 4 cylinder engine is a piece of crap. Absolutely not worth of a sports car that costs significant amounts of money.
4 cylinder engines are ok for a Golf R, Civic Type R, etc. The Porsche costs multiple times as much as those and should have a better engine.

I'm sure some nutjob could make a one cylinder engine with 800hp that is really really fast. It doesn't change the qualitative aspect which is again, a piece of crap

I look forward to the on track speed of the Boxster S. Maybe now they will not get their doors torn off by simple E92 M3s anymore.
I can understand that but after spending a lot of time with one, it's still not bad sounding and while it doesn't retain the sonorous wail and scream from the F6, it's quite good from my view.

As for a boxster S having its doors torn off.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ao2spi57eagj

Boxster S is faster on all but 2 tracks where it was made for. If you're taking driving events, then that's down to the driver but equal factors the 981 S was by and large the faster track car. But if it wasn't fast enough in a straight, which is guess you're alluding to, no not the case anymore given how much faster the turbo cars are over their predecessors.

Do you like the current M3/4 and its qualitative characteristics?
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