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      06-01-2016, 08:11 PM   #1
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Arrow SCANS: M2 VS M235i, 228i, 1M and E30 M3 (Road & Track July 16)

Enjoy the entertaining read.... and surprising result!


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http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...mparison-test/
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      06-01-2016, 09:01 PM   #2
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Great read and yea very surprising indeed!!
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      06-01-2016, 09:34 PM   #3
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Great read and yea very surprising indeed!!

I was very surprised too: the 228i could be BMW's greatest secret. Just add the M performance LSD, a chip to increase power, M performance coilovers and brakes and it could be the successor to the E30 M3!
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      06-01-2016, 09:39 PM   #4
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      06-01-2016, 09:57 PM   #5
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Great read. Not completely surprised by result given I've read similar praise for 228. Wonder if the 228 had track pack?

I, too, prefer a lighter, adequately powerful, car for the street versus today's heavy, high horsepower, cars you can really only exercise on the track.

The 228 weighs about the same and is slightly more powerful than my old ZHP - which I loved. Wish it looked as good, and had a naturally aspirated six!
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      06-01-2016, 11:17 PM   #6
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Great article. The 228 I had as loaner was hilarious, but I didn't see that win over the M2 coming. I guess there's a lot said about a car having a usable amount of power for it's platform. The M division lost sight of that balance after the e90 M3 went out of production (not completely their fault, mostly a ramification of keep up with the competition).
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      06-01-2016, 11:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Enjoy the entertaining read.... and surprising result!
Fantastic article! Thanks for posting.
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      06-02-2016, 12:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Great read. Not completely surprised by result given I've read similar praise for 228. Wonder if the 228 had track pack?

I, too, prefer a lighter, adequately powerful, car for the street versus today's heavy, high horsepower, cars you can really only exercise on the track.

The 228 weighs about the same and is slightly more powerful than my old ZHP - which I loved. Wish it looked as good, and had a naturally aspirated six!
From the specs sheet of the article, seems like the 228 had the optional wheels/tyres of the M235i, but otherwise had no performance options such as M performance brakes, LSD, or the likes...
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      06-02-2016, 12:13 AM   #9
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I think balance is something car manufacturers seem to lose focus over in the escalating horsepower war. Balance means smaller engine pushed towards the center of the car instead of sitting on the front axle. You can see it in the R&T profile drawings of the cars...

Smaller engine means less overall weight and better balanced weight and making a nicer to drive car.

I'm pretty sure that BMW when they engineered their E30 M3, had the choice to put the bigger and heavier inline 6, but ultimately chose to remove 2 cylinders from their motorsport inline 6 to make a lighter engine that would fit in the overall balance of the car...
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      06-02-2016, 05:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I was very surprised too: the 228i could be BMW's greatest secret. Just add the M performance LSD, a chip to increase power, M performance coilovers and brakes and it could be the successor to the E30 M3!
All F series 4 cyl BMWs have fantastic inherent balance. Not only do you take something like 100kg out of the nose with a 4 cyl, you put all the remaining engine weight behind the front axle. It makes for trusty, dependable, adjustable neutrality as default cornering behaviour. With an LSD, a stock 330i is probably one of the best handling BMWs you can buy right now. I'm secretly worried that I'll miss how my 328i drives, especially in those first moments of turn in, as the grip loads up on one side and it just hangs neutrally in the corner, awaiting your input.

Not for the first time, I wonder if BMW got it wrong putting a straight 6 into the M2, at least in terms of handling. There's no doubt that putting its excellent chassis with a lighter, better placed engine would make it that much sweeter to drive. A stock 228i is already about as fast in a straight line as an e46 M3 and a piggy back tuned 228i is into the 4s from 0-100, with just 275ish hp. With S55 pistons (should be a straight swap in terms of fit) a new crank, intake, turbo and exhaust, that 2 cyl should be good for at least 320hp, which minus 100kg, would be about as fast as the M2 in a straight line and handle better.
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      06-02-2016, 07:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovewagons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I was very surprised too: the 228i could be BMW's greatest secret. Just add the M performance LSD, a chip to increase power, M performance coilovers and brakes and it could be the successor to the E30 M3!
All F series 4 cyl BMWs have fantastic inherent balance. Not only do you take something like 100kg out of the nose with a 4 cyl, you put all the remaining engine weight behind the front axle. It makes for trusty, dependable, adjustable neutrality as default cornering behaviour. With an LSD, a stock 330i is probably one of the best handling BMWs you can buy right now. I'm secretly worried that I'll miss how my 328i drives, especially in those first moments of turn in, as the grip loads up on one side and it just hangs neutrally in the corner, awaiting your input.

Not for the first time, I wonder if BMW got it wrong putting a straight 6 into the M2, at least in terms of handling. There's no doubt that putting its excellent chassis with a lighter, better placed engine would make it that much sweeter to drive. A stock 228i is already about as fast in a straight line as an e46 M3 and a piggy back tuned 228i is into the 4s from 0-100, with just 275ish hp. With S55 pistons (should be a straight swap in terms of fit) a new crank, intake, turbo and exhaust, that 2 cyl should be good for at least 320hp, which minus 100kg, would be about as fast as the M2 in a straight line and handle better.
I agree and think that what's the M2 should have been. A lighter car with a nice 4 cylinder turbo with plenty enough horsepower but a sweeter balance. Then it would not have competed against the M3/4 but would be a real entry level M car...
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      06-02-2016, 12:27 PM   #12
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Great read, thanks for sharing!

And in before all hell breaks loose.....
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      06-02-2016, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Great read, thanks for sharing!

And in before all hell breaks loose.....
Ha if the bullshit on the 2 forum on 228 vs 235 is any indication, batten down the hatches.
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      06-02-2016, 01:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
I agree and think that what's the M2 should have been. A lighter car with a nice 4 cylinder turbo with plenty enough horsepower but a sweeter balance. Then it would not have competed against the M3/4 but would be a real entry level M car...
If the M2 got the amount of flack it did for not having M mirrors, imagine if it didn't have a straight six!!!

But I do agree. They could've gotten that power out of a 4cyl and reduced car mass and bettered the weight distribution.
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      06-02-2016, 02:05 PM   #15
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Question:
Wich one would you choose if you got it for FREE. All expenses/gas/insurance/tyres/etc paid for the whole life of the car...

(228 needs a nice exhaustpipe and a good lsd and some >50/60 more horses, and a wide bodykit and and....)

Cheers
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      06-02-2016, 02:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Question:
Wich one would you choose if you got it for FREE. All expenses/gas/insurance/tyres/etc paid for the whole life of the car...

(228 needs a nice exhaustpipe and a good lsd and some >50/60 more horses, and a wide bodykit and and....)

Cheers
Robin
M2 hands down. Have driven the other two and was underwhelmed, which is why I held off for the baby-M.
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      06-02-2016, 02:38 PM   #17
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I really enjoyed this article. I can, in theory, see where they are coming from. However, their impressions of the 228i seem completely different from their impressions in this shootout: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...st-scion-fr-s/.

Road and Track. Same magazine. Note that the 228i in that older article was also equipped with the Track Handling package. So what gives? Here are some possibilities:

(a) Different journalists, different preferences (which I can completely respect).
(b) BMW has tuned up the 228i's suspension and steering calibration in the past year.
(c) The competition was different - fighting against the go-kart-like FRS is a different ballgame from fighting against all the nose-heavy 3500lb pigs in this shootout.
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      06-02-2016, 05:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Question:
Wich one would you choose if you got it for FREE. All expenses/gas/insurance/tyres/etc paid for the whole life of the car...

(228 needs a nice exhaustpipe and a good lsd and some >50/60 more horses, and a wide bodykit and and....)

Cheers
Robin
The E30
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      06-02-2016, 07:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neckthrough View Post
I really enjoyed this article. I can, in theory, see where they are coming from. However, their impressions of the 228i seem completely different from their impressions in this shootout: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...st-scion-fr-s/.

Road and Track. Same magazine. Note that the 228i in that older article was also equipped with the Track Handling package. So what gives? Here are some possibilities:

(a) Different journalists, different preferences (which I can completely respect).
(b) BMW has tuned up the 228i's suspension and steering calibration in the past year.
(c) The competition was different - fighting against the go-kart-like FRS is a different ballgame from fighting against all the nose-heavy 3500lb pigs in this shootout.
The 228i in the test you linked is not an M-sport model. Having driven M-sport and non M-sport 228is, steering is different, suspension is different, ESP and TC modes are different over both. It's BMWs fault, for not making this very clear, but there are significant differences between sport/luxury lines and M-sport.
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      06-02-2016, 08:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
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The E30
Ditto.
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      06-02-2016, 08:20 PM   #21
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I have ecu tune on my 228i and mpss tires...when I come out of corner or a left turn to a strait way and hammer the throttle the rear tires seem to slip and not put the power down for traction and the car sort of goes sideways for a bit. I will wonder if lsd or turning of dsc would get rid of this?
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      06-02-2016, 08:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
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The E30
Ditto for me, no hesitation whatsoever!!
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