[fxgmblr]

It's 10C outside, I set the temperature to be the lowest my car setting will go which is 16C, I have the red/blue thumbwheel set to the coldest (blue) setting, however I feel the air blowing out of the vents to definitely be warmer than 16C, probably 20C, and definitely not as cold as the outside air. I am roasting in my BMW at night when it's freezing outside. All I want to do is take the outside air and blow it inside. I don't want to turn on the A/C cause I feel like that's a waste of gas, I mean there is free cold air right outside why do I need to waste energy and have the AC running? My old Toyota Camry had an option to bring in outside air, why can't a luxury BMW do this? P.S. I tried all the settings, "A", "M" and none (off), none of them seem to be able to just blow in the cool outside air.



(yes I know the pic shows outside air 13.5C, this is just an example, I've had other cases where it was 10C or 9C outside and I just want to blow in that fresh cold air, but instead I get 20+C air)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by fxgmblr

It's 10C outside, I set the temperature to be the lowest my car setting will go which is 16C, I have the red/blue thumbwheel set to the coldest (blue) setting, however I feel the air blowing out of the vents to definitely be warmer than 16C, probably 20C, and definitely not as cold as the outside air. I am roasting in my BMW at night when it's freezing outside. All I want to do is take the outside air and blow it inside.

If you run at the lowest temperature setting you should get unheated air from the outside. BMW have always used unregulated settings at the lowest and highest display temperatures, (at the lower end, 16.5c regulated, 16C unregulated). I believe it is the same in the F3x models.

Where the problem can occur running the above, there can be air flow warming due to the heat soak into the HVAC components from the hot engine. But no way in driving along at an ambient of 10C with a setting of 16C should it be pumping in air at ~20C. Perhaps a little above the 10C, something like 12 - 14C. May rise more in stop-start traffic.

[DrivenByE30]

My suggestion:

A/c = off
Auto setting (overall) = off
Recirculation = off (no light = draw outside air in)
Temps = 16c (60f) on both sides
Comfort head temp thumb wheel = blue all the way
Air direction mode = head only (not footwell or windshield)
Head Air vents = open

If all else fail, crack the rear right window down by 2 inches and tilt up the moonroof and voila... You will enjoy direct cold fresh air from the outside.

[Billfitz]

Unless you have the system set to re-circulate it's always drawing in outside air. That's why there's a cabin air filter. The A/C will only kick in if you set the temperature lower than that of the outside air. If the outside air is colder than what you have the temperature set at the A/C doesn't kick in, the heater does.

[Beowulf65]

Often after the car has been run for a bit the engine compartment heats up sufficiently to warm the air passing through the ducts into the passenger compartment. Try cycling the AC on until the air is blowing cool and then turn the AC off. This has worked for me.

[MO_23]

does that wheel for hot or cold even matter when you can select the temperature digitally? I never understood the point of that.. if i set it to 80 obviously its gonna be hot air..and if i set it to 60 it would be less.. Can someone clear that up?

[HighlandPete]

After posting my comments earlier this morning, I thought I'd experiment with my 5-series.

Background: I normally run with the HVAC system on Auto set at 20C, A/C on all the time regardless of temperature. As we have variable output A/C compressors these days, the load is minimal at lower ambient temperatures such as the OP's. I only need a low intensity setting in the temperature range I typically drive. Certainly a 7 - 18C ambient range has very little load on the system.

This morning, while running with a hot engine, I stopped for about 20-minutes. When starting off again with a 16C setting, (11.5C ambient) it took over a mile at ~30mph to have the air temperature from the face vents, drop to a cool value, very hot to start with. Even after a few miles of free flowing traffic it still never dropped to what I'd expect, set at 16C, driving at the 11.5C ambient temperature.

As is mentioned in the quote, heat soak can take a lot of getting rid off without the A/C function.

Originally Posted by Beowulf65

Often after the car has been run for a bit the engine compartment heats up sufficiently to warm the air passing through the ducts into the passenger compartment. Try cycling the AC on until the air is blowing cool and then turn the AC off. This has worked for me.

I switched the A/C to chill the system and then switched it off again. After the chill down, the air did stay much cooler even after the effect of the chill down had been exhausted.

Running the A/C allows the system to work so much better with perfect comfort levels. Personally I can't be messing with manual controls where lots of intervention is needed as conditions change.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MO_23

does that wheel for hot or cold even matter when you can select the temperature digitally? I never understood the point of that.. if i set it to 80 obviously its gonna be hot air..and if i set it to 60 it would be less.. Can someone clear that up?

Simply for fine tuning the face level ventilation. It is a feature I rate very highly in BMW systems, since having it in my E39.

For example, on a cool day it is great running a warm cabin and having the ability to tweak the face temperature on the thumbwheel.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by MO_23

does that wheel for hot or cold even matter when you can select the temperature digitally? I never understood the point of that.. if i set it to 80 obviously its gonna be hot air..and if i set it to 60 it would be less.. Can someone clear that up?

You can find many many much threads in regards to this "mystery" CONFUSING wheel around the Internet.

No other car manufacturer has it (adding to its mystery), but BMW has been the only one having this for decades !

New BMw owners such as yourslf will find it confusing, redundant and just plain stupid but here are the scenarios where one might correctly use it:

A) (Baby don't go) it cold outside (it's actually snowing hard!), so you crank the heat up on both side to a toasty 80F , (hoping to see some action with your lady friend undressing (you wish)) of course after 10 minutes driving with an interior at a hot 80F, you can't handle it no more so what isthe natural thing to do? turn it off?!? Yes (or you can also crack the window down, but remember the snow, yea the snow, so no).....but thankfully you are a dick and you drive a BMW with no functioning blnkers, BUT you have the options of the "wheel" thing: assuming it was turned to the Red (warm) part, you now switch it ever slightly to the blue side (or even all the way to full blue = drawing magical fresh cold air in)
By doing so, you didn't have to adjust the main digital temperature control , you are now actually mixing the hot air blowing both of you at 80F, with the cold fresh air from the outside. The wheel magical mixing air thing only works for the "torso/head" vents!
The air coming out of the windshield vents and the footwell vents are still blowing 80F.
The magical wheel thing is allowing your head to cool down from all this hot action , blowing gentle cooler mixed air to your heads, until you decide you are ready to be back into the Hot action of full 80F by simple toggling the wheel back to full Red.

B) (coming Summer 2016)

[Blubaron79]

Running the AC used little to no extra fuel. It's not the 70s.

[kadify]

Wouldn't it be easier to just open a window..? Or the sunroof?

[PK2348]

Originally Posted by kadify

Wouldn't it be easier to just open a window..? Or the sunroof?

exactly!

[bad karma]

you want to bring outside air inside, unfiltered you say? You're in luck!

Since the late 80's all BMWs have come equipped with BMW PureAir technology.

The controls for enabling PureAir are not found on the center stack or in iDrive. You actually have to use the buttons shown below, located on the driver side door, to engage it. As you can see, there are four buttons, and by pressing all four buttons you will enable the PureAir MAX mode. Current generation F3x's are equipped with the latest PureAir 4-155 modules, enabling all 4 windows to go down at speeds of up to 155MPH.

[Fronzdan]

OP, you probably just need to push the recirc button and make sure the outside vent isn't closed.

And no, opening the windows is not the same as pulling in fresh outside air through the cabin filter....certainly not for anyone with hay fever or who wants a relatively quiet cabin over 40mph.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

My suggestion:

A/c = off
Auto setting (overall) = off
Recirculation = off (no light = draw outside air in)
Temps = 16c (60f) on both sides
Comfort head temp thumb wheel = blue all the way
Air direction mode = head only (not footwell or windshield)
Head Air vents = open

If all else fail, crack the rear right window down by 2 inches and tilt up the moonroof and voila... You will enjoy direct cold fresh air from the outside.

Perfect. This will do the job.

[fxgmblr]

Originally Posted by kadify

Wouldn't it be easier to just open a window..? Or the sunroof?

doing 60-80 mph on the freeway? no..

Yes I end up opening my windows once every minute to let some fresh air in. But it's really loud on the freeway and annoying to keep having to open the windows.

Circulation mode does not take temp down to 16C using outside air. Still was a ~20C.

Anyway I have concluded that BMW's cannot just take in the outside air like normal cars do. You must turn on the A/C if you want as cold as outside air coming into your car. Now whether turning on the A/C requires more work and uses more gas is for another thread.

[sygazelle]

My first car was a '61 VW. It had windwings. Most cars off that era had windwinds or side vents to let unfiltered unprocessed outside air into the car. Boy were they functional. It was great.

If you put them past 90% the wind would be directly in your face, bugs and all. Windwings wouldn't work these days because they break up the window line. But, the side fresh air vents that circumvent the HVAC would be great.

While I'm on memory lane, I loved that '61 bug. Only 40 hp but it was a blast to drive. Totally unsafe. I had apply the brakes during turns in the rain so the car would turn. We thought that was normal. Paid $600 for it. Sold it 100,000 miles later for $600. Not bad!

[Beowulf65]

Originally Posted by fxgmblr

doing 60-80 mph on the freeway? no..

Yes I end up opening my windows once every minute to let some fresh air in. But it's really loud on the freeway and annoying to keep having to open the windows.

Circulation mode does not take temp down to 16C using outside air. Still was a ~20C.

Anyway I have concluded that BMW's cannot just take in the outside air like normal cars do. You must turn on the A/C if you want as cold as outside air coming into your car. Now whether turning on the A/C requires more work and uses more gas is for another thread.

Did you read my post above? It does take in fresh air. The ducting is heated by the heat in the engine compartment. Cool the ducting for a short period with the AC and then you should be fine.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by fxgmblr

It's 10C outside, I set the temperature to be the lowest my car setting will go which is 16C, I have the red/blue thumbwheel set to the coldest (blue) setting, however I feel the air blowing out of the vents to definitely be warmer than 16C, probably 20C, and definitely not as cold as the outside air. I am roasting in my BMW at night when it's freezing outside. All I want to do is take the outside air and blow it inside. I don't want to turn on the A/C cause I feel like that's a waste of gas, I mean there is free cold air right outside why do I need to waste energy and have the AC running? My old Toyota Camry had an option to bring in outside air, why can't a luxury BMW do this? P.S. I tried all the settings, "A", "M" and none (off), none of them seem to be able to just blow in the cool outside air.



(yes I know the pic shows outside air 13.5C, this is just an example, I've had other cases where it was 10C or 9C outside and I just want to blow in that fresh cold air, but instead I get 20+C air)

Depending on the last setting your HVAC was wet to when you shut your car off the HVAC will run those setting for a short while until the computer finally "release" those settings allowing your new manual settings to take over.

In my my last 2 BMWs, 235, 335, and current 340i, if I was using the AC within about 5 minutes of shutting the cars off, then I would get AC air blowing from the vents until the system finally realized I no longer wanted those settings and then released the controls.

To get fresh outside air use ONLY manual mode. I never use "auto" mode because it has a mind of it's own.
I set the temp controls to their lowest setting, which is 60F in the states.
I set recirc to allow outside air in. The center warm/cool horizontal control is set to full cool/blue. Then I simply adjust the level of air flow I like using the fan controls. This gives me full outside air at any flow level I want.

If I want some warmer air mixed in, I turn up the temp controls, adjust the warm/cool mixer to either the middle or to the warmer side, and then adjust the fan level to where I like it.

If I want warm or hot air, I set the temp control to a temp much higher than ambient, set the warm/cool mix to full warm and adjust fan level to the level I want. And adjust vents to blow where you want them to blow.

If you use any of the programmed modes such as front windshield defrost, or "auto" mode, then be prepared to deal with the systems automatic control of you HVAC system where you can some control but overall the auto problem decides what is best and what you really want.
Some people love auto mode. It's similar to the thermostat in your house but not exactly the same.

Just remember, when you go to full manual mode the system may take a couple or few minutes to fully release all previous controls and allow you to do as you please. And do NOT engage "auto" ever or any programmed "presets" or all manual controls are then taken over.

You can control the rear window defrost by itself without the HVAC taking over. But you can use the front window defrost auto setting or it will go into auto mode.
To manually defrost the front windshield, turn the turn temp up to maximum, adjust the mix control to fully warm/red, set the vent control to blow only towards the window or any combination, and set the fan speed to maximum and let the heat do it's work.

For maximum AC/cooling set the temp to lowest setting, set recirc to recirc internal air, set warm/bool control to fully cool/blue, and blast the fan speed to any vent you like.
However, once the car cools down remember to set the recirc back to allow outside air in or you may foggy windows.

Another tip for winter driver when you may be getting fogging inside windows may sure you turn the AC button along with full heat seating and the cool/warm control to fully warm. The AC will dehumidify the warm/hot air as well as dehumidify the internal cabin air and that will help clear the windows of fog.
This also help in stormy weather when it's very humid and all of a sudden there is a thunderstorm that had cold and humid air that can cause fogging widows. Turn the AC one and add heat, that will greatly and quickly help clear up the fogging.

Try it when you need it.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by fxgmblr

Anyway I have concluded that BMW's cannot just take in the outside air like normal cars do. You must turn on the A/C if you want as cold as outside air coming into your car. Now whether turning on the A/C requires more work and uses more gas is for another thread.

I believe you are missing the reason you are not getting an outside air match. As has been said, it is heat soak from the engine compartment. Not a BMW specific issue either, I had VW models with exactly the same issue. There can be an elevated temperature due to heat soak, it is variable and overcome in many cars with use of the A/C, which makes for constant regulation.

To help you grasp the way it works, I've experimented today with my 5-series and a thermometer, checking the airflow temperatures.

Started cold at 11C ambient, setting to 16C, no A/C function. Face vent temperature was controlled to within 2.5 degress (13.5C) while driving through the warm up phase and on open roads at 50 - 60mph.

Dropping speed after 10 miles, (engine now hot) and the face vent airflow rose by about another degree to 14.5C.

After stopping for 30 minutes, I drove 4 miles in 30/40mph zones. Initial vent temperature was over 22C, it took the 4 miles to drop back to less than 17C.

I stopped for about an hour then continued my trip. This time with an hour's heat soak the face level air vent temperature was over 30C when starting off, it took over 8 miles to drop back to 17C.

I experimented further with the settings, the most efficient way to get the fastest temperature drop off, and closest to ambient temperature, is the manual mode, set to face vents only. Even then you need quite an airflow to keep the temperature down, particularly when driving speed drops and natural cooling is reduced, when airflow temperatures can creep up again.

I've just made a 12 mile run home with an ambient of 12C, manual mode set at 16C, face vents only. After about 4 miles at almost maximum fan speeds, (all bars but one on the display) I was driving with just a 2.5C elevated air temperature, 14.5C. Into my village with mid range fan speeds and within a 1/4 mile the airflow temperature was rising to above 17C.

What does this show us? Heat from the engine is the issue, so much to get rid off the HVAC system can't disperse it all without elevating the airflow to the cabin.

Using A/C... the 'apparent problem' is invisible to the user.

[gds52]

Originally Posted by fxgmblr

doing 60-80 mph on the freeway? no..

Yes I end up opening my windows once every minute to let some fresh air in. But it's really loud on the freeway and annoying to keep having to open the windows.

Circulation mode does not take temp down to 16C using outside air. Still was a ~20C.

Anyway I have concluded that BMW's cannot just take in the outside air like normal cars do. You must turn on the A/C if you want as cold as outside air coming into your car. Now whether turning on the A/C requires more work and uses more gas is for another thread.

I have same problem in my e93. It just doesn't bring in fresh air...it brings in warm air.

[DerekS]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Simply for fine tuning the face level ventilation. It is a feature I rate very highly in BMW systems, since having it in my E39.

For example, on a cool day it is great running a warm cabin and having the ability to tweak the face temperature on the thumbwheel.

Yes, what a great BMW feature !!! The whole point of having the temperature wheel for the upper vents is to be able to cool the air that is directed @ one's face. This helps to keep the driver awake !!!!