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      03-13-2016, 03:23 AM   #1
BiscottiGelato
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M2 vs M235 on Daily Driving

I test drove the M4 and the M235 back to back and find the M4 quite loud and rough for daily driving purposes. Auto-rev match drove me nuts on the M4, while heel-toeing the M235 felt completely natural to me. I know all this creature comfort would not be missed once the M2 hits the track, but I don't know how many days people manage to get their cars on the track. My highest record is like 5 or 6 days a year. For the other 365 days (yeah, have to drive the thing to the track, so a track day is also a daily drive day), NVH and all that jazz is important to me also.

So, how would one think about the M2 vs the M235 on daily driving? I like the M2 for the track capability and a lil bit of whoring over actually owning an 'M' car. But when it comes down to it, will I be paying more to suffer more during the bulk of my driving time?
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      03-13-2016, 03:33 AM   #2
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I reccommend this:



and this:








Better get an M235i when you're worried about things like that imho.

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      03-13-2016, 04:26 AM   #3
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I can't get my head around all these people that think you should be driving around on the road heel & toeing! This is not how you drive a manual day to day. Sure there is satisfaction from it, but you need to adopt a different driving style and seating position like you do on track.in which case DSC will be off and the car won't rev match.

In Europe most of us have manual cars, and grew up driving them. No one drives around using heel and toe day to day (or even ever) on the roads, and most cars are not designed to be driven in this way. All the comments I read from people here are just bewildering! For me the rev matching feature is a good thing.
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      03-13-2016, 06:08 AM   #4
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I don't know why you would not ever be doing it on the road. I rev match all my downshifts basically, and whether it's heel-and-toe or not only depends on if I need to brake. I also don't understand why you would have a different seating position. I sit at the optimum spot for controlling the car all the time.

Some people seem to think it's literally "heel and toe". I brake with the left half of the foot and use the right side of the foot to actuate the throttle.

To the OP:

The M2 is not going to be any softer than the M4 (non-ZCP, anyway) and it may actually be louder although I haven't compared C&D's measurements. If that's your primary concern then I would pass on the M2.
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      03-13-2016, 06:32 AM   #5
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Of course a 235i is a quieter, more comfortable car for DD duty compared to the M2. Many people aren't bothered by the higher NVH and stiffness of a sportier car... my M4 is loud and rough (no adaptive suspension) and it never bothers me and is my 365 day car. It would bother my wife so she doesn't drive it often.

If you value comfort and quiet over sportiness and fun (which clearly the M2 will have more of even for street) than the M2 is a less suitable daily car. For me, I find the more visceral feel, the stiffness and sounds a sporty car make very enjoyable and, therefore, for me the M2 is a BETTER car for DD duty. If you are worried about ride stiffness and sound level, the M235i will be better for you IMO.
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      03-13-2016, 06:59 AM   #6
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I can't imagine that the M2 will be over dampened for the road, but it may be stiff. If the suspension rebound isn't too type likely as your daily drive, you could always consider the MP suspension option. Changing tyres world also reduce road noise.

Ref heel and toe - maybe we're talking about different things. In Europe and in Motorsport, this is braking with toe of the right foot. And blipping the accelerator
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      03-13-2016, 07:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
In Europe most of us have manual cars, and grew up driving them.
Yep, agree.

Quote:
No one drives around using heel and toe day to day (or even ever) on the roads, and most cars are not designed to be driven in this way.
No, don't agree.

Until I moved to the dark side with the M135i and got the auto, I always used to heel-and-toe. Why wouldn't you? It's a technique for smoothness and mechanical sympathy as well as balance. The first two points apply on the road as well as the track. Especially in NA cars like the Civic Type-R [the real EP3, not that FN2 nonsense ] when you're changing gear every few seconds.

The huge torque and power range of the N55 makes a manual a bit pointless, IMHO, but if people want to stay old-school, all power to them! Indeed, all of the auto owners amongst us should thank the manual owners for keeping the technology alive for our weekend/track cars.
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      03-13-2016, 07:19 AM   #8
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My God, I don't know where this "will it be too hard to DD" is coming from? I'd like to see how some of you, who are concerned about DDing the M2, in a 30 year old beater.

It's not like BMW M is creating track day weapons. And it's not like any of us have driven it on the street, except this one lucky guy from UAE. Ask him in the thread if you cannot wait until April.
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      03-13-2016, 07:42 AM   #9
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Gotta bear in mind that the M235 is not an M car. As such, it is more generic, and not as focused. This will undoubtedly make it more comfortable and slightly more civilised than am M car which is surely built to deliver something different. That said, I'm sure it will be fine as a daily.
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      03-13-2016, 07:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanum-UK View Post
Until I moved to the dark side with the M135i and got the auto, I always used to heel-and-toe. Why wouldn't you? It's a technique for smoothness and mechanical sympathy as well as balance. The first two points apply on the road as well as the track. Especially in NA cars like the Civic Type-R [the real EP3, not that FN2 nonsense ] when you're changing gear every few seconds.

The huge torque and power range of the N55 makes a manual a bit pointless, IMHO, but if people want to stay old-school, all power to them! Indeed, all of the auto owners amongst us should thank the manual owners for keeping the technology alive for our weekend/track cars.
Sorry, my last msg got cut as I was on my phone. Perhaps we are talking cross purposes. I'm on about being on the brake whilst blipping the throttle when the clutch engages to rev match with the selected gear. When I'm on the road, me and my mates and everyone else I have spoken to (ARDS instructors, race drivers) stays firmly on the brake with the left foot and then rolls on to the throttle. When we are on the track we are on both pedals at once when setting the car up for corners etc. That was my understanding of heel and toe.

With regard to Type Rs, I drive the JDM FD2 - the best of the lot! It'll be going when my M2 arrives. The FD2 is very involving to drive, you lose that involvement in a DCT/PDK/DSG IMHO so i'm going for the manual.
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      03-13-2016, 07:57 AM   #11
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u don't want an M2 if ur concerned about interior noise or stiffness on ride.
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      03-13-2016, 08:02 AM   #12
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An "M" car is definately not for you as a daily driver.

The M235i or the 435i are probably more suitable for your taste. Those the cars are excellent DD and you will have fun on the track with them IMHO.
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      03-13-2016, 09:33 AM   #13
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Too loud??? Wth??? It's a "performance" vehicle, not a weekend road trip grocery getter.

You're in the market for the wrong vehicle...
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      03-13-2016, 11:17 AM   #14
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It's a fair point that the op has raised Imo. I've been thinking along these lines when it was mentioned that the sound deadening had been ripped out to save 25llbs or whatever it was and seeing the decibel rating of the M2 on WOT compared to other cars on another thread.
I want a sporty car,but I don't want tinnitus after a 300 mile drive and to feel exhausted because of the NVH for example.
It's a little bit of a gamble and one of the disadvantages of being an early adopter and not being able to test the drive the car I guess.
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      03-13-2016, 12:06 PM   #15
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If you thought the M4 was too noisy, you will likely think the M2 is more so. The M2 is supposed to have less sound deadening than the M4, and it's also a smaller car. That equates to a more noisy car in most cases. But some people will interpret 'loud and rough' as feedback and feel, and welcome it.
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      03-13-2016, 12:38 PM   #16
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I have an e90 335i with bisltein b16 coil-overs, I swapped the 18" run flats for 19" PSS. Swapped the diff, short throw, PE, DP... The list goes on.

My point, the car went from a soft daily driver to something very aggressive that my wife doesn't enjoy. (She prefers her X5d)

It's all about your preference, and the type of roads you get to enjoy on the way to the office each day!

Absolutely love the way my car drives, I've been waiting and thrilled for this car, turn key fun! Worst thing about it, will be the first 2k km...

As a DD, I just need that feeling of control/power/precision for a few seconds each day to keep me smiling! Now the track...Can't wait!
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      03-13-2016, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscottiGelato View Post
But when it comes down to it, will I be paying more to suffer more during the bulk of my driving time?
Yes.
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      03-13-2016, 01:24 PM   #18
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I test drove an M4 and I really liked the suspension. If anything I prefer that the M235i had a stiffer suspension. With that said, the M4 was a bit noisy in the cabin. With the deadening materials that they removed from the M2, it'll be even louder. I personally prefer a quieter car (not Lexus quiet and not bone jarring sporty loud- just somewhere in the middle). It really is about how much one can tolerate. Some likes to hear their car all the time. I prefer a quieter place to listen to music and audiobooks during my drives.
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      03-13-2016, 01:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscottiGelato View Post
But when it comes down to it, will I be paying more to suffer more during the bulk of my driving time?
To quote MT's review of the M2:

"Without adjustable dampers, and with a wheelbase 4.7 inches shorter than the M4’s, the M2 rides stiffly. This will be a problem only to those who buy an M-car because it’s the most expensive model in the lineup but don’t want to spill their three-pump chai soy sugar-free nonfat mocha lattes on the way into work. To you folks, may we also recommend buying the automatic and then never speaking to us again. It’s over."
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...t-test-review/

Seriously, cars that ride like the M2 have their place and time. Fortunately, for me that's all the time!
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      03-13-2016, 03:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Sorry, my last msg got cut as I was on my phone. Perhaps we are talking cross purposes. I'm on about being on the brake whilst blipping the throttle when the clutch engages to rev match with the selected gear.
Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Left foot working the clutch, right foot working half on the brake, half on the accelerator to blip on a downshift.
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      03-13-2016, 03:30 PM   #21
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I can't believe this hasn't been deleted by a mod
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      03-14-2016, 03:56 AM   #22
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It's hard to say. I got a quote from my auto insurance broker for the 228i, M235i, and the M3/M4. Unfortunately, there is no quote for the M2 yet.

The M235i was only a bit higher than the 228i, but the M3/M4 rate skyrockets disproportionately compared to its underworld sibling.

Insurance rates include many factors including Canadian weight was what the agent said. I'm hoping they measure the driver with Ariana Grande rather than Rita McNeil.

The apparent dealership fees are a bit more taxing than most would prefer so this could be a game changer.
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