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      01-11-2016, 09:57 PM   #1
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M2 or 2014 Cayman S?

At some point in the future, I was thinking of getting a 2014 Cayman S, they should come in at around $55k CPO. Which is about the same as an M2. For those of you who have driven a Cayman S and have an idea of what to expect from an M2 (being that is a shrunken M3); what are your thoughts? 2 seats are not ideal (as I have a son) but I have a 2nd vehicle that works when I am transporting more than 1 other person.
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      01-11-2016, 10:39 PM   #2
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Dude. I'm in the same boat as you.
  • I'm on the Waiting list at BMW Mountain View in California - #4 - Worried that I won't get the M2 until 2017
  • I found a Boxster S for around 55K with under 5K miles with all the features I want -I would have to retrofit the Sports Exhaust. (2014 model)
  • Found a GTS model which looks to be around 65K and that is also enticing.

I have driving the Cayman and Boxster S and they were so much fun to drive. i had it for about 4 days. I don't know what to expect out of the M2. I'm planning on going into the dealer to try an M235i so i can make a better decision. One thing is for sure, you can't go wrong. These are the decisions in life you want to have.

But I think if you were speccing a brand new Cayman S or Boxster, then the price doesn't make any sense. The M2 wins easily but a used Cayman and Boxster all that BS options are lost - might work out.

Another thing to really consider -- If the M2 is that hard to get, and you are not high in the waiting list, how long will it take for you to get one? Also, trying to find a dealer (especially in California for me) to give me MSRP will be a challenge. I'm emailing my BMW dealer now to get some assurances. If I hear "mark up", then my decision is a bit easier.
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      01-11-2016, 11:20 PM   #3
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I would say that the main things to consider upfront are how you value NA vs FI engines based on how you plan to use the car (or of course what your preferences are even if the opposite might be "better" for the majority of your use) and how much you value chassis dynamics compared to torque and power, since there's fun to be had from each attribute but most people if pushed will always prioritize one over the other. The Cayman is going to have the advantage in being mid-engine and significantly lighter. The 3500 lb figure for the M2 is the major letdown in what otherwise looks to be a great offering IMHO, especially given that the M4 gives you a lot more car all around for very little additional weight penalty, albeit with a larger than expected price differential given how much on the M2 is standard. I still personally think the M2 at its size should have been 3300 lbs tops, but it is what it is. I'm however biased because I had an E92 M3 until recently but after I drove a friend's BRZ, I was awakened to the virtues of a lightweight car, and I vowed that I would never buy a fun/track car heavier than my E92.

On the other hand, the M2 has rear seats as you note, and I've seen several forum members say that the joy of taking their kids with them for a drive far outweighs any performance superiority of some other 2-seater car, so weigh that one carefully. And if those considerations don't sway you firmly one way or the other, you can of course go test drive a Cayman S now to see what it would be like, but since Porsche's option list is the exact opposite of the M2's option list, you might want to find an ordering guide to see what's important to you to aid your shopping, and even your test drive. For example, the Cayman S has three different suspensions: standard, PASM (2-mode active suspension), and X73 static "sport suspension", each one 10mm lower than the last one. X73 is considered the best handling overall, and PASM is considered the most versatile given its comfortable Normal mode and still very capable Sport mode. X73 cars are hard to come by, though.

The nearest direct experience I have with the comparison you're looking for is a test drive in a Boxster S with X73 suspension and time spent on back roads in a friend's 1M, but the time in the Boxster was fairly limited and not on fun roads, unfortunately, and my GT4 experience probably isn't a fair comparison. One thing I distinctly remember about the Boxster test drive though is that you have to hold gears longer than you'll be used to based on modern BMW experience, and this was true even though my tester had PDK. The 981 platform has fairly long gearing (6MT even more so), which made me short shift, and the lower power of the Boxster compared to my M3 meant that the short shifting left me with much less power than expected, so that will take some getting used to if you go that route, whereas the M2 I'm sure will have plenty of thrust even at higher gears and lower RPMs thanks to its gearing and being FI.
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      01-11-2016, 11:21 PM   #4
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M2 is going to be a much better "value" for the price and more practical. IMHO
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      01-12-2016, 07:52 PM   #5
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This has been my dilemma for a while too. M2 or used 981s.
I drove a 987s and the 981/s...just phenomenal. So toss-able. And looks amazing.
Presently, I'm committed to an M2 for practicality sake (may change mind again tomorrow lol) but what's worrying most re M2 is allocation. I'm #5 and a (necessary) spring delivery is not looking good - despite what I'm being told by SA's. Not sure if I can place too much trust in them...
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      01-12-2016, 08:39 PM   #6
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Yeah i just called my dealer:

I'm #3 on his list but and #6 overall. (WTF!!!). I thought I was much closer. I don't care to be on HIS list. I want to be on THE LIST.

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      01-12-2016, 08:57 PM   #7
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The M235i is probably not comparable to a BMW M2 as the 135i was not comparable to the 1M: M cars have a way better chassis, suspension and engine.

I never driven a Cayman S, but the Carrera 997.2S was really fun to drive: rock solid, easy to handle, it almost felt like driving my Golf R. What is really surprising with the Porsche NA cars is their linear power: the engine keeps on pulling!

I opted out the Cayman because it is only a 2 seater...
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      01-13-2016, 06:54 AM   #8
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I am on my second 981S cayman. I have test driven a m235i, thinking about it as a possible replacement after reading all the positive reviews. In terms of sheer driving experience and enjoyment, there was no comparison between the m235i and my 981S. The 981S offered a much more visceral and engaging driving experience. The m235i was a nice drive, but it still couldn't compare. I still noticed turbo lag and the sound of the engine was not nearly as good, it didn't offer as precise or direct handling. A 981S feels a bit like a race car, in a good way, the 235i felt like a nice fun sport coupe.

I am considering the m2 as a replacement for the 981S just for the sake of something new and different, but if I had never had a 981S I would take one over the M2 any day. The M2 will obviously offer a much more engaging experience than a 235i but I don't think it will quite reach the level of a 981s.
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      01-13-2016, 08:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
I am on my second 981S cayman. I have test driven a m235i, thinking about it as a possible replacement after reading all the positive reviews. In terms of sheer driving experience and enjoyment, there was no comparison between the m235i and my 981S. The 981S offered a much more visceral and engaging driving experience. The m235i was a nice drive, but it still couldn't compare. I still noticed turbo lag and the sound of the engine was not nearly as good, it didn't offer as precise or direct handling. A 981S feels a bit like a race car, in a good way, the 235i felt like a nice fun sport coupe.

I am considering the m2 as a replacement for the 981S just for the sake of something new and different, but if I had never had a 981S I would take one over the M2 any day. The M2 will obviously offer a much more engaging experience than a 235i but I don't think it will quite reach the level of a 981s.


IMHO it`s all a matter of perception and personal preference.

I traded in my Cayman GTS on an M2 because I didn`t like the seating position and the steering characteristics.
The CGTS is an excellent sports car, but only when you step on it, it needs high revs to have driving fun, just for moderate driving the car will not be done justice.
The M2 will be more allround in driving, not necessary as visceral as the CTS, but for DD for sure no lesser car.
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      01-13-2016, 08:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
IMHO it`s all a matter of perception and personal preference.

I traded in my Cayman GTS on an M2 because I didn`t like the seating position and the steering characteristics.
The CGTS is an excellent sports car, but only when you step on it, it needs high revs to have driving fun, just for moderate driving the car will not be done justice.
The M2 will be more allround in driving, not necessary as visceral as the CTS, but for DD for sure no lesser car.
That's somehow also my complain about the Cayman R I test drove last summer.

It's just not that fast. You really have to rev that engine, because low/mid-rpm torque is not that great and you hope after 5000 rpm it'll really goes, but it doesn't... Beyond 6500 rpm there's no real need to go further, not like in the good old days of my first Honda CRX Vtec...

Sound is great, but in the end this is not what's it all about. Riding comfort is really good.

I was really disappointed to my own surprise. Matt Farah made a real good Review about the Cayman R and the 1M coupe. And I can fully confirm his view about the two cars.

The 1M of a friend of mine truly blew me away. Great sound and an engine that really goes, especially beyond 4500 rpm.

That's why I'm now in the BMW camp and am really looking forward to my M2 which will hopefully be available mid April!
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      01-13-2016, 12:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammitcubs View Post
Dude. I'm in the same boat as you.
  • I'm on the Waiting list at BMW Mountain View in California - #4 - Worried that I won't get the M2 until 2017
  • I found a Boxster S for around 55K with under 5K miles with all the features I want -I would have to retrofit the Sports Exhaust. (2014 model)
  • Found a GTS model which looks to be around 65K and that is also enticing.

I have driving the Cayman and Boxster S and they were so much fun to drive. i had it for about 4 days. I don't know what to expect out of the M2. I'm planning on going into the dealer to try an M235i so i can make a better decision. One thing is for sure, you can't go wrong. These are the decisions in life you want to have.

But I think if you were speccing a brand new Cayman S or Boxster, then the price doesn't make any sense. The M2 wins easily but a used Cayman and Boxster all that BS options are lost - might work out.

Another thing to really consider -- If the M2 is that hard to get, and you are not high in the waiting list, how long will it take for you to get one? Also, trying to find a dealer (especially in California for me) to give me MSRP will be a challenge. I'm emailing my BMW dealer now to get some assurances. If I hear "mark up", then my decision is a bit easier.
I'm pretty pissed of right now . When I contacted BMW of Mountain View in October they said "we don't have a waitlist now, orders will start in Feb/March so let's talk in Jan.". After this, I asked the CA again I want to put a deposit etc. He said "Don't worry, I will keep you posted" WTF! I don't trusty these guys anymore.

When did you get on the waitlist btw?

Last edited by M-Pilot; 01-13-2016 at 12:51 PM..
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      01-13-2016, 02:16 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
I'm pretty pissed of right now . When I contacted BMW of Mountain View in October they said "we don't have a waitlist now, orders will start in Feb/March so let's talk in Jan.". After this, I asked the CA again I want to put a deposit etc. He said "Don't worry, I will keep you posted" WTF! I don't trusty these guys anymore.

When did you get on the waitlist btw?
I believe it happened about a few days it was announced - No deposit, but i had to send in my drivers license photo. I have called for months prior. I called the BMW dealer in East Bay, Steven Creek in San Jose and BMW Mountain View. I couldn't get through to the east bay location, steven's creek was up to #10. I thought I'd called BMW mountain and they put me on the list - he said he remembered me because I called and talked with the dude months before about this upcoming car. He put me on the list.

He didn't go out of his way to contact me from what I remember.....and yes, when i went to look at a the M235i, the dealers were not friendly. I told them i was working with someone online but that person was not at the dealership on Sunday - the other dealers wouldn't help me because "IM NOT THEIR COMMISSION". That's that kinda of stuff that makes me want to talk to a manager and then walk over to the porsche dealer and have him see me walk out with a porsche car instead.

Yeah I feel your pain dude - if for some reason, I decide to get a 981, you can take my allocation.
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      01-13-2016, 02:52 PM   #13
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BMW M2 is going to, by far, be a better daily car than a Porsche. While for most, neither of those car are daily cars, the M2 will be significantly easier to live with.
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      01-13-2016, 06:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORM235i View Post
BMW M2 is going to, by far, be a better daily car than a Porsche. While for most, neither of those car are daily cars, the M2 will be significantly easier to live with.
That is completely true but the problem is trying to get a M2 allocation. If you got one, then that is awesome for but for a car with a great price point - it's going to sell like hot cakes and if the rumors are true about limited production and availability - some people don't want to wait two years for the car.

Hell, you can buy a 981S now and then switch cars later.
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      01-13-2016, 06:31 PM   #15
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Money aside I love the Cayman S!
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      01-14-2016, 12:33 AM   #16
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Personally I tip my hat to Cayman S/GTS because the purity of mid-engine and balance plus it looks like a sports car, no one will get it confused with a 2 series.
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      01-14-2016, 08:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammitcubs View Post
Dude. I'm in the same boat as you.
  • I'm on the Waiting list at BMW Mountain View in California - #4 - Worried that I won't get the M2 until 2017
  • I found a Boxster S for around 55K with under 5K miles with all the features I want -I would have to retrofit the Sports Exhaust. (2014 model)
  • Found a GTS model which looks to be around 65K and that is also enticing.

I have driving the Cayman and Boxster S and they were so much fun to drive. i had it for about 4 days. I don't know what to expect out of the M2. I'm planning on going into the dealer to try an M235i so i can make a better decision. One thing is for sure, you can't go wrong. These are the decisions in life you want to have.

But I think if you were speccing a brand new Cayman S or Boxster, then the price doesn't make any sense. The M2 wins easily but a used Cayman and Boxster all that BS options are lost - might work out.

Another thing to really consider -- If the M2 is that hard to get, and you are not high in the waiting list, how long will it take for you to get one? Also, trying to find a dealer (especially in California for me) to give me MSRP will be a challenge. I'm emailing my BMW dealer now to get some assurances. If I hear "mark up", then my decision is a bit easier.
Don't waste your time with the 235 - it's going to be far different than any 981 experience you've had. And the M2 will be a much, much better sorted car - especially from a suspension and braking standpoint.

Good choices between the 981 and M2 though.
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      01-14-2016, 08:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORM235i View Post
BMW M2 is going to, by far, be a better daily car than a Porsche. While for most, neither of those car are daily cars, the M2 will be significantly easier to live with.
Really depends on what you want out of your DD to be honest. I don't find my 981 uncomfortable at all - in commuting or in a few 2-3 hour drives that I have taken in it.

Now, if you're looking for a soft and really compliant ride - no, there are certainly cars that will do that more effectively. Your 235 is one of them.
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      01-14-2016, 08:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORM235i View Post
BMW M2 is going to, by far, be a better daily car than a Porsche. While for most, neither of those car are daily cars, the M2 will be significantly easier to live with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25
Really depends on what you want out of your DD to be honest. I don't find my 981 uncomfortable at all - in commuting or in a few 2-3 hour drives that I have taken in it.

Now, if you're looking for a soft and really compliant ride - no, there are certainly cars that will do that more effectively. Your 235 is one of them.
This. I'm DDing my GT4 with the lightweight buckets and I have zero complaints. Scraping that I had feared would be a big issue turns out to be very rare, the suspension that I feared would be very harsh on regular roads turns out to be just firm like the E9x M3's EDC between Normal and Sport, so entirely livable, and the buckets that I thought might be uncomfortable for long drives turn out to be the most comfortable seats I've ever used. I drove 2 hours non-stop on the freeway in them and got out with zero aches or pains, and my wife was able to nap in them! Sure getting out takes a bit more effort, but even that isn't very difficult with just a tiny bit of practice. And there's even a surprising amount of cargo capacity in this car!

Granted I have access to my wife's Mini if I need to move something very large, so it isn't technically the only car available, but it's MY only car, so a regular 981 could absolutely be DDed as long as you didn't regularly need more than 2 seats.
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      01-14-2016, 05:31 PM   #20
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This. I'm DDing my GT4 with the lightweight buckets and I have zero complaints. Scraping that I had feared would be a big issue turns out to be very rare, the suspension that I feared would be very harsh on regular roads turns out to be just firm like the E9x M3's EDC between Normal and Sport, so entirely livable, and the buckets that I thought might be uncomfortable for long drives turn out to be the most comfortable seats I've ever used. I drove 2 hours non-stop on the freeway in them and got out with zero aches or pains, and my wife was able to nap in them! Sure getting out takes a bit more effort, but even that isn't very difficult with just a tiny bit of practice. And there's even a surprising amount of cargo capacity in this car!

Granted I have access to my wife's Mini if I need to move something very large, so it isn't technically the only car available, but it's MY only car, so a regular 981 could absolutely be DDed as long as you didn't regularly need more than 2 seats.
You DD your GT4!!?? OMG!! BALLER!!!
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      01-14-2016, 05:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TomAce View Post
That's somehow also my complain about the Cayman R I test drove last summer.

It's just not that fast. You really have to rev that engine, because low/mid-rpm torque is not that great and you hope after 5000 rpm it'll really goes, but it doesn't... Beyond 6500 rpm there's no real need to go further, not like in the good old days of my first Honda CRX Vtec...

Sound is great, but in the end this is not what's it all about. Riding comfort is really good.

I was really disappointed to my own surprise. Matt Farah made a real good Review about the Cayman R and the 1M coupe. And I can fully confirm his view about the two cars.

The 1M of a friend of mine truly blew me away. Great sound and an engine that really goes, especially beyond 4500 rpm.

That's why I'm now in the BMW camp and am really looking forward to my M2 which will hopefully be available mid April!

M2 for the win as the better every car.
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      01-14-2016, 05:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammitcubs
You DD your GT4!!?? OMG!! BALLER!!!
Ha, yeah. I don't believe in paying bunch of money to own a piece of garage art and marvel at how pristine it is for years. I buy cars to enjoy them from behind the wheel. To be fair, my DD needs are pretty mild. No kids, I work from home a fair amount, and the office is only about 6 miles away even when I do go in. Plus my wife travels by air for work a lot too, leaving her car available for my use while she's away as long as I take her to the airport and pick her back up. That was handy for the last few weeks when temperatures were pretty low for these Cup 2 tires. I can always get another set of wheels if that becomes a real issue, but I doubt it.
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