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      10-21-2015, 10:30 AM   #1
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M2 vs Honda Civic

Since this seems to be the most active comparison it deserves its own thread.

Per Automobile Mag:
While we believe that a car’s worth isn’t solely defined by its lap time around the Green Hell, it is a good way to compare the performance of new sports cars, especially within BMW’s own stable. For reference, the 2016 BMW M2 is 6 seconds off the pace of the current BMW M4, which does the deed in 7:52. That’s no surprise given BMW’s desire to protect the status of its halo performance car in the M3/M4, but it's notable that both the M3/M4 and the M2 are still slower around the ‘Ring than the outrageous Honda Civic Type R, which finishes the circuit in an impressive 7:50.
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      10-21-2015, 10:36 AM   #2
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Honestly, not sure how any comparison is relevant at this point...

It was a Type R prototype (no front seat, no AC, no radio, etc.) on at least R comps if not full-on slicks. That car also beat, by way of example only,

M4
GT-R (2008 and previous versions)
Gallardo LP 560-4
996/997 911 Turbo
F430
C5 Z06
Hell, it almost beat the C6 Z06 (1 second back)...


The time is not indicative of what a production version on street tires would run...
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      10-21-2015, 10:42 AM   #3
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dumbest comparison ever....Nurburgring lap times don't mean shit. Criteria for simpletons, really.
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      10-21-2015, 10:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangover View Post
Since this seems to be the most active comparison it deserves its own thread.

Per Automobile Mag:
While we believe that a car’s worth isn’t solely defined by its lap time around the Green Hell, it is a good way to compare the performance of new sports cars, especially within BMW’s own stable. For reference, the 2016 BMW M2 is 6 seconds off the pace of the current BMW M4, which does the deed in 7:52. That’s no surprise given BMW’s desire to protect the status of its halo performance car in the M3/M4, but it's notable that both the M3/M4 and the M2 are still slower around the ‘Ring than the outrageous Honda Civic Type R, which finishes the circuit in an impressive 7:50.
You're the guys who absolutely hates the M2 and constantly rags on it, right?
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Last edited by Adem1534; 10-21-2015 at 11:10 AM..
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      10-21-2015, 10:59 AM   #5
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buy it
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      10-21-2015, 11:01 AM   #6
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Anyone who thinks that time is for a production version CTR is not very bright. As fast as a c6 Z06? L oh freaking L
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      10-21-2015, 11:54 AM   #7
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I like how there are a few obvious individuals on here that has a clear agenda behind every comment they make, whether is bashing or praising.

For example, some bash the M2 anyway they can, and some can't make a comment without praising their own current car in some way. It sure makes the forum much more entertaining.
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      10-21-2015, 12:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
You're the guys who absolutely hates the M2 and constantly rags on it, right?
The one and only.

Quite the village idiot (not that someone is an idiot for not liking the M2...), but yeah, he's a real winner.
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      10-21-2015, 12:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
dumbest comparison ever....Nurburgring lap times don't mean shit. Criteria for simpletons, really.
I'm not trying to start anything, but please tell what means shit then? Overall power to weight? Weight balance? Steering feel? Suspension setup? Aero? Tires? Transmission? Stopping power? Blah blah

All these things are what produces a ring time. A ring time is arguably flawed but its a simple way to access the sum of all the parts in terms of a car's competance. Especially for sport orientated vehicles.

Is shouldnt be the sole criteria for car ownership but to say only simpletons pay attention to it is a bit silly.

Looking at ring times for a dodge caravan is idiotic. Looking at ring times for a M2 is not.

I can argue the M4 GTS was designed soley around trying to achieve a good ring time. And why do people like it? Becuase it usually takes a badass car to put up a time like that.

Btw, i would never consider a type R over a m2.
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      10-21-2015, 12:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummm2
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
dumbest comparison ever....Nurburgring lap times don't mean shit. Criteria for simpletons, really.
I'm not trying to start anything, but please tell what means shit then? Overall power to weight? Weight balance? Steering feel? Suspension setup? Aero? Tires? Transmission? Stopping power? Blah blah

All these things are what produces a ring time. A ring time is arguably flawed but its a simple way to access the sum of all the parts in terms of a car's competance. Especially for sport orientated vehicles.

Is shouldnt be the sole criteria for car ownership but to say only simpletons pay attention to it is a bit silly.

Looking at ring times for a dodge caravan is idiotic. Looking at ring times for a M2 is not.

I can argue the M4 GTS was designed soley around trying to achieve a good ring time. And why do people like it? Becuase it usually takes a badass car to put up a time like that.

Btw, i would never consider a type R over a m2.
a ring time means nothing. at all. NADA. zilch. the only reason it would mean anything is if you were a professional race car driver who races at the Nurburgring.

Most of the greatest cars of all time in my mind (Alpine A110, Alfa Romeo GTAm, Lancia Fulvia, BMW 2002 Turbo) are going to be slow as a drugged elephant around the Nurburgring....do I care? NO.

Does analyzing the 1M's ring time make any difference as to how much I absolutely am in love with my 1M? no. not even slightest...

Nurburgring lap times are THE laziest criteria for assessing a car....it's for people who don't actually drive these cars...it's for people who just read about cars.

It's fine to know for reference; but in deciding what car to buy based on its Nurburgring lap time is like buying a cake based on how much time it took to make rather than how it tastes.

EVEN if this was being purchased as a 'track day toy'.....is the purpose of a track day to have the fastest car or have the car that is MOST ENJOYABLE? Does a lap time tell you how enjoyable a car is to drive? No it does not unless you are the type you only assesses data rather than emotion.

Last edited by IEDEI; 10-21-2015 at 12:52 PM..
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      10-21-2015, 12:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummm2 View Post
I'm not trying to start anything, but please tell what means shit then? Overall power to weight? Weight balance? Steering feel? Suspension setup? Aero? Tires? Transmission? Stopping power? Blah blah

All these things are what produces a ring time. A ring time is arguably flawed but its a simple way to access the sum of all the parts in terms of a car's competance. Especially for sport orientated vehicles.

Is shouldnt be the sole criteria for car ownership but to say only simpletons pay attention to it is a bit silly.

Looking at ring times for a dodge caravan is idiotic. Looking at ring times for a M2 is not.

I can argue the M4 GTS was designed soley around trying to achieve a good ring time. And why do people like it? Becuase it usually takes a badass car to put up a time like that.

Btw, i would never consider a type R over a m2.
Put in simpler terms, if you were blindfolded and you could only know 1 specific data point for your next car, and nothing else, what would a non-simpleton choose instead of a lap time?
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      10-21-2015, 12:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummm2 View Post
Put in simpler terms, if you were blindfolded and you could only know 1 specific data point for your next car, and nothing else, what would a non-simpleton choose instead of a lap time?
I mean, that would depend entirely about what your priorities are.

If you were interested in a track car, or had a primary focus on performance, a lap time would arguably be the best indicator.

But sure, I don't disagree that for your average buyer, it's a pretty useless thing to be concerned about. A mere tool for dickswinging on the internet.

But again, one size doesn't fit all. So one could just as easily call you a simpleton for not recognizing that performance might be the number 1 criteria (outside of price, or course).

I mean, a data point can't characterize what makes a great driver's car (handling/steering feel, chassis balance, etc.)...so that's out the window. It would be nice to be able to have a data point which ranks the likes of a Miata, RX7/8, Elise/Exige, Cayman, etc. near the top, and something like an M4, GTR or other appliance of speed notably lower. But alas, none exists.
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      10-21-2015, 12:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I mean, that would depend entirely about what your priorities are.

If you were interested in a track car, or had a primary focus on performance, a lap time would arguably be the best indicator.

But sure, I don't disagree that for your average buyer, it's a pretty useless thing to be concerned about. A mere tool for dickswinging on the internet.

But again, one size doesn't fit all. So one could just as easily call you a simpleton for not recognizing that performance might be the number 1 criteria (outside of price, or course).

I mean, a data point can't characterize what makes a great driver's car (handling/steering feel, chassis balance, etc.)...so that's out the window. It would be nice to be able to have a data point which ranks the likes of a Miata, RX7/8, Elise/Exige, Cayman, etc. near the top, and something like an M4, GTR or other appliance of speed notably lower. But alas, none exists.
You get the point, cmon. This is an M forum. As stated earlier, it wouldn't make sense if you were shopping for a minivan.
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      10-21-2015, 12:53 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=PrematureApex;18782787]I mean, that would depend entirely about what your priorities are.

If you were interested in a track car, or had a primary focus on performance, a lap time would arguably be the best indicator.

But sure, I don't disagree that for your average buyer, it's a pretty useless thing to be concerned about. A mere tool for dickswinging on the internet.

But again, one size doesn't fit all. So one could just as easily call you a simpleton for not recognizing that performance might be the number 1 criteria (outside of price, or course).

I mean, a data point can't characterize what makes a great driver's car (handling/steering feel, chassis balance, etc.)...so that's out the window. It would be nice to be able to have a data point which ranks the likes of a Miata, RX7/8, Elise/Exige, Cayman, etc. near the top, and something like an M4, GTR or other appliance of speed notably lower. But alas, none exists.[/QUOTill

And no, there's no "great drivers car" data point. That's my point. Lap time still the best for performance orientated car.
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      10-22-2015, 08:51 AM   #15
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"Ringtimes don't matter"

That's cute.
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      10-22-2015, 08:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangover View Post
"Ringtimes don't matter"

That's cute.

Last edited by OG///M; 10-22-2015 at 09:14 AM..
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      10-22-2015, 11:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangover View Post
"Ringtimes don't matter"

That's cute.
Your other comment in another thread I just read:

"M235i >>>>>>> M2"

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Last edited by Adem1534; 10-22-2015 at 11:42 AM..
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      10-22-2015, 05:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Your other comment in another thread I just read:

"M235i >>>>>>> M2"

I was doing some post stalking and noticed how this clown was talking about how his 135i was the best car ever and that American cars were junk and had nothing on it. He must have gotten his BMW repo'd or something and just can't stand the fact that there is the great M2 that will be forever unattainable for him.

Yes, the M2 is not perfect but it's going to be an awesome car...Ole boy is just jealous. I think it's hilarious.
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      10-22-2015, 08:43 PM   #19
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The vs section in any of the forums here is prime trolling real estate. You just need to be thick skinned and realize personal agendas, whatever they may be, are the primary focus of these posts/threads. The more you engage in back and forth banter with these jive turkeys, the more frustrated you become. Use the ignore option to your advantage.
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      10-23-2015, 08:25 AM   #20
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Not sure I sit on either side of this fence but I really don't understand why anyone would dis one type of comparison over another...

0-60mph
1/4 mile
ring time
etc

These are all just indicators used for comparison purposes. The only reason I can see that anyone would rag on one over others is that it doesn't show their car in the best light so they rubbish that particular result?
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      10-25-2015, 04:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDKevin
Not sure I sit on either side of this fence but I really don't understand why anyone would dis one type of comparison over another...

0-60mph
1/4 mile
ring time
etc

These are all just indicators used for comparison purposes. The only reason I can see that anyone would rag on one over others is that it doesn't show their car in the best light so they rubbish that particular result?
Is it because these are all measurable 'metrics' and it's much much easier to say....

I drive THE best handling car around, it's so nice to drive and believe me everybody, I've driven a lot of cars.

Seeing a bit of this on the M2 board currently.
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      10-25-2015, 05:34 AM   #22
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I was thinking about this the other day.. Type R does 7:50 and the m2 is slower!? Then the mind goes to thinking.. Ok.. Weight savings for the m2 ...

Be great if someone can pull the tested specs out and see what's up.

And I think imma put a bumper sticker on my Honda Fit that says "the ring time doesn't matter" great idea! Thx.
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