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      07-18-2015, 03:08 PM   #1
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Crown Jewel vs The 1 to Own...

Is there a difference between the crown jewel vs the one to own? Maybe, maybe not..

Of course I'm talking about the M2 relative to the mighty M3/M4...It might very well vary based on individual driver needs and financial abilities.

From a BMW perspective..

1). The M3/M4 will remain the "crown jewel" of the M line-up as far as performance, sophistication and technology....Personal opinion of course, but I can't ever crown M5 as the jewel of the M line..

2). Consideration: Will they trade a significant # of M3/M4 buyers down to M2?

3). Consideration: Do they care if profit per vehicle is better or as good?

4).Will the M2 play a role in the M line-up that transcends a starting point to get more and younger owners into M cars?

What are your thoughts on the role of M2 for BMW?

Frankly I'm anticipating all the car rags to proclaim the M2 as the "one M to own" as the M3/M4 have grown in size and almost too much usable power outside of the track. That would describe me to a "T"...I could have purchased an F8x M3/M4 but couldn't fall in love with it.

And yes, I'm a former M3 owner of e46 and e92 vintage. I would have had sex with my S65 if I could have figured out how to do it.

Personally, I can't wait to see this new M...Already very high on my radar when my M235xi lease is up...

Lastly, I apologize if this has been beaten to death already...Feel free to ignore this thread if this is old news..
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      07-18-2015, 03:32 PM   #2
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I agree, the M2 will be the M car to buy, own, love and keep like PYRAT 1 I guess. M3/4 is faster, more techno advanced and luxurious, the more so up the range, M5/6X5M etc.

Looking forward to seeing the car in a month.
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      07-18-2015, 03:45 PM   #3
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I believe the M5 will always be superior in technological terms being the flagship M car. Especially with the new generation in development. It will always have more a more exotic drivetrain and will go hybrid long before the M3/4 does. That doesn't mean its more fit to track purpose of course.

Some M3/4 owners will no doubt switch, but i really can't see them doing it in great numbers. People who buy the M3/4 do so because they want that car for its space/practicality, materials, motorsport engine, power and looks which are either greater or different to what the M2 will offer.

The benefit of the M cars are they are a double edged sword: highly profitable compared to the "lesser" models and also the ones that spark and keep brand interest high. The M2 more so. The development costs for the suspension have more or less already been absorbed by the M3/4 (shared components) and a lot of it will be run of the mill 2 series, with some modifications of course. Out of the 2 line up it'll more than likely have the highest profit margin for them as a result, especially with the option package price structure that few will leave untouched.
The new entry point is specifically designed to get younger customers hooked on the brand, more than likely with aspirations to move up the M line as time progresses. Probably even running two or more BMWs in the household. At least that'll be what BMW want.

I think the M235i has too much power to fully unleash on the street let alone the M3/4. The 228 probably ticks that box too. Its about how quick a car is rather than its top speed. Any car can break the speed limit, its just the potential of getting into trouble in a short space of time/ stretch of road in these cars. You won't be able to run around WOT in the M2 for very long on public roads (or the track for that matter) before you can get into bother.
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      07-18-2015, 04:21 PM   #4
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Midwest, you apparently have never driven the M5...
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      07-18-2015, 04:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Midwest, you apparently have never driven the M5...
I have ...

Not a fan of F'10 is all...Not my flavor for sure...Color me e39 all day though...maybe even e60...Loved my e60 550
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      07-18-2015, 06:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Midwest, you apparently have never driven the M5...
I have driven several. Of all the BMW ///Ms you have had, which motor do you like the most?.
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      07-18-2015, 07:20 PM   #7
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S62 in the e39 M5. Torque waterfall.
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      07-18-2015, 08:09 PM   #8
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I prefer the M2. Lower power for better balance and agility if it's become the way I think it will.

If only the M3 is AWD it would be the "car" to get. The M3 is very well rounded. Just need a few inches higher and awd due to the increase in torque/hp.
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      07-19-2015, 10:41 AM   #9
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I am really looking forward to the M2. Whenever M Division unveils a new model, it usually redefines the segment. It may be developed from the parts bin, but you can be assured those parts will have been tweaked. I'm #2 on my local list. Can't wait...
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      07-19-2015, 11:17 AM   #10
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It would be a travesty if the M3 ever goes awd. Sorry but it sucks. Yeah great for traction in rain and other weather situations but is just flat boring. What's the fun of not being able to slide? Every awd car I've ever driven just under steers like a pig when pushed hard and the very few you can make drift require such high speed and aggressive flicks that you absolutely cannot do it on the street. One of my fav parts of rain is giving it a little extra squeeze on the throttle and letting the car just barely slide out and play.
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      07-19-2015, 11:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
I am really looking forward to the M2. Whenever M Division unveils a new model, it usually redefines the segment. It may be developed from the parts bin, but you can be assured those parts will have been tweaked. I'm #2 on my local list. Can't wait...
Just sent you a PM. Looking at your list of cars, I definitely wouldn't mind your opinion on something.
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      07-19-2015, 12:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
I am really looking forward to the M2. Whenever M Division unveils a new model, it usually redefines the segment. It may be developed from the parts bin, but you can be assured those parts will have been tweaked. I'm #2 on my local list. Can't wait...
So does that mean no Z06 for you?

Frankly between the two, I would rather have the M2. The Z06 is just too much car to me, street or track, based on my impressions of driving my dads 2009 Z51/6MT Corvette. That thing has "only" 430 hp, but damn that car flies. To me, managing 650 horsepower doesn't seem like a lot of fun because it really just is all about the massive power and speed, rather than the total balance of the car.

I think a car like the M2 , or a Cayman GTS (or GT4 ) just nails that balance of power and chassis.
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      07-19-2015, 12:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by StealYourFace View Post
So does that mean no Z06 for you?

Frankly between the two, I would rather have the M2. The Z06 is just too much car to me, street or track, based on my impressions of driving my dads 2009 Z51/6MT Corvette. That thing has "only" 430 hp, but damn that car flies. To me, managing 650 horsepower doesn't seem like a lot of fun because it really just is all about the massive power and speed, rather than the total balance of the car.

I think a car like the M2 , or a Cayman GTS (or GT4 ) just nails that balance of power and chassis.
Personally, I have 0 interest in a Z06 (even though I have much respect for it). Way too much car. Hell I already think the S55 is almost too much for me for the streets, thus why I have no problem with the M2's 370hp or whatever it'll get.

I'd so much rather have a GT4 than anything else in that price, Z06 included.
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      07-19-2015, 03:29 PM   #14
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Yeah, I've changed my mind about the Z06. I had a chance to drive a pre-production version on the road and was seriously impressed. Then got a chance to drive one on the track earlier this month and was polarized. Incredible power, massive grip, fantastic brakes. But it wasn't FUN. You hit the nail on the head about it not being balanced.
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      07-20-2015, 04:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Yeah, I've changed my mind about the Z06. I had a chance to drive a pre-production version on the road and was seriously impressed. Then got a chance to drive one on the track earlier this month and was polarized. Incredible power, massive grip, fantastic brakes. But it wasn't FUN. You hit the nail on the head about it not being balanced.
ha! So... how does this change from any other Z06 previously made... ?
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      07-21-2015, 09:19 PM   #16
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I agree. I have followed the M3s for a while as being the class of their kind. I love them, but I have also seen it grow with the 3 series to the point that it is a "big car" for lack of sophisticated words. The M2 (or even the M235i) is backing down the the size of the car. I love it. M3 performance from a smaller car....that is what i have been waiting for.
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      07-21-2015, 09:25 PM   #17
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agree....I live in Toronto with a fair bit of snow...my 328i does a fine job in the snow...no need for 4wd
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      07-21-2015, 09:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKevM5 View Post
Yeah, I've changed my mind about the Z06. I had a chance to drive a pre-production version on the road and was seriously impressed. Then got a chance to drive one on the track earlier this month and was polarized. Incredible power, massive grip, fantastic brakes. But it wasn't FUN. You hit the nail on the head about it not being balanced.
I'm curious as to what you mean. You say you liked the vette on the road but when driven on the track it felt unbalanced. The Z06 destroys any BMW on the track and daily driver balance isn't what you need in that situation. I would think the issue with a Z06 would be in daily driver duties on the road...or am I reading this wrong. For what it's worth, I am not considering a vette nor have I in the past. Just curious.
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      07-22-2015, 08:47 PM   #19
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I am referring to the joy factor of driving a car aggressively on a race track. Just because a car is faster than another does not make that a satisfying experience. Two examples: a Dodge Viper is an extremely capable vehicle on the track, but for me it is the most uncomfortable car I have ever driven aggressively. Poor sight lines, incredible tranny tunnel heat, overly heavy steering, jerky throttle. It's fast, but it's a fight getting there. In contrast, a Mazda Miata, properly set up, will not be the fastest car on the track, but it is an absolute delight to drive. Small, light, wonderfully tossable. That is what defines a great drive to me, not who's the fastest. I don't care how fast a M4 is. It has evolved into an overweight lump. Give me a smaller, lighter, more tossable car and for me, it's a better package.
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      07-22-2015, 10:20 PM   #20
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I'm hoping the M2 will be a very special car for a select group of M enthusiasts. By select, I don't mean "can spend the most money." I mean those who want a modern M car, turbos and all, that stays true to some of the "old" M philosophy. None of us want M to go bankrupt because they stay "hardcore/old-school" and the few of us who buy the things can't keep the division in business. I do think there is room for a car like this. The 1M was the test car for a more ambitious program in this regard - thank god it was a huge success. I'm sure there will be those buying the M2 because it may be (at least by MSRP) the least expensive M car. But I'm hoping that most of us are buying it because it is the car we want.

But, I have to say, I'm not too worried about it. I have the M cars that, for me, define the brand as I know it (not that there aren't many other great M cars - my personal preferences are just that and no more). The M2 (or M3) will be a part time DD that I may keep long term, or I may not. Truth be told, I"m looking for that "loose relationship" with a car, ha ha.
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