Definitive YOUR 1st hand Tracking Set Up, and Experience

[drsrock]

I read many threads on this. A lot of good 2nd hand information, some 1st hand experiences with incomplete set ups - ie works in progress, but no definitive conclusions on tested track set ups. So I would like to know YOUR TESTED track

1. Wheel sizes
2. Offsets
3. Spacers
4. Camber
5. Tire manufacturers
6. Tire sizes
7. Suspensions
8. Brakes
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer
10. Tire pressure
11. ....

In addition I would like to know driver track experience to gauge the set up to driving skill.

Please post YOUR set up as complete as possible, and YOUR racing/driving experience, track, track conditions, your run group..... I think a simple uncluttered list, amount of time on track with that set up, and your on track review would serve all of us looking at options best.

Thanks for your input.

[CanAutM3]

1. Wheel sizes: Apex EC 18"x10" (OEM 19" for wet setup)
2. Offsets: ET25 (OEM for wet setup)
3. Spacers: None
4. Camber: Stock F/R (waiting for GC camber plates)
5. Tire manufacturers: Nitto NT01 (OEM PSS wet setup)
6. Tire sizes: 275/35R18 (255-275/35R19 wet setup)
7. Suspensions: Stock EDC
8. Brakes: Stock irons / OEM fluid
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer: Pagid RS29
10. Tire pressure: 39psi hot

Experience: 21 years
Run group: Instructor
Track days with those setups: 3 dry / 3 wet

My goal is to run the car as stock as possible (as I did with my E46 and E92). Car needs more camber up front to balance wear, probably less so than the E46 and E9X did. I am guessing in the -1.5 to -2.0 depending on tires used. I am waiting for the GC camber plates to be released, I do not like the fact that the TCK are incremental adjustment only. I was running a used set of NT01 left over from my E92 and the rears were pretty worn down; definitely felt rear grip lacking in my last sessions. Looking forward to new tires to see if a square setup works on this car of if more rear tires are needed. Iron brakes are solid with no fade. I do find that the RS29 lack in initial bite compared to the PF08 I used to run on my E92, they however don't show much wear after 3 track days.

[gthal]

1. Wheel sizes: OEM
2. Offsets: OEM
3. Spacers: None
4. Wheel diameters: OEM
5. Tire manufacturers: OEM to date, Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 coming
6. Tire sizes: 255/35R19 (f) and 285/35-19 (r)
7. Suspensions: Passive
8. Brakes: Stock irons
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer: Carbotech XP12/10
10. Brake fluid - Castrol SRF
11. Tire pressure: 38psi hot

Experience: 8 years, 6 to 12 days/year
Run group: Red group (experienced) and starting the instructor program this year
Track days with those setups: 2 dry

Car runs well with minimal changes but needs more camber and tire grip. Decided to go with RE-11 this year as an interim step before getting a dedicated track set of wheels/tires. Waiting on ZCP to replace my current car and will then invest in wheels, camber plates, etc. and get it dialed in properly then.

[PriZeFighter13]

1. Wheel sizes: Apex EC 18"x10"
2. Offsets: ET33
3. Spacers: 10mm F only
4. Wheel diameters: 18"
5. Tire manufacturers: Dunlop ZII (Going to Nitto NT-01 or Hoosier R7 next)
6. Tire sizes: 275/35/R18
7. Suspensions: Stock EDC
8. Brakes: Stock irons
9. Pads: Stock
10. Tire pressure: 38psi F 36 psi R HOT

Experience: 5 years
Run group: Instructor/TT3
Track days with those setups: 5 events

Car runs well, but need front camber and better pads. Stiffer front springs to reduce the suspension travel would be good, under hard braking the rear feels very light.

[Gearhead999s]

1. Wheel sizes Stock 19's 19x10 & 19x11 on order
2. Offsets on order 25P 37P
3. Spacers None
4. Camber Whatever it came with from the factory!
5. Tire manufacturers Yokohoma AD08R
6. Tire sizes 275/30 19 295/30 19
7. Suspensions Stock Adaptive
8. Brakes Stock Steel
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer Pagid RS29
10. Tire pressure 38 hot

Experience: 40 years
Run group: Instructor or race group
Track days with those setups: 2 dry but cold days.

[drsrock]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

1. Wheel sizes: Apex EC 18"x10" (OEM 19" for wet setup)
2. Offsets: ET25 (OEM for wet setup)
3. Spacers: None
4. Wheel diameters: 18" (redundant question)
5. Tire manufacturers: Nitto NT01 (OEM PSS wet setup)
6. Tire sizes: 275/35R18 (255-275/35R19 wet setup)
7. Suspensions: Stock EDC
8. Brakes: Stock irons / OEM fluid
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer: Pagid RS29
10. Tire pressure: 39psi hot

Experience: 21 years
Run group: Instructor
Track days with those setups: 3 dry / 3 wet

Just to be clear, my goal is to run the car as stock as possible (as I did with my E46 and E92). Car needs more camber up front to balance wear, probably less so than the E46 and E9X did. I am guessing in the -1.5 to -2.0 depending on tires used. I am waiting for the GC camber plates to be released, I do not like the fact that the TCK are incremental adjustment only. I was running a used set of NT01 left over from my E92 and the rears were pretty worn down; definitely felt rear grip lacking in my last sessions. Looking forward to new tires to see if square setup work on this car of more rear tires are needed. Iron brakes are solid with no fade. I do find that the RS29 lack in initial bite compared to the PF08 I used to run on my E92, they however don't show much wear after 3 track days.

#4 redundant. Noted. Removed! Replaced with Camber

Thanks

[MaynardZed]

1. Apex EC-7 19x9.5 ET22, 19x10 ET25
3. no spacers
4. stock EDC suspension: camber -1.2 front, -1.3 rear, had the toe adjusted for track to 0 front, 5/16 toe-in rear before dealership so kindly returned it back to stock without asking me first.
Update 6/20/15: Latest toe settings for track use was 1/16 total toe out for front, 3/8 total toe in for rear. was awesome on the track (quicker turn in, rear not as squiggly). Front toe out not great for street driving though.
5. Toyo R888 265/35/19 F, 295/30/19 R
7. Stock EDC (M-adaptive)*
8. Carbotech XP12 F XP10 R, SS lines, SRF fluid
10. 34 psi hot
11. 2.5 years track experience (30 track days roughly), advanced DE, time trials (2014 HL2 champion w/ my E36). 7 track days with my M4*
12. Dinan tune


*Last few track days with the M4 have been cut short due to EDC malfunctions. Latest fix was to replace my right front strut which has seemed to work.

[MasterC17]

1. Wheel sizes: OEM 19"
2. Offsets: OEM 19"
3. Spacers: 20mm Front/5mm Rear
4. Wheel diameters: OEM 19"
5. Tire manufacturers: Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
6. Tire sizes: 275/30R19 (f) and 295/30-19 (r)
7. Suspensions: Adaptive w/ KW HAS
8. Brakes: Stock irons
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer: Carbotech XP10 (Need XP12 in front!!!)
10. Brake fluid - Castrol SRF
11. Tire pressure: 36psi hot

Experience: 4 years, 6 to 12 days/year
Run group: Red group (experienced)
Track days with those setups: 2 Dry

Absolutely love it, would also like to mention I have a JB4. Blows away E9X and most other cars. Need to get a set of legit coilovers and replace the front XP10's with XP12's. Will throw a set of APEX's with R-Comp's on at some point as well. At that point the car is faster than most full race-car's. This chassis' capability is far beyond that of any M car prior, people just need to exploit it.

[S65V8]

If I'm not mistaken, your APEX EC18x10 ET 25s were the wheels you just used from the E92 square set-up, is that correct? I was hoping to do the exact same thing.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

1. Wheel sizes: Apex EC 18"x10" (OEM 19" for wet setup)
2. Offsets: ET25 (OEM for wet setup)
3. Spacers: None
4. Camber: Stock F/R (waiting for GC camber plates)
5. Tire manufacturers: Nitto NT01 (OEM PSS wet setup)
6. Tire sizes: 275/35R18 (255-275/35R19 wet setup)
7. Suspensions: Stock EDC
8. Brakes: Stock irons / OEM fluid
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer: Pagid RS29
10. Tire pressure: 39psi hot

Experience: 21 years
Run group: Instructor
Track days with those setups: 3 dry / 3 wet

My goal is to run the car as stock as possible (as I did with my E46 and E92). Car needs more camber up front to balance wear, probably less so than the E46 and E9X did. I am guessing in the -1.5 to -2.0 depending on tires used. I am waiting for the GC camber plates to be released, I do not like the fact that the TCK are incremental adjustment only. I was running a used set of NT01 left over from my E92 and the rears were pretty worn down; definitely felt rear grip lacking in my last sessions. Looking forward to new tires to see if a square setup works on this car of if more rear tires are needed. Iron brakes are solid with no fade. I do find that the RS29 lack in initial bite compared to the PF08 I used to run on my E92, they however don't show much wear after 3 track days.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

1. Wheel sizes Stock 19's 19x10 & 19x11 on order
2. Offsets on order 25P 37P
3. Spacers None
4. Camber Whatever it came with from the factory!
5. Tire manufacturers Yokohoma AD08R
6. Tire sizes 275/30 19 295/30 19
7. Suspensions Stock Adaptive
8. Brakes Stock Steel
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer Pagid RS29
10. Tire pressure 38 hot

Experience: 40 years
Run group: Instructor or race group
Track days with those setups: 2 dry but cold days.

Time to update after 6 total days out and 2 days at the Glen.

The only change is that I now running Pagid RSL's up front with very good results with no uneven Pad deposits and very strong braking.Due to Pad backorders I ran with RS29's on the rear that were worn well past where I normally change them out.As result of this I could only get about 5 laps at speed before the braking would go away.
AT WGI the car is amazingly stable in the 4th & 5 gear corners with being very neutral with good turn in.I was able to run 2.14's with no drama with a 200+ lb passenger onboard so it is quite a bit faster than my E92 M3 was which also did 2.14's but with pretty hairy moments and solo.There were a lot of cars in our group that were sub 2.10's so I felt like I was slow
I have never seen the oil temp go past 105C even on a 28c day so that continues to impress and I am still waiting for my proper track wheels.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SROC5

If I'm not mistaken, your APEX EC18x10 ET 25s were the wheels you just used from the E92 square set-up, is that correct? I was hoping to do the exact same thing.

No, I bought the EC-7 specifically for the M4. On my E92, I used to run Enkei NT03+ in the exact same 18"x10"ET25 size. Those wheels were great, very light and strong. Sadly, they would not fit over the front calipers. So I sold them and got the EC-7. I did not order tires on time, so I just took the set that was on the Enkei and installed them on the Apex.

[stranger]

Subbed

[heckyeahbro69]

1. Wheel sizes 18x10+33
2. Offsets
3. Spacers 10mm spacer in front
4. Camber 3 fr 2 re
5. Tire manufacturers nitto nt01
6. Tire sizes 275 35
7. Suspensions pss10 damping at 8 for sebring, will try stiffer at a smoother track
8. Brakes stock calipers
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer carbotech xp10 and motul fluid
10. Tire pressure 30cold

4.5 years track experience. Try to go every other month. Been to 5 events with my m4, tracked an evo 10 previously.
The car was an absolute dream to drive, very balanced, body roll was nearly eliminated, I wanted to just keep driving it. From stock to now, its a totally different feeling car.

[FLOSS M]

Would Apex EC-7 18x10 et 25 square 275 35 18 fit ok on an M4?

[JMon]

Keep it coming... Any more folks with examples?
This also may shed some light on something I originally only suspected. "Those that actually track their cars often, hard and have experience tense to stick with the steel rotors."

[IND-Distribution]

Originally Posted by drsrock

1. Wheel sizes
2. Offsets
3. Spacers
4. Camber
5. Tire manufacturers
6. Tire sizes
7. Suspensions
8. Brakes
9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer
10. Tire pressure

Fantastic thread! I love when the BimmerPost community can come together to create a knowledge base. My entry is below. More details about our setup specifically can be found in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1151642

1. Wheel sizes
BBS FI-R
19x9.5 +22
19x10.5 +35

2. Offsets
Above

3. Spacers
No spacers

4. Camber
-2.9 front, -2.0 rear

5. Tire manufacturers
Yokohama Advan AD08R

6. Tire sizes
275/30/19 front
295/30/19 rear

7. Suspensions
JRZ RS Two dampers
Fall Line front monoball conversion kit

8. Brakes
Brembo GT kit
Brembo HTC 64 fluid

9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer
RT RE10 pads

10. Tire pressure
27psi cold ~ 35psi hot

11. Alignment

Front:
Camber: -2.9 degrees

Toe: -.6mm (toe out)


Rear:
Camber: -2 degrees

Toe: 1.5mm (toe in)



Additional notes:

Suspension:
The M4, like any street car, is set up to understeer from the factory. A fast driver can overheat the front tires, and must be mindful to not overdrive the car at the tail end of a 20+ minute session. This setup is good for a beginner to intermediate driver, but a more advanced driver may prefer a more neutral car, depending on driving style.

The car is balanced from a spring rate standpoint (with the spring rates we have), and my opinion is that most of the (very mild) understeer that we did experience can be tuned out by simply adjusting tire pressure to taste. This will of course depend on driving style, track conditions, which course the car is at, and so on.

The JRZ dampers are incredibly compliant, and yield a car that is literally nearly impossible to upset with road irregularities. The dampers (when valved to Fall Line spec) are excellently valved and constructed, and generate enormous mechanical grip.

Some drivers may elect to install slightly higher rate springs then what comes with the kit, depending on the course they’re driving. The spring rates provided with the kit as standard (in JRZ/Fall Line spec) are phenomenally comfortable for street driving, and are ideal for a road course with bumps and irregularities. Beginner and intermediate drivers should use the as-provided rates, while more advanced drivers may go higher in spring rate on a smooth road course.

Based on the tire temperatures I took at the track (posted below), the camber settings we are using are healthy for these tires, this spring rate, and this car. Our tire temps suggest a potentially less than ideal cross weight, which will be checked next time the car is aligned.

The FI-R wheels have of course proven their mettle, and have once again shown that BBS Motorsport is second to none. Their incredibly low weight contributes to an overall low unsprung mass. The wheels themselves have not shown signs of wear or bending after three separate track outings, and I expect that they will last for many years to come, even with heavy use.


Brakes:
According to our rotor paint, the brake disc surface temperatures are reaching 630 degrees Celsius (1,166 F) and higher, which is hot. This speaks to the increased brake demand of the M4 that has been rumored in BMW Motorsport circles. The M4 can generate a fantastic amount of mechanical grip (especially with sports tires like our AD08R installed), is very well balanced under braking, and the ABS system is particularly well designed for track use. These factors combine to create a car that generates enormous temperatures under braking, when piloted by a fast driver. We and the folks at Brembo expect that the temperatures would be even hotter with OE calipers and discs, which are not as well suited to dissipating these temperatures.

The paint inside the disc vanes has not yet completely flashed, which suggests that the vane is operating under 630 degrees. Based on the flashing of the green and red paint on the outside of the disc, we expect that the vanes are operating somewhere in the 550 degree Celsius range.

The pads are operating at a moderate to high temperature, which is expected for heavy track use with a fast driver. The RE10 pad is very stable at elevated temperatures, offering high bite and stable performance. We are confident that lesser friction materials not suitable for professional racing use would not work consistently at elevated temperatures.

Of course, any brake system is made whole when brake ducting is installed. We expect that as M3/M4 owners become more serious about driving their cars at road courses, they will want to install proper brake ducting to cool the front discs. At that point, we will look to develop a bolt-in kit.

[drsrock]

So the season here in the East just about to finish up.
I am looking for updates. Best Camber plates, and alignment set up. Wheel manufacturer, and wheel specs.

I am looking for 18" square set up with max patch.

[m3less]

Great thread!

[drsrock]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

Fantastic thread! I love when the BimmerPost community can come together to create a knowledge base. My entry is below. More details about our setup specifically can be found in this thread:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1151642

1. Wheel sizes
BBS FI-R
19x9.5 +22
19x10.5 +35

2. Offsets
Above

3. Spacers
No spacers

4. Camber
-2.9 front, -2.0 rear

5. Tire manufacturers
Yokohama Advan AD08R

6. Tire sizes
275/30/19 front
295/30/19 rear

7. Suspensions
JRZ RS Two dampers
Fall Line front monoball conversion kit

8. Brakes
Brembo GT kit
Brembo HTC 64 fluid

9. Pads - compounds/manufacturer
RT RE10 pads

10. Tire pressure
27psi cold ~ 35psi hot

11. Alignment

Front:
Camber: -2.9 degrees

Toe: -.6mm (toe out)


Rear:
Camber: -2 degrees

Toe: 1.5mm (toe in)



Additional notes:

Suspension:
The M4, like any street car, is set up to understeer from the factory. A fast driver can overheat the front tires, and must be mindful to not overdrive the car at the tail end of a 20+ minute session. This setup is good for a beginner to intermediate driver, but a more advanced driver may prefer a more neutral car, depending on driving style.

The car is balanced from a spring rate standpoint (with the spring rates we have), and my opinion is that most of the (very mild) understeer that we did experience can be tuned out by simply adjusting tire pressure to taste. This will of course depend on driving style, track conditions, which course the car is at, and so on.

The JRZ dampers are incredibly compliant, and yield a car that is literally nearly impossible to upset with road irregularities. The dampers (when valved to Fall Line spec) are excellently valved and constructed, and generate enormous mechanical grip.

Some drivers may elect to install slightly higher rate springs then what comes with the kit, depending on the course they’re driving. The spring rates provided with the kit as standard (in JRZ/Fall Line spec) are phenomenally comfortable for street driving, and are ideal for a road course with bumps and irregularities. Beginner and intermediate drivers should use the as-provided rates, while more advanced drivers may go higher in spring rate on a smooth road course.

Based on the tire temperatures I took at the track (posted below), the camber settings we are using are healthy for these tires, this spring rate, and this car. Our tire temps suggest a potentially less than ideal cross weight, which will be checked next time the car is aligned.

The FI-R wheels have of course proven their mettle, and have once again shown that BBS Motorsport is second to none. Their incredibly low weight contributes to an overall low unsprung mass. The wheels themselves have not shown signs of wear or bending after three separate track outings, and I expect that they will last for many years to come, even with heavy use.


Brakes:
According to our rotor paint, the brake disc surface temperatures are reaching 630 degrees Celsius (1,166 F) and higher, which is hot. This speaks to the increased brake demand of the M4 that has been rumored in BMW Motorsport circles. The M4 can generate a fantastic amount of mechanical grip (especially with sports tires like our AD08R installed), is very well balanced under braking, and the ABS system is particularly well designed for track use. These factors combine to create a car that generates enormous temperatures under braking, when piloted by a fast driver. We and the folks at Brembo expect that the temperatures would be even hotter with OE calipers and discs, which are not as well suited to dissipating these temperatures.

The paint inside the disc vanes has not yet completely flashed, which suggests that the vane is operating under 630 degrees. Based on the flashing of the green and red paint on the outside of the disc, we expect that the vanes are operating somewhere in the 550 degree Celsius range.

The pads are operating at a moderate to high temperature, which is expected for heavy track use with a fast driver. The RE10 pad is very stable at elevated temperatures, offering high bite and stable performance. We are confident that lesser friction materials not suitable for professional racing use would not work consistently at elevated temperatures.

Of course, any brake system is made whole when brake ducting is installed. We expect that as M3/M4 owners become more serious about driving their cars at road courses, they will want to install proper brake ducting to cool the front discs. At that point, we will look to develop a bolt-in kit.

This is an excellent post, tanks

[smh_amg_m4gts]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

1. Apex EC-7 19x9.5 ET22, 19x10 ET25
3. no spacers
4. stock EDC suspension: camber -1.2 front, -1.3 rear, had the toe adjusted for track to 0 front, 5/16 toe-in rear before dealership so kindly returned it back to stock without asking me first.
Update 6/20/15: Latest toe settings for track use was 1/16 total toe out for front, 3/8 total toe in for rear. was awesome on the track (quicker turn in, rear not as squiggly). Front toe out not great for street driving though.
5. Toyo R888 265/35/19 F, 295/30/19 R
7. Stock EDC (M-adaptive)*
8. Carbotech XP12 F XP10 R, SS lines, SRF fluid
10. 34 psi hot
11. 2.5 years track experience (30 track days roughly), advanced DE, time trials (2014 HL2 champion w/ my E36). 7 track days with my M4*
12. Dinan tune


*Last few track days with the M4 have been cut short due to EDC malfunctions. Latest fix was to replace my right front strut which has seemed to work.

I'm thinking of running the same wheel setup. Any photos? Without camber.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by stunnaM3

I'm thinking of running the same wheel setup. Any photos? Without camber.

Here you go. I have no camber plates.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1077037

[IrvineTim]

Yes, that will work according to what apex told me when I asked about your application.
you can call apex and they can tell you what rims will work and what size tires will work for your M4, i did.
i am running apex 18x9.5 et22 EC-7, 275/35/18 hankook rs3 square set up. have not tracked this set up yet, going at the end of january, waiting to see if my M4 gets recalled, before I track it.

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

Would Apex EC-7 18x10 et 25 square 275 35 18 fit ok on an M4?