Advanced Driving Instructor drives my M4 at AMP

[MaynardZed]

Went to Arizona Motorsports Park yesterday with the M4 for a track day with ProAutoSports.

http://www.proautosports.com/
http://arizonamotorsportspark.com/

Car setup:
BMW M4 6MT, Dinan Tune
Suspension: Stock M-Adaptive
Tires: Toyo R888 265/30/19, 295/30/19
Brakes: Steels, Carbotech XP12 (blue?) front, XP10 rear, SRF, SS lines
AMB transponder (rental)

First session of the morning. Me driving, taking it easy, getting reacquainted with the track. Getting tires pressures dialed in. Many spin outs/offs by other participants driving over their head. Porsche on fire, cuts session just a bit short. Never understood why guys drive so aggressively in the first session of the day? Five laps completed, best lap time: 1:59.125

Second session of the day met up with Leroy Moore for a ride along. He's my race mechanic and advanced driving instructor. He lives, eats, and breathes this stuff for over 20 years. Holds several local track records in many different types of cars. He's one of those guys that can jump into any car and put down much faster lap times than you can. Even experienced guys will have him drive their car to lay down a benchmark time so that you have something to shoot for.

http://602flatout.com/ (He's cut back his shop workload, so don't contact him for daily driver work. He still takes on race car work if its not urgent / time sensitive)

After getting situated in the car and getting settings how he wanted (DSC fully off obviously, Sport Plus throttle and suspension, Sport steering) we grid up and head out on the track. After a "warm-up" lap you could tell I was in for a wild ride. Biggest difference when driving with someone this advanced is how comfortable they are with the car sliding and drifting. He's putting the power down much earlier than I could. He's basically drifting out of every turn and able to get the car to “catch” perfectly at the exit. He's laughing as he shot an exit cone 30 yards off the track.

The following are Leroy's (paraphrased) comments of my M4:

"Brakes are absolutely amazing! Not using anywhere near the full braking ability. No fade, great bite and pedal feel during whole 20 minute session. He mentioned that he’s probably not as hard on brakes as I would be and that he does a lot of “scrub braking” which I surmise from the session is using the car's tires to help reduce speed by throwing into turns “sideways”? Tires felt great the whole session too."

"Very composed and balanced. A bit lazy on turn in, have to get ahead of the car, turn in a tad earlier. Probably a little more front toe out would help."

"Tail happy on corner exit, have to really drive it out of every turn. But SO MUCH fun! It would be so easy to make this a full course drift session. Really needs a softer rear sway bar to help get power down. Looked under car after session and confirmed it was too thick, but not easy to swtich out similar to the E9X. Drove another friend’s ZL1 Camaro on the track after mine in a later session (friend too scared to ride with Leroy). He said the Camaro was actually easier to drive than the M4, but not as fun."

"Feels like driving a V8 stock car, so much torque"

"Car does not heat up, amazed at temps never budging above normal (1/3). Put our hands on the intercooler after the session as we smile ear to ear"


"This car is insane!"

E9X owners: ear muffs
"Finally!, the first car worthy of wearing the M badge since the development of the E46 M3."
"Compared to this, the E9X is total garbage on the track"


When we were finished, I thanked him, and he said "no, no, Thank You! This car would be SO fun to put coilovers on, race seat, cage and make it the ultimate track weapon." Biggest grin I’ve ever seen on him in two years of knowing him.

Video from the session with Leroy driving. Keep in mind I'm a 300lb passenger so total car weight was probably over 4000lbs! 8 laps completed, best lap time: 1:51.780

Third session with me driving and maybe trying to drive like Leroy a little too much at 3:59. Drift correction caused my hand to hit wipers which then got stuck on GoPro, which then caused wiper malfunction warnings. Only 3 laps completed, best lap time 1:54.352. Probably easily have 1:53.xxx in me with more time on track.

Always difficult to compare lap times from a track you're not familiar with, so here's a link to the track records from NASA from fully prepped race/track cars. Scroll down you'll find AMP times. http://www.nasa-tt.com//Arizona_Track_Records

Fourth and final session cut short due to "Chassis Malfunction" warning and limp mode after 2 laps. Hoping just an MDM sensor or something minor, car obviously was driving fine prior to the warnings. Went away after turning car off/on.

Thanks for taking a look!

[AWM3ME2]

[CanAutM3]

Leroy sure can drive, it was fun to watch

Very precise driving, he places the car very well on the track. Quite impressive for his first time driving the car .

Funny how the Corvette felt the pressure and overshot the corner

Thanks for sharing

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Leroy sure can drive, it was fun to watch

Very precise driving, he places the car very well on the track. Quite impressive for his first time driving the car .

Funny how the Corvette felt the pressure and overshot the corner

Thanks for sharing

Yeah, he uses every inch of the track. I swear most exits we only had half the outer tires on the track. All the more impressive since he's talking the whole time, he was trying to coach the Corvette into the corner saying "come on guy get it in there." After that save the Corvette guy had enough of us and let us by.

[m4 java green]

Damn good driving Tom! Enjoyed your video as much as Leroys!. Can I ask you what wheels and offset are you running with your 265/295 tires? What do you think of going 18's for a track setup? I see more tire options with the 18s but I'm not decided yet.
Thanks!

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by m4 java green

Damn good driving Tom! Enjoyed your video as much as Leroys!. Can I ask you what wheels and offset are you running with your 265/295 tires? What do you think of going 18's for a track setup? I see more tire options with the 18s but I'm not decided yet.
Thanks!

Yeah, my line is not too bad compared to Leroy's. Biggest differences are that he uses more/all of the track, hits apex's later, and gets power down earlier since he's more comfortable fishtailing out of every corner.

Wheels are Apex EC7 19x9.5 ET ET22 front, 19x10 ET 25 rear. The rears should be 10.5" but Apex doesn't make them yet. EC-7 will work in 18" also, and more economical than the 19", plus you can do a square setup. I would suggest find out which tires you want to use and work back from there figuring out the wheels.

[m4 java green]

Thanks for the advice on the wheels and tires. I would prefer the 19's but the tire options just aren't as good as the 18's. I definitely prefer the staggered setup to square -- back tires need to be as wide as possible I think.

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Yeah, my line is not too bad compared to Leroy's. Biggest differences are that he uses more/all of the track, hits apex's later, and gets power down earlier since he's more comfortable fishtailing out of every corner.

Wheels are Apex EC7 19x9.5 ET ET22 front, 19x10 ET 25 rear. The rears should be 10.5" but Apex doesn't make them yet. EC-7 will work in 18" also, and more economical than the 19", plus you can do a square setup. I would suggest find out which tires you want to use and work back from there figuring out the wheels.

[aus]

I'm a little confused because he loves the E46, which plowed like a tank, but also loves the tail out nature of the F8x??

.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by aus

I'm a little confused because he loves the E46, which plowed like a tank, but also loves the tail out nature of the F8x??

.

Yes I think his point was that he doesn't love the E90/2. I know he's tried to make a couple of customers' E90 good track cars, but have had mixed results.

He has an E46 street car and an E46 race car, neither of which are stock suspension so maybe it's been awhile since he tracked a completely stock one? Comments were just his raw reaction as we were driving off the track into the pits after a really fun session. Take it with a grain a salt.

He definitely said the F82's tail happiness needs to be reigned in (softer rear sway suggested), but he was having a lot of fun sliding around. I got the feeling he would of loved to have drifted the entire course.

[Candide13]

Very impressive driving indeed. Leroy's driving is so good it does not even look as if he is pushing or sliding around much, just a smooth line queuing up turn after turn for perfect execution. Nice!

[nicknaz]

Thanks for sharing! Awesome vids and great to see how much cooling capacity the car has.

Also, I'm not sure how to compare the lap times you referenced.

How would your car be classed as it sits? My GUESS would be TTA? Similar to/slower than TTD Scion FRS and TTE Mazda Miata somewhat makes me want to cancel my order and get a $10k '07 Miata MS-R .. Aren't TTD and TTE pretty much stock cars?

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for sharing! Awesome vids and great to see how much cooling capacity the car has.

Also, I'm not sure how to compare the lap times you referenced.

How would your car be classed as it sits? My GUESS would be TTA? Similar to/slower than TTD Scion FRS and TTE Mazda Miata somewhat makes me want to cancel my order and get a $10k '07 Miata MS-R .. Aren't TTD and TTE pretty much stock cars?

Probably TTB with weight/hp ratio around 9. Comparing apples to oranges though since all the cars in TT are highly modified although they have stock bodies and frames. They have cages, coilovers, brake coolers, bigbrake kits, aero, and are running the stickiest "DOT" tires (usually A6/7). To be in the laptimes ballpark with a street car like the M4 is actually very impressive no matter the weight to power ratio.

My E36 with weight/power of over 14 is still quicker (104.1xx) than my M4 at East Track with the same driver (me) obviously driving both cars. I know it doesn't seem logical, but hp on a road course is not king. Don't cancel your order, but be mentally prepared to have some Miatas up your arse at your first few track days.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

be mentally prepared to have some Miatas up your arse at your first few track days.

I know its true, but it doesn't make that reality any more pleasant.

[brian99997]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for sharing! Awesome vids and great to see how much cooling capacity the car has.

Also, I'm not sure how to compare the lap times you referenced.

How would your car be classed as it sits? My GUESS would be TTA? Similar to/slower than TTD Scion FRS and TTE Mazda Miata somewhat makes me want to cancel my order and get a $10k '07 Miata MS-R .. Aren't TTD and TTE pretty much stock cars?

If you wanted a car for the track, there are plenty in the $10k area that are faster than the M4. You will also need a new spine if you try to drive it daily though.

If you want a car that is wonderful to drive on the street and is reasonably fast at the track, the M4 is fantastic but I personally have to address the brakes but MaynardZed's car should be amazing.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by brian99997

If you want a car that is wonderful to drive on the street and is reasonably fast at the track, the M4 is fantastic

Agreed! I went for the M3 exactly for that reason (so the MRS can use it to get groceries instead of current 335 sedan) and I'll go for the cheapo track rat if/when needed.

Rest of life has limited me to 6 days last year, so I'm planning to pull the trigger on a dedicated track car if I can get back to the 1 weekend per month level of commitment.

[MaynardZed]

Happy Memorial Day!

Little bit OT (non F8X related), but definitely track related. I'm digging out this old thread because Leroy filled in for me in my E36 race car for a couple of races this past weekend after I became sick and couldn't drive.

As I watched the Q race from the tower, I witnessed probably the most amazing driving performance I've ever seen in person. Keep in mind, this is not some DE session with untrained drivers in fast cars he's going up against. All the "big bore" cars he's catching up to are driven by seasoned amateur club racers, some of which have won multiple season championships. If you like watching good driving and like rooting for an underdog, enjoy!:

[Woodengun]

Enjoyable video. Thanks for sharing!

[Candide13]

Excellent, give the man a medal already!

But did I see that right, point by from the red Corvette?
Never seen that one before..

[mcvaughan]

Both Corvettes were feeling it

[420Coupe]

Some amazing skills right there; truly makes it look effortless the way he takes the car around the track.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Excellent, give the man a medal already!

But did I see that right, point by from the red Corvette?
Never seen that one before..

Yeah, I’ve never seen Adrian do that in a race ever! He’s an awesome driver and has won his race class in that C5 every year for as long as I can remember. He thought it was Greg (in that Ultimate AutoWorks E36) dogging him, so he let him go. Greg’s car has a built S54 putting out 400hp, so when he saw Leroy go by in my little junkyard S52 E36, Adrian was like WTF!? We all had a good laugh together after the race.

Did you guys see Leroy’s “oh shit” moment at 14:30?

[shaftwhy]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Yeah, I’ve never seen Adrian do that in a race ever! He’s an awesome driver and has won his race class in that C5 every year for as long as I can remember. He thought it was Greg (in that Ultimate AutoWorks E36) dogging him, so he let him go. Greg’s car has a built S54 putting out 400hp, so when he saw Leroy go by in my little junkyard S52 E36, Adrian was like WTF!? We all had a good laugh together after the race.

Did you guys see Leroy’s “oh shit” moment at 14:30?

Incredible save!