AutoCross Helmet

[Damasconian]

Just got back from driving school in South Carolina and have the bug. I only did the car control school (Not M school) but it was still much more than I had expected. I plan on doing my first Autocross later this month.

Are the helmets that people wear in autocross the same helmets that bikers wear? Is there anything I need to know about choosing a helmet before I go out to buy one? Thanks for any input you can give.

[FTS]

They are not the same and if you intend to run with SCCA or PCA for example (I do not know if BMWCCA checks helmets at autox), they won't pass a motorcycle helmet. Generally organizations have loaner helmets on site, but you would want to check before going. Also, if you have a nearby shop that does sell motorsport helmets, they may have few to rent as well. Once you decide to do either autox or DE for longer term, you will need to have your own proper 2010 certified helmet.

[nicknaz]

OP, you need to check with the club that you plan to autocross with. I used a motorcycle helmet for autocross for a few years (since I already had one).

If you are buying from scratch, an SA (motorsport) helmet is a better idea.

At the risk of stating the obvious, plan to spent a few hours at the helmet shop if this is your first time getting one to make sure you get the fit right

[dim635csi]

+1 on Snell certified SA 2010, if buying new. Certification is good for 10 years, so you'll have 5 years left, which is a lot...

BMWCCA Golden Gate Chapter allows both SA and M for AutoX and HPDE.

DOT helmet is usually not enough.

[Damasconian]

Originally Posted by FTS

They are not the same and if you intend to run with SCCA or PCA for example (I do not know if BMWCCA checks helmets at autox), they won't pass a motorcycle helmet. Generally organizations have loaner helmets on site, but you would want to check before going. Also, if you have a nearby shop that does sell motorsport helmets, they may have few to rent as well. Once you decide to do either autox or DE for longer term, you will need to have your own proper 2010 certified helmet.

This is great information. I appreciate your response and have spent the last hour checking out whats available online.

[Damasconian]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

OP, you need to check with the club that you plan to autocross with. I used a motorcycle helmet for autocross for a few years (since I already had one).

If you are buying from scratch, an SA (motorsport) helmet is a better idea.

At the risk of stating the obvious, plan to spent a few hours at the helmet shop if this is your first time getting one to make sure you get the fit right

I will be doing my first Autocross with BMW CCA in January. We are in Houston and I met some of the guys at the December meeting. Ill get more information from them next time. Thanks!

[Reid]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

Just got back from driving school in South Carolina and have the bug. I only did the car control school (Not M school) but it was still much more than I had expected. I plan on doing my first Autocross later this month.

Congrats, welcome to a lifelong addiction that can only be cured by poverty.

Originally Posted by Damasconian

Are the helmets that people wear in autocross the same helmets that bikers wear? Is there anything I need to know about choosing a helmet before I go out to buy one? Thanks for any input you can give.

FWIW, SA 2015 certified helmets will be available on October 1, 2015 when the new standard takes effect.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

I will be doing my first Autocross with BMW CCA in January. We are in Houston and I met some of the guys at the December meeting. Ill get more information from them next time. Thanks!

May as well get one that is Hans compatible too while you're at it. You may progress to DE, TT, and even W2W if the disease takes hold of you hard like it has for many of us.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by FTS

They are not the same and if you intend to run with SCCA or PCA for example (I do not know if BMWCCA checks helmets at autox), they won't pass a motorcycle helmet.

sorry, gotta correct this. this isn't true. it may be true for SOME bmwcca/pca chapters, but i've used a motorcycle helmet at PCA/BMWCCA HPDEs (as well as SCCA/PCA/BMWCCA autox events). so as a blanket statement, it's wrong.

i definitely WOULD, however, find out from the chapter you plan on running with to make sure you're covered if you find a motorcycle helmet, or if they have any restrictions at all (e.g. less than full coverage helmets, i haven't seen any but easy enough to ask). i'd probably just buy a full-monty helmet .. having the extra face coverage may save you from getting debris embedded in your eye, forehead, cheek…. i've heard stories and it's an easy enough thing to prevent. remember you'll have your window down and driving 100+ on the heels of the guy ahead of you throwing up tons of debris can increase chances of non-collision related injuries. just a thought! the less-than full helmets are definitely more comfortable, easier to communicate while wearing, and cooler temperature wise.

finding the right helmet isn't easy, and in-store is ideal but not possible for a lot of us. using an online vendor (such as saferacer dot com) may be your best option. use their sizing information and give them a call if you have questions about fitment.

good luck and glad you found a new hobby! do some auto crosses to practice (and get comfortable having the traction control diminished/off) and then take the plunge into HPDEs. have fun and be safe!

matt

[FTS]

All of those clubs have it in their rule books (I have to double check BMW CCA, but I distinctly remember from 2002 they had it) that motorcycle helmets are not allowed, so if they are passing it during tech inspection regardless that's not my fault On the east cost, I Don't know of any chapter/region that would let it through

[Stav]

Originally Posted by FTS

All of those clubs have it in their rule books (I have to double check BMW CCA, but I distinctly remember from 2002 they had it) that motorcycle helmets are not allowed, so if they are passing it during tech inspection regardless that's not my fault On the east cost, I Don't know of any chapter/region that would let it through

What clubs do not allow motorcycle helmets?

OP, these are the SCCA approved helmets and the label inside the helmet to look for - most are for motorcycles:

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...ert_decals.pdf" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://scca.cdn.race...decals.pdf</a>

In general SNELL rating is required as long as it is not too old, motorcycle or not.

[FTS]

SNELL has multiple certifications that one should look for:

• SA - standard for auto racing
• FIA 8860 - Update to 8858, which designates an approved female M6 terminals and HANS connectors
• SAH - combination of SA and FIA certs
• K - karting certified
• M - motorcycle certified

Both SA and K standards include multi-impact roll-bar testing, while the M standard does not, as it is not designed for this use.

SA standard requires a flammability test, while the K and M standards do not, and both SA and K standards allow a narrower FoV (field of view) while the M standard requires significantly more peripheral vision.

BMW CCA does allow for M certified helmets apparently, even for DE: https://www.bmwcca.org/events/hpde

SCCA also allows for M certified helmets in Solo (autox), but not HPDE or time trials:
Solo: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/..._b_reduced.pdf
Race/DE/Time Trials, actually require 8860 cert: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...CR-January.pdf

NASA requires SA cert (1995 at that) for cars and M cert for motorcycles for DE: https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...nt/282/ccr.pdf

PCA requires SA cert for DE and autox, but varies from region to region as mentioned previously.

So if you are buying/using a helmet for safety purposes, and not just due some obligation, please use the proper helmet with certification for its intended purpose.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by FTS

SNELL has multiple certifications that one should look for:

• SA - standard for auto racing
• FIA 8860 - Update to 8858, which designates an approved female M6 terminals and HANS connectors
• SAH - combination of SA and FIA certs
• K - karting certified
• M - motorcycle certified

Both SA and K standards include multi-impact roll-bar testing, while the M standard does not, as it is not designed for this use.

SA standard requires a flammability test, while the K and M standards do not, and both SA and K standards allow a narrower FoV (field of view) while the M standard requires significantly more peripheral vision.

So if you are buying/using a helmet for safety purposes, and not just due some obligation, please use the proper helmet with certification for its intended purpose.

Your first post stated that SCCA won't pass a motorcycle helmet - then you said of clubs that won't pass them through inspections. The OP just asked if he can use a motorcycle helmet to get started in autocross and both of your answers were false, not how the helmets are tested.

[FTS]

BMW CCA does allow for M certified helmets apparently, even for DE: https://www.bmwcca.org/events/hpde

SCCA also allows for M certified helmets in Solo (autox), but not HPDE or time trials:
Solo: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/..._b_reduced.pdf
Race/DE/Time Trials, actually require 8860 cert: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...CR-January.pdf

NASA requires SA cert (1995 at that) for cars and M cert for motorcycles for DE: https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...nt/282/ccr.pdf

PCA requires SA cert for DE and autox, but varies from region to region as mentioned previously, my region requires SA cert.

So, if a club or region requires SA cert and they check for compliance, they won't pass a M cert helmet. Moreover, as I tried to explain what certs mean briefly, one should not use M cert helmets for auto racing even if allowed, but that is a personal choice.

If the argument is that my statement is not 100% accurate for all situations, I conceded; apparently some clubs and regions do allow. However, looking at rule books and understanding the different SNELL ratings is important.

[Stav]

Originally Posted by FTS

BMW CCA does allow for M certified helmets apparently, even for DE: https://www.bmwcca.org/events/hpde

SCCA also allows for M certified helmets in Solo (autox), but not HPDE or time trials:
Solo: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/..._b_reduced.pdf
Race/DE/Time Trials, actually require 8860 cert: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...CR-January.pdf

NASA requires SA cert (1995 at that) for cars and M cert for motorcycles for DE: https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...nt/282/ccr.pdf

PCA requires SA cert for DE and autox, but varies from region to region as mentioned previously, my region requires SA cert.

So, if a club or region requires SA cert and they check for compliance, they won't pass a M cert helmet. Moreover, as I tried to explain what certs mean briefly, one should not use M cert helmets for auto racing even if allowed, but that is a personal choice.

If the argument is that my statement is not 100% accurate for all situations, I conceded; apparently some clubs and regions do allow. However, looking at rule books and understanding the different SNELL ratings is important.

The argument is that your statements were absolute and wrong as answers to the original post and you seemed to state they come from experience. Would love to see if you can show us one autocross event a Snell M rated helmet is not acceptable. Note again, autocross - not anything beyond this.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by FTS

All of those clubs have it in their rule books (I have to double check BMW CCA, but I distinctly remember from 2002 they had it) that motorcycle helmets are not allowed, so if they are passing it during tech inspection regardless that's not my fault On the east cost, I Don't know of any chapter/region that would let it through

I guess having it in their rule books may not translate to what they do in practice. I've done events at MidOhio, Barber, Summit, Poconos, Memphis IR, and MSR-Cresson with a variety of BMWCCA and PCA chapters. All have allowed my M helmet (and I didn't beg or pay anyone off ) ... I do, however, still think an SA helmet is much preferred and I'm glad we don't have mounds of data showing how bad M helmets are in a car accident.

My advice to anyone buying a helmet for HPDE/autox would be to get an SA helmet. I was getting my motorcycle license so I got that helmet and later started doing DEs. my next helmet will definitely be SA and probably look into hans as well.

[M3NetNerd]

For SCCA Autocross the only requirement is that it is SNELL certified. SNELL offers a motorcycle rating called SNELL-M. So technically YES a SNELL rated motorcycle helmet is allowed for SCCA autocross. Here is a link to an inexpensive helmet that would be approved for SCCA AutoX for the next 5 years. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...T.ac=SLIsearch

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

May as well get one that is Hans compatible too while you're at it. You may progress to DE, TT, and even W2W if the disease takes hold of you hard like it has for many of us.

What's your opinion on HANS without a rollcage?

I've heard people say that's not a good idea.

[dngo]

Originally Posted by Stav

The argument is that your statements were absolute and wrong as answers to the original post and you seemed to state they come from experience. Would love to see if you can show us one autocross event a Snell M rated helmet is not acceptable. Note again, autocross - not anything beyond this.

NJ has implemented a rule for the 2015 (or has it as a proposed rule - I believe it has actually been passed) that any racing event, which includes autox, will require SA2010 rated helmets. Sucks for us. There have been objections officially raised with the State Police and the rule will likely be changed but at least initially it will take effect as written IIRC.

Dave

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

What's your opinion on HANS without a rollcage?

I've heard people say that's not a good idea.

Although they are more appropriately used with a cage, I personally would still wear a Hans without a rollcage. It may hinder you in the rare case of a roll-over and fire combined, but most high impact collisions are with the car in upright position, eg. Dale Earnhardt.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=488154

Just mentioned for OP to get a Hans compatible helmet but wouldn't necessarily need the Hans yet for just autocross.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dngo

that any racing event, which includes autox, will require SA2010 rated helmets. Sucks for us.

Are you thinking it "sucks" from a cost standpoint?

I know there is that usual "how much is your head worth" argument, but you don't need to get a $1000 arai helmet

$180 Racequip helmet, SA2010 rated and is predrilled for HANS

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...id=60208817302

I personally use something similar to that for DE and Autox. I don't have a HANS device but am thinking about it

[dngo]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Are you thinking it "sucks" from a cost standpoint?

I know there is that usual "how much is your head worth" argument, but you don't need to get a $1000 arai helmet

$180 Racequip helmet, SA2010 rated and is predrilled for HANS

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...id=60208817302

I personally use something similar to that for DE and Autox. I don't have a HANS device but am thinking about it

I happen to have a $1k Arai helmet and I'm sure my head's not worth that much. Excellent point but the issue is with drivers who will have to purchase a new SA2010 helmet for no good reason for a regulation that will in all likelihood only be in effect for a year and with a new standard probably coming late this year/early next year. The racing commission has already stated that they will make a new rule available for public comment for next season that removes the SA requirement but that the rule would go into effect as is for now. That's why it sucks - added safety provided by an SA rated helmet (which is really just a fire retardant liner - I would assume that M rated helmets do not fall apart after one impact) is definitely not a bad thing.

Do you have harnesses? If you have airbags and 3 point belts, the effectiveness/necessity for a HANS device is questionable. The R3 device was designed to be effective with 3pt belts but it is NLA.

For my track car that is getting a roll bar and harnesses this winter, I'm definitely looking into a HANS device.

Dave