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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Manhart vs DINAN?

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      12-19-2014, 06:52 AM   #1
ketema
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Manhart vs DINAN?

Got a quote on Manhart's piggyback module. Wanted to know opinions on them vs DINAN.
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      12-19-2014, 07:01 AM   #2
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My opinion is you should get any tune other than Dinan. It has been discussed in other threads that Dinan was a huge dissappointment in power gains and definitely not worth the money. I wouldn't use Dinan even if they gave it to me for free.
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      12-20-2014, 05:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_F22 View Post
My opinion is you should get any tune other than Dinan. It has been discussed in other threads that Dinan was a huge dissappointment in power gains and definitely not worth the money. I wouldn't use Dinan even if they gave it to me for free.
Disappointment compared to what? And really? Free? It can't be that bad.
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      12-20-2014, 06:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Demetrius Joel View Post
Disappointment compared to what? And really? Free? It can't be that bad.
Disappointment when it came to the performance per dollar value.

I think he is saying that paying $2,000 to what amounted to 20 whp was disappointing considering a $379 unit can instantly give one 35-40whp and a $579 unit can net anywhere from 60-100whp and suits many driving styles and performance points.
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      12-20-2014, 06:55 PM   #5
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Thats great advise on bang for buck.... But have you driven on the Manhart tune ? Or is your opinion on pure speculation ?
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Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
Disappointment when it came to the performance per dollar value.

I think he is saying that paying $2,000 to what amounted to 20 whp was disappointing considering a $379 unit can instantly give one 35-40whp and a $579 unit can net anywhere from 60-100whp and suits many driving styles and performance points.
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      12-20-2014, 07:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddy74
Thats great advise on bang for buck.... But have you driven on the Manhart tune ? Or is your opinion on pure speculation ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
Disappointment when it came to the performance per dollar value.

I think he is saying that paying $2,000 to what amounted to 20 whp was disappointing considering a $379 unit can instantly give one 35-40whp and a $579 unit can net anywhere from 60-100whp and suits many driving styles and performance points.
Hes talking about dinan, its been beaten to death that they suck
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      12-20-2014, 07:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by chaddy74 View Post
Thats great advise on bang for buck.... But have you driven on the Manhart tune ? Or is your opinion on pure speculation ?
Look at who I was replying to. He was asking about the previous response that mentioned Dinan.
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      12-20-2014, 08:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
Disappointment when it came to the performance per dollar value.

I think he is saying that paying $2,000 to what amounted to 20 whp was disappointing considering a $379 unit can instantly give one 35-40whp and a $579 unit can net anywhere from 60-100whp and suits many driving styles and performance points.
Exactly, I had jb4 on my e92 335 and would trust them more than any other tune. I experienced a bunch of different tuning options on the e92 and the jb4 agreed the best with my car and performed the best. It just so happens jb4 is one of the cheapest tunes which doesn't hurt either
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      12-20-2014, 08:38 PM   #9
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All good man !! I asked you a question on what other tunes have you tried ? I have tried most. AC,Hartage,manhart and JB4. I was just curious on what other tunes you are comparing your opinion on ? Have you tried the Dinan option ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz View Post
Look at who I was replying to. He was asking about the previous response that mentioned Dinan.
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      12-21-2014, 02:18 PM   #10
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OP, here. I guess I should qualify what I am asking for in a comparison. pure Wheel Hp is not everything. It also counts how the power is delivered and where. I.e how usable it is. I have asked for dyno sheets from Manhart to compare to the ones DINAN publishes on their website. Also I have to admit as a layman the explanation Steve gives as to how they do their tunes makes sense. I have read posts where people complain that the jb4 tunes are peaky or come on too sudden. Of course I have read plenty that say jb4 is awesome and works great. I have read mostly positive things about dinan, I have read nothing about Manhart except their MH2 which looks awesome but I wanted to hear from "normal" people that may have used their tune
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      12-21-2014, 02:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketema View Post
OP, here. I guess I should qualify what I am asking for in a comparison. pure Wheel Hp is not everything. It also counts how the power is delivered and where. I.e how usable it is. I have asked for dyno sheets from Manhart to compare to the ones DINAN publishes on their website. Also I have to admit as a layman the explanation Steve gives as to how they do their tunes makes sense. I have read posts where people complain that the jb4 tunes are peaky or come on too sudden. Of course I have read plenty that say jb4 is awesome and works great. I have read mostly positive things about dinan, I have read nothing about Manhart except their MH2 which looks awesome but I wanted to hear from "normal" people that may have used their tune
I completely understand what you are saying but the overall package is more so achieved with the jb4 since it can be tweaked to accomodate your needs and wants. You can adjust the boost to come on however you want and how strong in each gear. I wouldn't trust dyno sheets or data shown by the company themselves because they want to sell their product and will show you whatever you want to see. Always go based off customer dyno's and reviews. Secondly, Steve will tell you your car will grow wings and fly if it will help him sell his product. It's not that I only support jb4 because on the n54 platform Cobb and JB4 were excellent choices but with our available tunes on the n55 I would only trust jb4 since they are proven to make power while still maintaining reliability. I'd hate to see you spend the coin on Dinan and be dissappointed and lose all that money. You are better off trying the cheaper of the two (JB4) and if you are unhappy you can easily sell it for almost what you paid and then move on to the more expensive tunes.
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      12-21-2014, 05:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_F22 View Post
My opinion is you should get any tune other than Dinan. It has been discussed in other threads that Dinan was a huge dissappointment in power gains and definitely not worth the money. I wouldn't use Dinan even if they gave it to me for free.
Agree completely. What a worthless pile of junk. Two members got the tune and subsequently took it off after it made 8-12 hp gain. AND they mark your ECU if installed at a dealer, unlike the BMS or JB4. Not to mention those have hundreds of users with dynos showing significant gains.
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      12-23-2014, 11:10 AM   #13
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As one of the previous DINAN early users I can say you should look other than DINAN package. I had the DINAN Stage 2 on my E92 and it was wonderful (twin turbos). On the the F22 is was no where near as good for power gains.

I now have the aFe Scorcher module because of its clean and simple installation. The power is better than DINAN Stage 1 and BMS Stage 1 and cost is under $370. Better tunes exist and you should buy the one appropriate for your desired power and modifications.
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      12-23-2014, 04:38 PM   #14
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All I can say is that the unit ...... Manhart is bullshit !
I have this famous Module ... it does nothing !!
I passed the bench and I won that 10ch din .
Manhart wants nothing to do , they are dead !!
Therefore, avoid at all costs.
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      12-26-2014, 07:14 PM   #15
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dinan is worth is because you have warranty straight from BMW, JB4 i know people with it that have blown their turbos or burned their ECU's so you have to be carefull with it because it attaches to your ECU. i personally say COBB is the best tune and PRAY and wish that they make it for the M235i's loll
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      12-26-2014, 11:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilM235iXDrive View Post
dinan is worth is because you have warranty straight from BMW, JB4 i know people with it that have blown their turbos or burned their ECU's so you have to be carefull with it because it attaches to your ECU. i personally say COBB is the best tune and PRAY and wish that they make it for the M235i's loll
Actually you void your warranty with Dinan too.. Only difference is Dinan then picks up the warranty and will cover your vehicle. Dinan also yields little to no results therefore if a tune is intended to increase performance and make the car more fun its a waste. I have installed numerous jb4's on n54's and I also do flash tuning for them and have never once heard of anyone burning their ECU. Cobb is a great option but it doesn't seem like they have interest in the newer n55s with EWG.

Last edited by BD_F22; 12-26-2014 at 11:28 PM..
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      12-27-2014, 03:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_F22 View Post
Actually you void your warranty with Dinan too.. Only difference is Dinan then picks up the warranty and will cover your vehicle. Dinan also yields little to no results therefore if a tune is intended to increase performance and make the car more fun its a waste. I have installed numerous jb4's on n54's and I also do flash tuning for them and have never once heard of anyone burning their ECU. Cobb is a great option but it doesn't seem like they have interest in the newer n55s with EWG.
yea thats true man i guess the stories ive heard and the people i know that have destroyed their cars and blame it on JB4's loll they probably just over did it, didnt change intercoolers with upgraded turbos and a tune who knows lol
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      12-27-2014, 09:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delnari View Post
As one of the previous DINAN early users I can say you should look other than DINAN package. I had the DINAN Stage 2 on my E92 and it was wonderful (twin turbos). On the the F22 is was no where near as good for power gains.

I now have the aFe Scorcher module because of its clean and simple installation. The power is better than DINAN Stage 1 and BMS Stage 1 and cost is under $370. Better tunes exist and you should buy the one appropriate for your desired power and modifications.
Thanks Delnari for passing on real world results and helping others like myself steer clear.

At 2k for the results we have seen is a tuff pill to swallow. 1k would be much more interesting or better than JB4 results for 2k would be interesting as well for the warranty aspect and no maintenance. But when you do the research and find you can safely get twice the power at a fraction of the Dinan price pushed me in another direction.

Dinan Stage II looks like it will be an even worse bang for your buck and wont top a $850 JB4 and DP.
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      12-27-2014, 09:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EstorilM235iXDrive View Post
yea thats true man i guess the stories ive heard and the people i know that have destroyed their cars and blame it on JB4's loll they probably just over did it, didnt change intercoolers with upgraded turbos and a tune who knows lol
Most likely honestly, you also have to realize there are alot less Dinan customers than jb4 owners so when you have for example a group of 200 people with Dinan and 2,000 with jb4 the chances of something happening to one of the jb4 cars greatly increases in comparison. The biggest problem too is e9x platform has become so affordable a bunch of young kids are buying them, can't afford the maintenance but yet are still modding them and then they break things they blame the tune and other things.
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      12-27-2014, 11:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD_F22 View Post
Most likely honestly, you also have to realize there are alot less Dinan customers than jb4 owners so when you have for example a group of 200 people with Dinan and 2,000 with jb4 the chances of something happening to one of the jb4 cars greatly increases in comparison. The biggest problem too is e9x platform has become so affordable a bunch of young kids are buying them, can't afford the maintenance but yet are still modding them and then they break things they blame the tune and other things.
yea exactly man and what kids now a days dont understand is that if you want to go all out and push over 400-500-600+ hp how can you nottt change your intercooler i mean cmon they gotta do some research or something lmao
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      01-07-2015, 01:03 PM   #21
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so I have been asking around on this subject and here is an excerpt from a response I got from a shop that actually sells DINAN local to me:

"...has the dinantronics and independently dyno'd it before and after to find he lost power with it. 40whp at redline. These cars are too smart to have piggybacks trick them now, they don't care if they run 1 bar or .5 bar as long as their internal torque model is satisfied. They basically have an internal dyno graph that tells the ECU if it's making too much power, if you force boost in it the car will close throttle. If you force timing in it, it will dive rich and change cam angle to limit air going into the cylinders, they're basically on the edge of limp mode all the time with a piggyback. Not just Dinan either but " deleted " a bmw shop here in cali pushes the JB4 stuff and they've admitted that it loses power also. They make the power for one run on the dyno before the car goes in to "OHHHHHHHHH FUCK!" mode. ECU tuning is the only reliable way to get power and bmw has made it a chore to even attempt it. "

To me this makes sense. I want consistent permanent power. I have read and seen on Youtube from Steve DINAN himself that the very concept of a Piggy back is lying to the ECU. He says theirs is better because they adjust more variables but at the end of the day its still lying to the ECU. I can't get any explanation out of Manhart or Tuningwerk (another euro tuner with a modified 2) as to how they get so much claimed power. So the above answer to me makes me want to wait. An ECU that is actually tuned...by its very definition seems better than a piggy back and naturally makes me ask the question: any one out there know how to crack and tune the actual ECU of a M235i, or make a replacement one ?
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      01-07-2015, 01:59 PM   #22
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Thumbs up

For reference, we're working on a really thorough video look at our DINANTronics units with in-depth explanation of the process and why they work so smoothly. Stay tuned for Part 1 this month.

More big news for us today, our DINANTronics units are now 50-state emissions legal. CARB has issued executive order #D-176-42 that makes almost every single application we make emissions legal.

The N26-powered applications are still undergoing additional testing and are not yet approved, but will be supported in the near future.

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