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      08-29-2014, 09:13 PM   #1
turbo8765
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Lap Times

Hard to find any lap time data.

Please post if you have any including pertinent details i.e. mods, track conditions, experience level etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDE Motorsports Ranch Configuration #5:
2:12.92 MaynardZed M4 Stock

VIR Full
2:12.99 jbraslins M3 RA1 275/35-18 non-staggered/carbotech

Last edited by turbo8765; 09-08-2014 at 07:31 PM..
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      08-30-2014, 10:07 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Hard to find any lap time data.

Please post if you have any including pertinent details i.e. mods, track conditions, experience level etc.
Maybe we should start a lap time thread like we have on the E9X M3 forum.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315097
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      08-30-2014, 01:36 PM   #3
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Exactly.
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      08-30-2014, 10:38 PM   #4
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Good idea. I hope to have some times to post tomorrow. Frankly thought better of taking the M4 out on the track today, stuck with my E36 which is running great. Lots of cracked windshields today and really bad rocky patches gave me pause, but hope to get her on it tomorrow afternoon when the crowd thins out.

Was a good day today with the E36 though. Won my time trial group, am only 2 seconds behind my buddy in his GTR, and besting my dad by 3 seconds who is running formula ford.
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WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
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      08-31-2014, 08:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
Good idea. I hope to have some times to post tomorrow. Frankly thought better of taking the M4 out on the track today, stuck with my E36 which is running great. Lots of cracked windshields today and really bad rocky patches gave me pause, but hope to get her on it tomorrow afternoon when the crowd thins out.

Was a good day today with the E36 though. Won my time trial group, am only 2 seconds behind my buddy in his GTR, and besting my dad by 3 seconds who is running formula ford.
What track?
TTB? C?
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      08-31-2014, 08:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
What track?
TTB? C?
INDE Motorsports Ranch in Wilcox, AZ. We call it HL2, weight/power of about 11.5/1. I think that's like TTC?

I'll be keeping the nannies on if I take the M4 on track. Not expecting great lap times with it, just want to get a feel for the car on a track.
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WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
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      08-31-2014, 05:39 PM   #7
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VIR Full with PCA (08/29 - 08/31), White Group, 2:15.560

F80 stock with Pagid RSL1 fronts and Toyo RA1 275/35R18s on Apex EC-7s all around.

Beat my best E90 time by 4 seconds, and I had Ohlins + camber plates on E90.

I'll link video soon.

Surprisingly, with stock 1.5 degree of camber, RA1s wore nicely. Not rolling over the edge. Either I did not push hard enough, or stock suspension (standard, not adaptive) on F80 is effin tits.
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      08-31-2014, 10:06 PM   #8
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      08-31-2014, 11:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins


why you gotta post the vid passing the other generations?
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      09-01-2014, 12:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins View Post
VIR Full with PCA (08/29 - 08/31), White Group, 2:15.560
Nice. Couple of questions if you don't mind:
  • How did the car feel through the uphill eSes? I was hoping it would be 10-12 mph higher through there
  • Why were you short shifting through the straights; again the car seems to be hitting 10-14 mph lower than I was hoping.
  • I guess no issues with the brakes, right?
  • How was it running with that PCA group?
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      09-01-2014, 07:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post


why you gotta post the vid passing the other generations?
BMW represented pretty good in all groups. We showed some Porsche's how it's done. Nothing feel better than passing 911 Turbo. Alas, most GT3s were quick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Nice. Couple of questions if you don't mind:
  • How did the car feel through the uphill eSes? I was hoping it would be 10-12 mph higher through there
  • Why were you short shifting through the straights; again the car seems to be hitting 10-14 mph lower than I was hoping.
  • I guess no issues with the brakes, right?
  • How was it running with that PCA group?
- I have a bad relationship with those uphill esses ever since I put my E46 M3 in the tire wall by the villas there back in 2009. So I am very timid coming into them and tend to bleed off quite a bit of speed. My car has passive suspension which felt superb everywhere, except those esses. Overall car transitoned side to side well, but combination of my imperfect line and my fear did not give me confidence there. Perhaps stiffer springs and a little more low speed compression dampening would help. Still, pretty amazing for street setup. I had Ohlins R&T on my E90, and passive f80 suspension felt just as good as those in virtually all corners except the esses.

- I got into trouble for following people a bit too closely, so I tried to keep my distance on cars before passing zones. A lot of the time I short shifted cause there was traffic in front of me and I just did not need to wind it out.

I am a little timid in the front straight kink, so I am actually not flat out through there and short shift a little and maintain throttle instead of staying in it.

Same on the brakes into T14 after back straight, quick way it to stay flat out even coming downhill after the crest, then dig into the uphill on brakes. But I don't have to balls to do that, so I start to maintain right before I crest.

Coming out of hog pen, I'd short shift sometimes if I felt the rear end start to slide a little.

I general, I noticed Harry's Lap timer on iPhone does not log all that great. Speed and other data point lag sometime. I'll get AIM DL Solo as soon as they have a harness for F80.

- In terms of stopping, stock brakes with pagid pads and fluis were superb. But I did either warp a rotor or have bad brake deposit. Going to do a runout today to see whats up. That's why cam vibrated so much on brakes. But at track, I just drove through the issue and it stopped great.

- PCA is a pretty nice org. They run 5 groups (green, blue, white, black, red). Black and red are for instructors and generally very fast paced. Green and blue groups are slow, but white group is surprisingly quick. It was a 3 day weekend and they run only 3 sessions per day, but those were 30 min sessions. I felt that was perfect, downtime helped you to relax and you never felt in a rush. Never felt like I was waiting too long. Overall great org, very welcoming to other brands. Tons of really nice Porsches with full cages/track setup. Quick too. I liked it, will do again.

- Biggest improvement over the E90 is the rear end. It's so communicative and predictable. Car rotates a lot nicer than E90 and feels better balanced. It's a ton easier to drive.

- I was in DSC OFF, S2, Sport throttle and Sport steering entire time. I felt Sport plus throttle was not suitable for track at all, unless you just wanna drift.
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      09-01-2014, 08:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins View Post
In terms of stopping, stock brakes with pagid pads and fluis were superb. But I did either warp a rotor or have bad brake deposit. Going to do a runout today to see whats up. That's why cam vibrated so much on brakes. But at track, I just drove through the issue and it stopped great.
Out of curiosity, did you bed/burnish the brakes prior to the event? I've got a set of Pagid RS29's on the shelf for a track day I'm running in a few weeks and Pagid indicated the pads need a very thorough burnish prior to use.

Could you tell if the vibration was from the front or the rear? Is it possible that the stock rear pads were the ones giving up and depositing material on the discs? Quite often if the ESC is on, the rear brakes can run hotter than even the front brakes.
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      09-01-2014, 08:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridagator View Post
Out of curiosity, did you bed/burnish the brakes prior to the event? I've got a set of Pagid RS29's on the shelf for a track day I'm running in a few weeks and Pagid indicated the pads need a very thorough burnish prior to use.

Could you tell if the vibration was from the front or the rear? Is it possible that the stock rear pads were the ones giving up and depositing material on the discs? Quite often if the ESC is on, the rear brakes can run hotter than even the front brakes.
I did not DSC was off. Felt like fronts, but it can be decieving. Ill know which rotor it is for sure later today.
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      09-01-2014, 08:52 AM   #14
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For future reference, see attached.

I'll reiterate here what Pagid says:

PLEASE NOTE:
IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE BEDDING IN PROCEDURES
ARE NOT PERFORMED ON PUBLIC ROADS.
PAGID RACING MATERIALS ARE NOT FOR STREET USE.
FAILURE TO FOLLOW BEDDING IN PROCEDURE MAY
RESULT IN A SUB-OPTIMAL BRAKE PERFORMANCE.


This is obviously a procedure to be run on a closed course / controlled environment.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 0_bedding in procedure.pdf (44.2 KB, 191 views)
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      09-01-2014, 09:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins View Post
BMW represented pretty good in all groups.

- My car has passive suspension which felt superb everywhere, except those esses. Overall car transitoned side to side well, but combination of my imperfect line and my fear did not give me confidence there. Perhaps stiffer springs and a little more low speed compression dampening would help. Still, pretty amazing for street setup. I had Ohlins R&T on my E90, and passive f80 suspension felt just as good as those in virtually all corners except the esses.

- I got into trouble for following people a bit too closely, so I tried to keep my distance on cars before passing zones. A lot of the time I short shifted cause there was traffic in front of me and I just did not need to wind it out.

I am a little timid in the front straight kink, so I am actually not flat out through there and short shift a little and maintain throttle instead of staying in it.

Same on the brakes into T14 after back straight, quick way it to stay flat out even coming downhill after the crest, then dig into the uphill on brakes. But I don't have to balls to do that, so I start to maintain right before I crest.

Coming out of hog pen, I'd short shift sometimes if I felt the rear end start to slide a little.

I general, I noticed Harry's Lap timer on iPhone does not log all that great. Speed and other data point lag sometime. I'll get AIM DL Solo as soon as they have a harness for F80.

- In terms of stopping, stock brakes with pagid pads and fluis were superb.

- PCA is a pretty nice org. I liked it, will do again.

- Biggest improvement over the E90 is the rear end. It's so communicative and predictable. Car rotates a lot nicer than E90 and feels better balanced. It's a ton easier to drive.

- I was in DSC OFF, S2, Sport throttle and Sport steering entire time. I felt Sport plus throttle was not suitable for track at all, unless you just wanna drift.
You knew what I was asking, I was not criticizing your driving, and provided great feedback, than you very much. Very good driving, conservative, yet fast with minimal risk, perfect.

I thought they would do 4 sessions per day, but I personally prefer 3 as it gives time to relax. I hope you would also come to the next Summit Point event in the fall.

Again, thank you for the feedback.
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      09-01-2014, 10:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floridagator
For future reference, see attached.

I'll reiterate here what Pagid says:

PLEASE NOTE:
IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE BEDDING IN PROCEDURES
ARE NOT PERFORMED ON PUBLIC ROADS.
PAGID RACING MATERIALS ARE NOT FOR STREET USE.
FAILURE TO FOLLOW BEDDING IN PROCEDURE MAY
RESULT IN A SUB-OPTIMAL BRAKE PERFORMANCE.


This is obviously a procedure to be run on a closed course / controlled environment.
all that is bullshit. i never bed my pads before a track day since after a few hot laps on track pads, the bedding in process happens by itself - granted if there are a few sections that require hard braking turn after turn. if anything just ride the brakes on the outlap.

the juttering for me happens because when i switch back to stock pads, it is the friction due to the difference in material on the rotor from the track pad and the stock pad. it goes away as the material from the track pad is scraped off. either just leave the track pad on for a few days so it scrapes off the material (since track pads dont get to temp in city driving) or let it happen slowly with the stock pad.

in this situation the juttering was happening during the event, prob due to uneven transfer of pad material. it happens. no big deal.
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      09-01-2014, 10:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbraslins
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post


why you gotta post the vid passing the other generations?
BMW represented pretty good in all groups. We showed some Porsche's how it's done. Nothing feel better than passing 911 Turbo. Alas, most GT3s were quick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Nice. Couple of questions if you don't mind:
  • How did the car feel through the uphill eSes? I was hoping it would be 10-12 mph higher through there
  • Why were you short shifting through the straights; again the car seems to be hitting 10-14 mph lower than I was hoping.
  • I guess no issues with the brakes, right?
  • How was it running with that PCA group?
- I have a bad relationship with those uphill esses ever since I put my E46 M3 in the tire wall by the villas there back in 2009. So I am very timid coming into them and tend to bleed off quite a bit of speed. My car has passive suspension which felt superb everywhere, except those esses. Overall car transitoned side to side well, but combination of my imperfect line and my fear did not give me confidence there. Perhaps stiffer springs and a little more low speed compression dampening would help. Still, pretty amazing for street setup. I had Ohlins R&T on my E90, and passive f80 suspension felt just as good as those in virtually all corners except the esses.

- I got into trouble for following people a bit too closely, so I tried to keep my distance on cars before passing zones. A lot of the time I short shifted cause there was traffic in front of me and I just did not need to wind it out.

I am a little timid in the front straight kink, so I am actually not flat out through there and short shift a little and maintain throttle instead of staying in it.

Same on the brakes into T14 after back straight, quick way it to stay flat out even coming downhill after the crest, then dig into the uphill on brakes. But I don't have to balls to do that, so I start to maintain right before I crest.

Coming out of hog pen, I'd short shift sometimes if I felt the rear end start to slide a little.

I general, I noticed Harry's Lap timer on iPhone does not log all that great. Speed and other data point lag sometime. I'll get AIM DL Solo as soon as they have a harness for F80.

- In terms of stopping, stock brakes with pagid pads and fluis were superb. But I did either warp a rotor or have bad brake deposit. Going to do a runout today to see whats up. That's why cam vibrated so much on brakes. But at track, I just drove through the issue and it stopped great.

- PCA is a pretty nice org. They run 5 groups (green, blue, white, black, red). Black and red are for instructors and generally very fast paced. Green and blue groups are slow, but white group is surprisingly quick. It was a 3 day weekend and they run only 3 sessions per day, but those were 30 min sessions. I felt that was perfect, downtime helped you to relax and you never felt in a rush. Never felt like I was waiting too long. Overall great org, very welcoming to other brands. Tons of really nice Porsches with full cages/track setup. Quick too. I liked it, will do again.

- Biggest improvement over the E90 is the rear end. It's so communicative and predictable. Car rotates a lot nicer than E90 and feels better balanced. It's a ton easier to drive.

- I was in DSC OFF, S2, Sport throttle and Sport steering entire time. I felt Sport plus throttle was not suitable for track at all, unless you just wanna drift.
good job showing those porsche guys whats up!

its worrisome that sport+ is too twitchy (which i already suspected) but esp because thats the only mode that the manual doesnt autoblip for the driver!! damn, if it comes down to dct at least wife will say you finally didnt get a manual so i can drive it too

is the car really easier to drive with all that torque going to the rear? its so easy to slide the e9x around.
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      09-01-2014, 02:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
all that is bullshit. i never bed my pads before a track day since after a few hot laps on track pads, the bedding in process happens by itself - granted if there are a few sections that require hard braking turn after turn. if anything just ride the brakes on the outlap.

the juttering for me happens because when i switch back to stock pads, it is the friction due to the difference in material on the rotor from the track pad and the stock pad. it goes away as the material from the track pad is scraped off. either just leave the track pad on for a few days so it scrapes off the material (since track pads dont get to temp in city driving) or let it happen slowly with the stock pad.

in this situation the juttering was happening during the event, prob due to uneven transfer of pad material. it happens. no big deal.
The bolded section I don't necessarily agree with. Track pads that are not bedded from the factory (especially new ones) will out gas and have other issues if not properly bedded. I have seen it happen. I think you have been fortunate. Why would ALL track pad manufacturers very strongly warn about proper bedding if it was BS? Nothing in it for them other than ensuring the pads operate as intended... I tend to trust their engineers, along with my experience not bedding pads, in that it results in better performing pads with less issues.

The rest, I agree with
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Last edited by gthal; 09-01-2014 at 02:23 PM..
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      09-01-2014, 03:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
INDE Motorsports Ranch in Wilcox, AZ. We call it HL2, weight/power of about 11.5/1. I think that's like TTC?
Close… NASA TTC is 12.00:1
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      09-01-2014, 03:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
all that is bullshit. i never bed my pads before a track day since after a few hot laps on track pads, the bedding in process happens by itself - granted if there are a few sections that require hard braking turn after turn. if anything just ride the brakes on the outlap.

the juttering for me happens because when i switch back to stock pads, it is the friction due to the difference in material on the rotor from the track pad and the stock pad. it goes away as the material from the track pad is scraped off. either just leave the track pad on for a few days so it scrapes off the material (since track pads dont get to temp in city driving) or let it happen slowly with the stock pad.

in this situation the juttering was happening during the event, prob due to uneven transfer of pad material. it happens. no big deal.
The bolded section I don't necessarily agree with. Track pads that are not bedded from the factory (especially new ones) will out gas and have other issues if not properly bedded. I have seen it happen. I think you have been fortunate. Why would ALL track pad manufacturers very strongly warn about proper bedding if it was BS? Nothing in it for them other than ensuring the pads operate as intended... I tend to trust their engineers, along with my experience not bedding pads, in that it results in better performing pads with less issues.

The rest, I agree with
carbotech prebed
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      09-01-2014, 03:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
carbotech prebed
Me too... so convenient!
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      09-01-2014, 04:26 PM   #22
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BMW F82 M4, all stock except for 15/12mm spacers. Her maiden track voyage.

INDE Motorsports Ranch Configuration #5: 2:12.92

I'll post a detailed track review including comparisons to my E36 track car in a separate thread in this track section.

Gorgeous weekend!
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