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      06-16-2022, 09:16 PM   #1
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Z vs Supra plus Miata, WRX, Veloster N, F pace



Another solid Hagerty video
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      06-17-2022, 02:25 AM   #2
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Interesting to hear how good the supra is again but with a complaint about the rear. Savagegeese said that the rear wasn't perfect but made it fun. I hope they fix it in the new model year with the manual. I didn't know the Z engine came from the GTR. EDIT: People are saying it's not? At 5:40 they say the VR made it's debut in the Nissan R35 GTR? IDK

Last edited by workerONE; 06-20-2022 at 12:30 AM..
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      06-17-2022, 05:36 AM   #3
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the Bob Ross section First time in a long time I've literally laughed out loud in a vid.

Also "Professional idiot. Closed course."
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      06-17-2022, 08:03 AM   #4
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Cammisa's videos are always superb.
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      06-17-2022, 08:39 AM   #5
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Comparing auto to auto the 2023 Z was nearly 3 seconds slower than an auto 3.0 Supra on the same race course. Ouch! The 2023 Z was overhyped and underdelivered but hence the $10k price difference.
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      06-17-2022, 08:44 AM   #6
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Meh, too campy and i don't get the point of the entire thing???
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      06-17-2022, 09:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workerONE View Post
Interesting to hear how good the supra is again but with a complaint about the rear. Savagegeese said that the rear wasn't perfect but made it fun. I hope they fix it in the new model year with the manual. I didn't know the Z engine came from the GTR.
It's the 3.0 liter engine out of the Q60 Red Sport, not the 3.8 from the GTR.

I always wonder how these videos get widely available information wrong.
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      06-17-2022, 09:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyFSU View Post
Comparing auto to auto the 2023 Z was nearly 3 seconds slower than an auto 3.0 Supra on the same race course. Ouch! The 2023 Z was overhyped and underdelivered but hence the $10k price difference.
Does it really matter though unless you are lapping seriously and if you are you are likely heavily modding both cars suspension. Numbers are a bit of a red herring, show me grins for dollars, now grins mean different things to different people but you get my drift.
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      06-17-2022, 09:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyFSU View Post
Comparing auto to auto the 2023 Z was nearly 3 seconds slower than an auto 3.0 Supra on the same race course. Ouch! The 2023 Z was overhyped and underdelivered but hence the $10k price difference.
Does it really matter though unless you are lapping seriously and if you are you are likely heavily modding both cars suspension. Numbers are a bit of a red herring, show me grins for dollars, now grins mean different things to different people but you get my drift.
Wholeheartedly agree with this.

The subjective fun factor oftentimes gets overshadowed by objective numbers. I'm glad the video addressed that fact. I'll give any car company props for producing an ICE + manual car. Good for Nissan.

The NISMO variant will probably be a better competitor for the Supra. That being said I'd take a manual Supra.
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      06-17-2022, 09:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Does it really matter though unless you are lapping seriously and if you are you are likely heavily modding both cars suspension. Numbers are a bit of a red herring, show me grins for dollars, now grins mean different things to different people but you get my drift.
Still it sounds like the Supra is simply the better all around car as Car & Driver also came to the same conclusion comparing the cars. The Z is not a bad car but it's a value proposition only compared to the Supra.
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      06-17-2022, 10:07 AM   #11
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$10K in USD means what, here, with taxes, $15K in your pocket? Makes one pause.
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      06-17-2022, 10:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
It's the 3.0 liter engine out of the Q60 Red Sport, not the 3.8 from the GTR.

I always wonder how these videos get widely available information wrong.
They say it's from the Q50 RS400 right in the video. The video isn't wrong, the other posted just misinterpreted it.
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      06-17-2022, 10:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Does it really matter though unless you are lapping seriously and if you are you are likely heavily modding both cars suspension. Numbers are a bit of a red herring, show me grins for dollars, now grins mean different things to different people but you get my drift.
Well, IF you are lapping, starting with a car that doesn't have to be significantly modified is a huge gain, as significant modifications often push you into "modified" classes where you are competing with prepped/built race cars, where you are at much bigger disadvantage, unless you build that slower car to the same extent, thousands and thousands of dollars and modifications later where the car essentially loses it's street-value.
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      06-17-2022, 11:05 AM   #14
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I find it funny how everyone with a car that is subjectively slower always return to the "well it's fun to drive" argument
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      06-17-2022, 11:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
I find it funny how everyone with a car that is subjectively slower always return to the "well it's fun to drive" argument
I am a bit of a pragmatist, on public roads, like really, do you notice the difference between two sporty cars with a three second gap on a 90 second lap? Super unlikely.
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      06-17-2022, 11:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
It's the 3.0 liter engine out of the Q60 Red Sport, not the 3.8 from the GTR.

I always wonder how these videos get widely available information wrong.
i think he meant its from the VR family of motors. Not a VQ like previous Z's and G35s.
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      06-17-2022, 12:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I am a bit of a pragmatist, on public roads, like really, do you notice the difference between two sporty cars with a three second gap on a 90 second lap? Super unlikely.
Acceleration is not the only story
It's more than that
You'd notice .93g vs 1.01 g lateral
You'd notice 147 vs. 166 ft 70-0 braking
Why is it 24 mpg vs 30mpg highway

You'd notice the numb steering
Just to name a few things
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      06-17-2022, 01:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
I find it funny how everyone with a car that is subjectively slower always return to the "well it's fun to drive" argument
It's really not a hard argument to make. Slower cars like the Toybarus are loads of fun because you can wind them out on public roads without exceeding the speed limit (sometimes). Miatas are slow as hell, but one of the most rewarding cars you can drive at any price point. Hell, my 128 is slower than a V6 Camry. Which is more fun to drive?
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      06-17-2022, 06:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
It's really not a hard argument to make. Slower cars like the Toybarus are loads of fun because you can wind them out on public roads without exceeding the speed limit (sometimes). Miatas are slow as hell, but one of the most rewarding cars you can drive at any price point. Hell, my 128 is slower than a V6 Camry. Which is more fun to drive?
you camry is NOT nor is it marketed as a fun RWD sports car
the miata IS

tell me this Batman......Is there a car enthusiast out there with a slower car who would say no to better brakes? better wheels/tires for improved handling
and more herspers for some increased vroom vroom
or will they say NO WAY! it'll ruin my fun to drive feels man!
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      06-17-2022, 08:47 PM   #20
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Supra is the better car but Z is the better looking car. So there is that…
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      06-17-2022, 08:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderguts View Post
It's really not a hard argument to make. Slower cars like the Toybarus are loads of fun because you can wind them out on public roads without exceeding the speed limit (sometimes). Miatas are slow as hell, but one of the most rewarding cars you can drive at any price point. Hell, my 128 is slower than a V6 Camry. Which is more fun to drive?
you camry is NOT nor is it marketed as a fun RWD sports car
the miata IS

tell me this Batman......Is there a car enthusiast out there with a slower car who would say no to better brakes? better wheels/tires for improved handling
and more herspers for some increased vroom vroom
or will they say NO WAY! it'll ruin my fun to drive feels man!
Yep. I f'ed up my Miata making it track worthy. It was terrible at being a daily and lost all of its fun. My GTI is on Michelin All Seasons because it's a GTI, not a Chiron. People think magazine numbers mean something and they're just wrong. Fun is sliding, surprise oversteer and occasional oh shit moments. Removing those things is fine for the track but no fun on the streets.

Every Tesla is quicker than my GTI, so is a GTR or even a G63. But I wouldn't trade for any of them. My car is fun. Theirs are not. Numbers are for suckers.

I'm likely getting a Caterham for a track car. It won't be the fastest thing, but it will be fun and challenging. Mistakes will be my fault, not some computer or awd system.
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      06-17-2022, 09:07 PM   #22
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Let's see how much faster the Supra will be with the 6MT. My guess is it will only be marginally quicker/faster than a 6mt Z. We're talking maybe .2 seconds and 1 to 2 mph in the 1/4 mile, if that.

Then add the same Michelins as the Supra and then braking and lateral grip gets way closer too.

Even though the Supra will be significantly slower than the auto Supra, most know it will be substantially more fun to drive. It's why I ordered my M235 with a 6MT.
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