BMW Munich plant ceases ICE car production in 2027. Begins Neue Klasse EVs in 2026

[eff32fl]

I'll take EVs seriously when the unelected bureaucrats and politicians stop flying in private jets and stop owning multiple beach side mansions.

[Krids1229]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

But this change needs to be imposed by the government.
Educating you is much harder than putting out some new regulations. Also, government needs to protect me and my son and future generations from catastrophe. That's why the government exists.

Humans aren't that smart. When government doesn't force people to put on seatbelts, they don't wear them and die in the first 20mph accident they get into. When it doesn't force people to stop buying guns, they do and kill random people. When it doesn't force them to dump all their chemical waste into rivers, they do and kill animals and poison people. When it doesn't force them to stop smoking, they do and kill themselves. You got the idea. Or maybe not. Probably not - and that's why you need to be forced.
That's why we humans choose a government and give them the right to regulate. That's called the Social Contract.

EVs won't solve climate change by themselves. But it's a part of it. If you're obese, you wouldn't say "I can eat this large pizza by myself. Not eating this won't put me in shape anyway, so f/ck it".

I will agree that we all need to abide by the Social Contract. Unfortunately, this appears to have weakened greatly over the last 25-30 years. If we can't figure out mutual benefit and service to others, a higher form of altruism, I fear many other things will also unravel as well.

We humans appear to be overly self-destructive and outwardly aggressive - our government should be expected to be a form of and push for a more idealized version of our society. And whether you like it or not, regulation and laws reflect that idealized state.

Or at least should.

And I think that's the rub.

BEVs pollute less and are more energy efficient? I'm pretty sure the science shows that.

Oil and petroleum products have caused mass pollution for decades? Again, science is on our side on that one (and no, carbon dioxide IS NOT harmless)

The economics of propping up the oil and gas industry? Capitalism argues that a profitable industry likely doesn't need trillions of dollars from the government and our taxes.

I get it - the devil is in the details, and we can argue when and how quickly to implement a change over.

But damn it, why does it feel like people are trying to run out the clock on this one? To some, its running out the clock on who is in charge of the government. But to some like us, its literally running the clock out on humanity.

And that pisses me off.

Just so some greasy businessmen can milk out a few more bucks, or some disingenuous politician can pocket a few bills.

Maybe we need to look a bit beyond ourself, and think of others for once.

[ZL9M2]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The difference is the free market of consumers made the decision to choose cars over horses. The change wasn’t imposed on the people by the government.

Exactly. I wouldn't get too excited by all these "end of the ICE" predictions. Kind of like all of the predictions of all of us burning up and the world ending due to global warming.

[Krids1229]

Originally Posted by eff32fl

I'll take EVs seriously when the unelected bureaucrats and politicians stop flying in private jets and stop owning multiple beach side mansions.

The inaction of others is no excuse not to take action yourself.

Conspicuous consumption is gross, but don't say we can't all do some good individually.

I saw a bag of garbage on the side of the street today - but that's not to say I'm now going to dispose of my trash that way.

If our high road always counts on the lowest common denominator...we're not getting anywhere.

[odiesback]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Really? Post your evidence. You think the government started building the infrastructure because they wanted to encourage people to adopt the car?

Looneys like you and the EV crowd must be super fun at parties

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by stefan

Interesting that Toyota will be focusing exclusively on hybrids, Ford and GM are writing to Biden asking to relax the EV push, but BMW is going all in.

Personally the car itself doesn't bother me, it's that 90% of locations on earth aren't equipped to manage their charging requirements. And the value of the car will be less than the cost of a battery replacement at ~150,000 as well. That isn't remotely being addressed.

Few BMWs are worth more than the cost of a new engine at 150K miles (or roughly 15Y)... Our cars drop in value so fast and so hard depreciation feels a lot like sky diving...

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by odiesback

Looneys like you and the EV crowd must be super fun at parties

??? What?? Are you equating what I posted with the EV crowd? Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension. Yes, in fact, I’m pretty fun at parties and I can carry on an intelligent conversation while I’m there. Thanks for noticing.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Few BMWs are worth more than the cost of a new engine at 150K miles (or roughly 15Y)... Our cars drop in value so fast and so hard depreciation feels a lot like sky diving...

The point is a well maintained engine can easily go 300,000 - 500,000 miles or more. Well maintained engines don’t need to be replaced at 150,000 miles. As it stands right now EV batteries have roughly a ten year life span and then they have to be replaced if you want to keep using the car.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Krids1229

Its hard to hear the message over all the whimpering and whining in here.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

This happens every time BMW introduces a new generation of car. So much bemoaning that they always used to be better than what we have now, or what is coming in future generations.

Guess what. Change always happens, always will.

Don't like the future generations? Don't buy it

Think the last generation or two was better? Buy a used car.

Think you can do better? Start your own car company.


Go wring your hands, but the writing is on the wall. BEVs are here, and will continuing coming.

If you're so obsessed with your fossil fuels, propping up the oil industry, and dumping carbon into our shared planet, I'm sure you can buy a RAM truck and idle it somewhere.

I'll idle my ram truck in your house.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

You're commenting under the news that it's already happening, and decided. BMW's factory is being re-built so that they will only build EVs. Same with VW, Mercedes Benz, and all others. All the EU countries and U.S. put in place deadlines for ICE sales. And especially in Northern Europe, EV sales are already approaching 50% of new car sales.
And you still call it a fantasy. So you believe, they will all need to go back to build ICE engines huh? I wonder who's in the fantasyland

Destructive political propaganda aimed at uneducated and/or intellectually deficient and/or people who are incapable of diversifying their news sources - is the biggest problem of our time and the biggest obstacle towards progress.

Just curious how many European countries have you personally visited in the last 2-3 years?

[Krids1229]

Originally Posted by GinTonic

I'll idle my ram truck in your house.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

Lol

J/k

It’s on the sixth floor.

And that tracks exactly for a RAM truck owner

Try to keep in your lane on the way over and bring the truck nuts for the full effect.

[Alpine Wait]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I won’t argue with you that it may “really not be that great.” But, the fact is it’s virtually impossible to kill yourself anymore by locking yourself in the garage with your car motor running, because they no longer put out enough carbon monoxide to get the job done. It’s not impossible, but you’ll actually die from lack of oxygen being replaced by carbon dioxide and it will take A LOT LONGER. Today’s catalytic converters convert 99% of carbon monoxide into harmless-to-the-environment carbon dioxide.

Care to livestream your attempted at an hour locked in your garage with your gas car idling?

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The point is a well maintained engine can easily go 300,000 - 500,000 miles or more. Well maintained engines don’t need to be replaced at 150,000 miles. As it stands right now EV batteries have roughly a ten year life span and then they have to be replaced if you want to keep using the car.

A well maintained EV can likely to do the same.

Like this Telsa that's over 300K miles on its original battery and brakes...

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html

But there are a lot more older Toyota's on the road than older BMW's so I'm still not sure this is a point that makes sense for you to make. But you do you.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Cars aren't the only greenhouse gas producer, there's so many other sources and countries who make the contributions from cars look like a drop in the bucket.

Absolutely! Look at buildings; construction, architecture / engineering. Biggest energy dump of them all.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Another case of people getting their news from political commentators instead of actual sources.
As if nobody ever thought of this huh?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/cleanener...act-guidebook/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...EVI)%20program.

When the government tells you they care about your well being, you better run the other way. My parents fled Poland in the late 80s for a reason. All I see is Americans put too much trust in theirs.

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Everyone referencing the environmental impact of huge mining operations for rare metals... Forgetting what goes into getting oil from the ground? The Valdez spill, the BP oil spill, tens of thousands of other oil spills? What goes into the manufacturing of the platforms and rigs needed to pull the crude up? And the manufacturing of the shipping vessels to then ship it all to refineries.. and then from the refineries to the gas stations... And then when the gas is shipped to it's final destination, go ahead and burn it all... Seriously? We don't yet think there might be a better way?

So batteries are the answer? Relying on a failing national infrastructure grid that cant support Political agendas. Makes sense. LOL

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Also, government needs to protect me and my son and future generations from catastrophe.

Meanwhile we invade countries dropping our bombs on other nations.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

It's not something to agree or disagree on.
It's happening, it will happen.

Also, mining cobalt and lithium is bad for environment, but not nearly as bad as hundreds of millions of cars constantly putting exhaust gas in the air. Not even a percent of that. If you don't believe me, get in a garage, close the door, and turn on your engine. It's really not that great. Or, you can just pickup an elementary school science textbook to learn about greenhouse effect.

And 'no one wants these cars'? Seriously? Seems like you're getting your science & market news from political outlets.

Walk within 1000 feet of the waste pools resulting from the mining and refining of the necessary materials that produce batteries and see how your health goes. Don’t forget to mention mining and refining all the same car frame/chassi metals themselves. Check out the massive deisel vehicles that facilitate exstraction of the aforementioned materials. Now consider the life of the battery packs (4-6 years) in the vehicles in amounts equal or greater than the ICE market. Still think the electric vehicle is the next good move for the globe? The transition of waste types is all we are accomplishing currently.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

A well maintained EV can likely to do the same.

Like this Telsa that's over 300K miles on its original battery and brakes...

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html

But there are a lot more older Toyota's on the road than older BMW's so I'm still not sure this is a point that makes sense for you to make. But you do you.

Post again about that 2018 model Tesla in five years.

There are a lot more Toyotas sold in the United States than BMWs. Toyota generally has around 14% - 16% market share in the U.S. BMW stays pretty consistent at 2.5%

[19G20]

Good luck. EV is unsustainable for the long haul.

[M_Torx]

They will change there mind in 2024

[bholler]

In the future I’ll still just want a car(bmw) with hips.