[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Cmon, just look at how every other car is slotted into the class/price range. E92 is sliding in just below the E46 M3 range (fully loaded around $60k), which mean fully loaded probably just peaks $50k. With the new M3 projected around $65k - $70k loaded, I don't think they'll leave a $20k price gap between the top of the line 3 series and the M model. So getting a E92 335 with sports package at under $45k is little optimistic in my view, I think it will $45k at the VERY LEAST.

I'm tired of saying this but I'll say it again:

The M3 is not thought of or marketed as being an extension of the base 3 series line. Never has...probably never will. This goes back to the original E30 M3, which was really a production race car sold to the public only to allow the M3 to be homologated for touring car races. Despite the fact that the M3 has become more of a grand tourer through recent iterations of the model, it is still a different car with a different purpose and a different target audience.

Note that there's a $20,000+ gap between the 550i and M5 and an even bigger gap between the 650i and the M6. A $20,000 gap between 335i and M3 is not inconceivable.

The end.

[ase2dais]

Originally Posted by luxman999

I'm very excited to see and test drive the new 335i. Its performance numbers are really impressive, almost equal to current M3 and 650i. Wow! I think it could actually be a better car for many of us, including myself, than the new M3. I'm dare to say it could well be more "practical M3" for many people.

I'm sure the new V8-powered M3 will be much faster car, but it will come at price...being too expensive (near $60k easily) and other costs (high insurance, lower gas mileage, "less" reliability and etc) could easily add up too.

Also the new 6 speed automatic transmission offered by 335i is very fast (100 mili sec shift) and economical. This could be the perfect tranny for me because the SMG is too "edgy" and 6-speed manual is not too practical for me (commute traffic and wife-has-to-drive-too factor).

As long as a 335i with step and sport pkg is about 45K or less, this will be my next car.

I agree, I think the 335 will fill the apetitte of those M3-In-Waitings

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by akhbhaat

I'm tired of saying this but I'll say it again:

The M3 is not thought of or marketed as being an extension of the base 3 series line. Never has...probably never will. This goes back to the original E30 M3, which was really a production race car sold to the public only to allow the M3 to be homologated for touring car races. Despite the fact that the M3 has become more of a grand tourer through recent iterations of the model, it is still a different car with a different purpose and a different target audience.

Note that there's a $20,000+ gap between the 550i and M5 and an even bigger gap between the 650i and the M6. A $20,000 gap between 335i and M3 is not inconceivable.

The end.

Perhaps you are tired of saying it because instead of actually reading what I'm saying, you just repeat yourself over and over. I never said the M3 is an extension of the 3 series, I simply said top of the line 3 series will have a giant price gap to where the M3 will be at, which did not exist in the previous 3 series/M3. The entire BMW vehicle line up does have different cars slotted at different class/price range. When you look at a 335 in reference to the rest of the BMW line up, it does slide in under the M3 in regards to size/power/performance. The $20k price gap between regular 5/6 and the their M counterparts has always been there, while a $20k gap between a 3 series and the M counter part will double the original price gap in the previous model. If you want to talk the M3 not being marketted as an extension of the base model 3 series, why would they even call it M"3" and BASE the car off a regular 3 series model (including both the 4 door and coupe version)? If you want to talk about an targeted "audience", if the new M3 is going to jump up 10 grand in price, that will definitely lose a part of it's previously targeted audience ($50-60k range), don't you think they'll need a car to come in and satisfy that audience? Is a $50k 335 so inconceivable, perhaps with a $53k ZHP model with a 20hp bump?

But back to the original topic, I'd wait for a M3, well actually I am waiting for the M3.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Perhaps you are tired of saying it because instead of actually reading what I'm saying, you just repeat yourself over and over. I never said the M3 is an extension of the 3 series, I simply said top of the line 3 series will have a giant price gap to where the M3 will be at, which did not exist in the previous 3 series/M3. The entire BMW vehicle line up does have different cars slotted at different class/price range. When you look at a 335 in reference to the rest of the BMW line up, it does slide in under the M3 in regards to size/power/performance. The $20k price gap between regular 5/6 and the their M counterparts has always been there, while a $20k gap between a 3 series and the M counter part will double the original price gap in the previous model. If you want to talk the M3 not being marketted as an extension of the base model 3 series, why would they even call it M"3" and BASE the car off a regular 3 series model (including both the 4 door and coupe version)? If you want to talk about an targeted "audience", if the new M3 is going to jump up 10 grand in price, that will definitely lose a part of it's previously targeted audience ($50-60k range), don't you think they'll need a car to come in and satisfy that audience? Is a $50k 335 so inconceivable, perhaps with a $53k ZHP model with a 20hp bump?

But back to the original topic, I'd wait for a M3, well actually I am waiting for the M3.

Yes, a $50K 335i is inconceivable. No 3er will cost more than a 5er.

EDIT: Okay, I take that back. I just saw the 330Cic and 525i.

But it's still inconceivable.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Perhaps you are tired of saying it because instead of actually reading what I'm saying, you just repeat yourself over and over. I never said the M3 is an extension of the 3 series, I simply said top of the line 3 series will have a giant price gap to where the M3 will be at, which did not exist in the previous 3 series/M3. The entire BMW vehicle line up does have different cars slotted at different class/price range. When you look at a 335 in reference to the rest of the BMW line up, it does slide in under the M3 in regards to size/power/performance. The $20k price gap between regular 5/6 and the their M counterparts has always been there, while a $20k gap between a 3 series and the M counter part will double the original price gap in the previous model. If you want to talk the M3 not being marketted as an extension of the base model 3 series, why would they even call it M"3" and BASE the car off a regular 3 series model (including both the 4 door and coupe version)? If you want to talk about an targeted "audience", if the new M3 is going to jump up 10 grand in price, that will definitely lose a part of it's previously targeted audience ($50-60k range), don't you think they'll need a car to come in and satisfy that audience? Is a $50k 335 so inconceivable, perhaps with a $53k ZHP model with a 20hp bump?

But back to the original topic, I'd wait for a M3, well actually I am waiting for the M3.

Based on everything I’ve seen and read out of BMW (press releases, executive speeches, future plans, etc) along with BMWs history with the models I find what you are proposing does not fit with BMWs plans. This model and engine is not intended to bridge a gap in the 3 series line and the M line.

What do you think will be a base MSRP on an e92 328 if the 335 will be $50K? Keep in mind the coupe historically is only $1000 more than the sedan equivalent and the e92 328 will not be as powerful as the e90 330.

[Robert]

Cheapest hardtop Porsche is the Cayman S. That thing starts off at 49,999 and can easily be configured to 70,000. I think Porsche has increased their terrority and BMW step up to fill the gap. Us consumer gets rape.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

IMO: E90 M3 will be >10k$ more than the 335.
Hence the 335 will be an excellent choice for those looking for a fast, fun car.
M3 is pushing into Porsche territory.
I anticipate getting my E90 335 ZSP on ED for $38.5k (1.2k over invoice). Just a wild guess.

[climkt]

The M badge on a 3 series in saloon , coupe on convertible form always has mass appeal as it is the ultimate 3 series vehicle. personally, most people would aspire for the M3 unless you want to be more discreet and less ostentatious. practicality wise, i think the new m3 will prob be about the same as the 335i, ride would be stiffer, outright performance and stopping power would be much better. if price diff is minimal, i am sure more people will go for the new m3 rather than the 335i

[cntlaw]

Motosports , AMG are luxury tuners cars exclusively designed for the VERY demanding individuals who will not compromise with anything less and willing to pay for the best.
Sorry, this thread is another masturbative discussion here if it goes on.

[Traceaz]

Originally Posted by climkt

practicality wise, i think the new m3 will prob be about the same as the 335i, ride would be stiffer, outright performance and stopping power would be much better. if price diff is minimal, i am sure more people will go for the new m3 rather than the 335i

That doesnt make much sense. Of COURSE if the price difference is very small, people would prefer the E90 M3 over the 335i. However, the price difference won't be minimal. Full loaded 335i to fully loaded E90 M3, my guess is a 15k-20k difference.

[wyrm11]

Originally Posted by wahoo

wyrm...where are you???

sigh...I was gonna let you go but apparently you insist on being reminded of your idiotic comments.

YOU predicted that the 335i coupe would START at $47k. $47K STARTING. Do you see ANYONE on this thread saying that?

Since you seem to insist on reminding everyone how "right" you are, I'll help you:

1) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=21

Originally Posted by wahoo

its called planned obsolescence. You'll get used to it. Nothing different than the 328i e46 getting pushed aside by the 330i. I've lived that one and going to wait for a while to get the 335si. As far as M badging, or the 'M'. You can bet it will be 60k by the time you option it out. The new M will compete with the 911. Thats just my opinion but if the 335 is 305 hp I assume it will start at 47k or so. BMW is less concerned about your 'feelings' and more concerned about getting your $$$.

2) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=40

Originally Posted by wahoo

Dear Wyrm11,

I 'speculate' about 47k. HOWEVER, keep in mind that a loaded 330 goes for around 45-6k MSRP. Given that, and given that the 335 will have 20% more hp, what makes you think it will start at 42? Are you crazy?? It will have the same horsepower as the current e46 M3. What is the 'starting' price of the current M3? (ahem, Forty what??? thats right, 47) The M3 is going up-market and consequently, consider that the start point for the M3 sedan will be in excess of 50k. It will be MORE than an equally optioned S4 as Audi is the 'bargain' of the marques. The S4 STARTS at 47k and is a total and complete pig gas-wise, handling and throttle response. So, at BEST I foresee the 335 STARTING at 45k with leatherette, which basically means, with leather and wood interior, count on 47k. That is the basis for my number. Read it, memorize it and weep. I bet it starts at 44.9k. Just like a 323 starts at some ridiculously advertised price when we all know that with anything optioned it will be 3k above 'starting at' price.

Keep in mind, I have no care for 'coupe' prices and market segment. BMW consistently is more per hp than the competition. Period. So, I revise my statement, 45k, MAYBE. Why would they offer a better handling car, with BMW name, better handling and better service than the S4, for a cheaper 'starting at' price??? Makes no sense. Typically they are 'more' and justify the price difference as 'owning BMW' etc. I still do not see your logic. BMW doesn't compete with 'like' price point. It simpy doesn't happen in the current market. They offer BMW experience for a premium over the competition.

BOTTOM LINE, you spouted off saying the 335 will START at $47k and then back tracked during your incoherent rants...and STILL landed at $45k "maybe" (your words). The fact that you're trying to "brag" about the idiotic prediction of $47k STARTING when everyone in this thread is saying $42k (MY prediction which you called "crazy") to $45k starting just shows how foolish you really are.

So why don't you just give it up and stop acting like a petulant child? It's so easy making you look stupid that it's actually not fun anymore.

How about we make a deal? You stop trying to call me out for some idiotic reason, and I'll stop making you look like a moron.

[climkt]

A 20k US diff between e92 335i and e92 m3 would not stop me from saving up for a m3. i would still go for e92 M3. makes plenty of sense to me.

[stressdoc]

I would love an M3 too, but it looks like it is getting too complex, pricey, and heavy for me. I do not want a V8. Something like a 335si M-sport CSL would be ideal.

[maxpagani]

Originally Posted by bobbo

The only advantage of the 335i is lower cost. If M3 and 335i cost the same most people will get the M3.

It's not going to be as razor sharp as an Elise or Evo to the point where it becomes impractical as an everyday driver. M3 will always be the luxury, multi-purpose sports coupe. That's why a lot of people go through weight loss program and suspension modifications for their track m3.

If you mean financial practicality, yes, I agree with you but then again that's different for everyone.

I agree. Being close to the performances of my actual M3 I may decide to go for the 335i instead of the new M3. Also in view of the fact that here in Italy the new M3 will be likely priced between 70k and 80k euro (100k $ ...)

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Perhaps you are tired of saying it because instead of actually reading what I'm saying, you just repeat yourself over and over. I never said the M3 is an extension of the 3 series, I simply said top of the line 3 series will have a giant price gap to where the M3 will be at, which did not exist in the previous 3 series/M3.

You're arguing semantics. My point, in brief: the pricing of the M3 does not correlate in any way to the regular 3 series cars. I ought to point out that demand for the E46 M3 exceeded available supply (which has a fixed ceiling due the manufacturing complexity of the Sxx engines) for nearly the entire production run. BMW could theoretically increase the price of the new model and make a greater profit per unit while still maintaining the maximum production rate for several years. This was not the case for the 330i/Ci, which suffered a significant sales slump following the first two years of production. The 335i, like the 330Ci that preceeded it, is much more subject to market conditions than the M3, and must be priced accordingly.

I stand by my original response.

[ward]

Originally Posted by bobbo

Cheapest hardtop Porsche is the Cayman S. That thing starts off at 49,999 and can easily be configured to 70,000. I think Porsche has increased their terrority and BMW step up to fill the gap. Us consumer gets rape.

it actually starts at 58,000

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ward

it actually starts at 58,000

[cntlaw]

This is another masturbative thread ? Motosports, AMG are exclusive sports car design for the very demanding individual who will not compromise luxury, comfort, performance and exclusiveness.
335i is just a normal car in the middle class like IS300, CLK350, Audi 3.2.

[carnuts3]

The bottom line for me is that after I test drive both the 335i and M3 I will decide which one is for me. If the 335i drives "close enough" vs the M3 and is $15 - $20k less than the M3, then I will purchase the 335i. If I feel that the 335i is seriously lacking, then I will choose the M3. But, I must say that I will need a real good compelling reason to spend so much more for the M3.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by carnuts3

The bottom line for me is that after I test drive both the 335i and M3 I will decide which one is for me. If the 335i drives "close enough" vs the M3 and is $15 - $20k less than the M3, then I will purchase the 335i. If I feel that the 335i is seriously lacking, then I will choose the M3. But, I must say that I will need a real good compelling reason to spend so much more for the M3.

Assumed you were referring to M3 E92 not M3 E46.
The M3 E92 will be 410hp V8, there is zero chance a merely 310hp 335i can be any closer? The M3 E92 should make 4.6s. I sometime found the 367hp C55 slow even it makes 4.9s (335i is 5.4s)
The M3 E92 will beat 997S, C55 and even RS4.

[akhbhaat]

I honestly doubt that - regardless of how the final performance numbers fall - the 335i will really drive anything quite like the E90/E92 M3. If there's one thing, anything, that seperates the M or AMG type cars from their more pedestrian counterparts, it's how they drive. At the very least, the M3 will have a different steering rack and different throttle calibration. For example, note that the Z4M has a traditional rack and pinion setup, in contrast to the electronic system in the base Z4 cars.

[chonko]

Why do I have the feeling that some people just want the 335i to be priced really high! As a consumer I can't understand why I would want to pay more than what is necessary. I believe the 335i sedan will be priced below $40K. Actually $38K is the range that I am looking at -max. I own an E90 330i,does that mean that for a couple of grand more someone will drive a 335i over what I paid for the 330i-yes.
Anyway, I think an M car is designed with a different set of requirements as oppossed to a regular sedan, and I believe the 335i is not an M car- period.
Performance-wise, it's not all about HP and numbers, it is about a complete package. F-1 should serve as a good example, just in case we need some form of reference.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by chonko

Why do I have the feeling that some people just want the 335i to be priced really high! As a consumer I can't understand why I would want to pay more than what is necessary. I believe the 335i sedan will be priced below $40K. Actually $38K is the range that I am looking at -max. I own an E90 330i, that does that mean that for a couple of grand more someone will drive a 335i over what I paid for the 330i-yes.
Anyway, I think an M car is designed with a different set of requirements as oppossed to a regular sedan, and I believe the 335i is not an M car- period.
Performance-wise, it's not all about HP and numbers, it is about a complete package. F-1 should serve as a good example, just in case we need some form of reference.

That's what I was thinking...some members WANT the 335i to be priced highly.