Paddle shifter mounting location?

[madmonkey]

So I was watching the motor trend head to head video of the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio and the M3.

Something they said during the Alfa review made me say "Wahhh?!". They say that paddle shifters belong on the column and if you think they belong on the steering wheel, then you are wrong.

I was thinking about that and I guess that all Formula 1 drivers are wrong then. But I thought maybe I should put this to a poll. What do you guys think? Column or steering wheel?

[obert]

I like them on the wheel so I can have both hands on the wheel.

[86merc]

Formula 1 cars are not turning the wheel much. Not like in a street car. So they can stay on the wheel.

With a street car you turn the wheel much more when you take corners. Say 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. When you are on a road course you shuffle your hand to turn the wheel. Keeping your hands and arms from crossing over each other. Basically, you do not go "hand over hand" when you turn. So when you shuffle the wheel you can keep your hands around the same area. So you can have your hands by the steering column mounted paddles. I would think it would work very well.

[Germanauto]

I like having them but to keep the old school feel I usually just go into manual shift mode and row through the gears with my right hand. It's more fun than just flicking the paddles.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by 86merc

Formula 1 cars are not turning the wheel much. Not like in a street car. So they can stay on the wheel.

With a street car you turn the wheel much more when you take corners. Say 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. When you are on a road course you shuffle your hand to turn the wheel. Keeping your hands and arms from crossing over each other. Basically, you do not go "hand over hand" when you turn. So when you shuffle the wheel you can keep your hands around the same area. So you can have your hands by the steering column mounted paddles. I would think it would work very well.

Thank you. End of story.

[madmonkey]

Originally Posted by 86merc

Formula 1 cars are not turning the wheel much. Not like in a street car. So they can stay on the wheel.

With a street car you turn the wheel much more when you take corners. Say 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. When you are on a road course you shuffle your hand to turn the wheel. Keeping your hands and arms from crossing over each other. Basically, you do not go "hand over hand" when you turn. So when you shuffle the wheel you can keep your hands around the same area. So you can have your hands by the steering column mounted paddles. I would think it would work very well.

While I can see your logic, and it's been a while since I did any track time, it would have to be one hell of a turn that would make using column mounted more practical than steering mounted. Even in a long sweeping 90deg turn at speed, shuffling your hands would not be ideal. In an S sequence it's even less ideal. However, shuffling would be necessary with paddles mounted at the column. If you think about it, your hands stay fixed on the wheel when racing so it makes sense for the paddles to turn with your hands.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by 86merc

Formula 1 cars are not turning the wheel much. Not like in a street car. So they can stay on the wheel.

With a street car you turn the wheel much more when you take corners. Say 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. When you are on a road course you shuffle your hand to turn the wheel. Keeping your hands and arms from crossing over each other. Basically, you do not go "hand over hand" when you turn. So when you shuffle the wheel you can keep your hands around the same area. So you can have your hands by the steering column mounted paddles. I would think it would work very well.

F1 guys at most do a 90 degree turn and never have to hand over hand. For track use I would say put them on the wheel. F1 steering wheels are minimalistic, no top or bottom, because racecar!

For the real word I prefer them on the column, like rally car drivers prefer. You always know where the paddles are. Every time I make a turn I have to use the shifter instead of the paddles because the wheel is upside down and I'm not a hundred percent certain which is up and down.

I vote column.

[FriskyDingo]

On the wheel.


The bigger problem is why makers- even Porsche!!- continue to make the manual shifter backwards. Back should be upshifts, forward should be downshifts!!! IT IS THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY!!

[angelr]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

On the wheel.


The bigger problem is why makers- even Porsche!!- continue to make the manual shifter backwards. Back should be upshifts, forward should be downshifts!!! IT IS THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY!!

Agreed on both! Paddles on the wheel so they stay with your hand placement, I've tracked a lot with DSG and that location works. I also wish that everyone would follow BMW's lead with the lever initiating an upshift when pulled back and downshift when pushed forward.

[519.E82]

Id say column, because during city driving if I'm turning from a light, I tare through first and second on any corner and having large paddles that you can reach from almost anywhere would be nice instead of doing awkward hand movements. The only argument for on the steering wheel is if your not doing harsh corners or your going slow enough where you can use one hand and shift at the shifter/gear selector.

[angelr]

Originally Posted by TroyButler

Id say column, because during city driving if I'm turning from a light, I tare through first and second on any corner and having large paddles that you can reach from almost anywhere would be nice instead of doing awkward hand movements. The only argument for on the steering wheel is if your not doing harsh corners or your going slow enough where you can use one hand and shift at the shifter/gear selector.

That's the opposite of what I find to be true. If you have proper hand placement you can keep two hands on the wheel and shift up or down without doing anything more than flexing an extended finger or two. You can also increase the size of the paddles to make this more forgiving but unless you're talking about a super tight switchback you shouldn't have to move your hands. And in that case you should already be in the proper gear for the turn, start accelerating out of it and grab the shift once you restore proper hand position as you unwind the wheel.

[insanecoder]

I too prefer it on the column where it would be a fixed place to shift

[madmonkey]

Keep the comments coming guys!! It's great to get different perspectives on this issue.

Blksnowflake mentioned that rally drivers prefer paddles on the column. Is there anyone with rally experience that can give insight as to why that is?

[519.E82]

Originally Posted by angelr

That's the opposite of what I find to be true. If you have proper hand placement you can keep two hands on the wheel and shift up or down without doing anything more than flexing an extended finger or two. You can also increase the size of the paddles to make this more forgiving but unless you're talking about a super tight switchback you shouldn't have to move your hands. And in that case you should already be in the proper gear for the turn, start accelerating out of it and grab the shift once you restore proper hand position as you unwind the wheel.

I do agree with your points and i do use proper hand positioning, maybe its because of the paddles I have (2008 128i Steptronic) that while turning on certain turns (not bends) I can't just extend a finger

[angelr]

That's not me btw....I have more hair

[nrgy]

I don't know which to choose. I'm used to them on the steering wheel so at the moment I like it better that way, but I just picked up a "performance" car with them fixed on the column, and I'm told they do that so your not tempted to change gears in a turn, which makes sense from my limited track experience.

For real world driving though, when I'm not going all out which is most of the time, I like to be able to change gears whenever I want.

[Redd]

Column better for normal driving. Wheel better for track.

[drewnel22]

Originally Posted by Redd

Column better for normal driving. Wheel better for track.

Exactly I was going to say. Street driving involves much more wheel rotation so I would prefer to always know the paddle location. Race cars turn the wheel less than one rotation from lock to lock so the drivers hands never have to move. Therefore having them on the wheel makes the most sense.

[JohnnyCanuck]

I drove a buddy's G35 a few years ago and his were column mounted and it's definitely a better experience. Infiniti used fairly long paddles in that car so you could reach them with your fingers from about 2:00. The BMW sized paddles on the column would be less ideal than being wheel mounted.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by madmonkey

While I can see your logic, and it's been a while since I did any track time, it would have to be one hell of a turn that would make using column mounted more practical than steering mounted. Even in a long sweeping 90deg turn at speed, shuffling your hands would not be ideal. In an S sequence it's even less ideal. However, shuffling would be necessary with paddles mounted at the column. If you think about it, your hands stay fixed on the wheel when racing so it makes sense for the paddles to turn with your hands.

You really can't compare an F1 car to a street going car that also sees occasional track use. So you can still make a tight turn and keep your hands on the wheel because of the small amount of steering wheel input to get the wheels to turn sharply. In a street car you will have to turn the wheel more. More than your body will allow when your hands do not leave their position on the steering wheel. Because your arms cross and get in the way. Damn arms!

Now when you have to turn the wheel greater than your body will allow, like in a tight turn, I was taught not to do hand over hand steering. You don't want to have your hands off the wheel like that. The shuffle is preferred. So if you shuffle your hands they will be basically in the same area all the time. And if the paddles are on the column they will also always be in the same spot. Making it easy to make those gear changes. Unlike having to take your eyes off the course to find out where the paddles are located due to the turned steering wheel.

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

The bigger problem is why makers- even Porsche!!- continue to make the manual shifter backwards. Back should be upshifts, forward should be downshifts!!! IT IS THE TRUTH AND THE ONLY WAY!!

I agree. Way back in highschool I had a car with a reverse manual valvebody in it. I had to pull back on the shifter to move up in gears. It was so much more natural. As you accelerate your body is pushed back into the seat. So pushing forward to upshift is awkward. Any time after that I had issues with cars that were push forward to upshift. It was a nice surprise when I saw my 335i was pull back to upshift.

Originally Posted by drewnel22

Exactly I was going to say. Street driving involves much more wheel rotation so I would prefer to always know the paddle location. Race cars turn the wheel less than one rotation from lock to lock so the drivers hands never have to move. Therefore having them on the wheel makes the most sense.

Hunting for where the paddles are when in a turn is my biggest gripe.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

I drove a buddy's G35 a few years ago and his were column mounted and it's definitely a better experience. Infiniti used fairly long paddles in that car so you could reach them with your fingers from about 2:00. The BMW sized paddles on the column would be less ideal than being wheel mounted.

Proper size paddles are important. Almost as much a placement.

[Anthony235]

I like them on the column so I always know where they are located when the wheel goes end over end. Especially when getting sideways

One of my biggest gripes of my m235.

[Nivarox]

I prefer them being attached on the steering wheel thus I can upshift/downshift easier when cornering