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      09-12-2022, 10:35 AM   #353
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It also seems that Schumacher is likely to be dropped from Haas. Will the FIA allow Herta in for a super licence, not looking too likely at the moment so it might be that Gasly stays at AT and leaves the Alpine seat open?

Still a lot to shake out, and did everyone also read that Albon went into intensive care yesterday in a post op issue he had due to anaesthetic complication? He is now out and is set to return home but seems it was a little touch a go for a minute.
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      09-12-2022, 10:47 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Donít know about the MB stuff but definitely agree. It was a lot of fun to see in an otherwise fairly straightforward/boring race. Was surprised to see both McLarens up there, until RICís retirement of course.
I think they've played a role in him not having a seat yet.

Imagine Williams is a mid-pack car once Latifi goes.
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Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
It also seems that Schumacher is likely to be dropped from Haas. Will the FIA allow Herta in for a super licence, not looking too likely at the moment so it might be that Gasly stays at AT and leaves the Alpine seat open?

Still a lot to shake out, and did everyone also read that Albon went into intensive care yesterday in a post op issue he had due to anaesthetic complication? He is now out and is set to return home but seems it was a little touch a go for a minute.
I read respiratory failure....
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      09-12-2022, 10:50 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
I read respiratory failure....
Indeed not good at all, he should be fine for Singapore apparently but either way his backup is pretty darn strong. Hope NDF gets on the grid next year seems a fast drive with lots of potential.
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      09-12-2022, 10:51 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Consistency? Interesting last year that they went ďmotor car racingĒ with a bigger accident to clean up and this year they didnítÖÖÖÖÖ.

I do agree it wouldnít of mattered though. RB/Max is just too strong this year.
That's why Masi got fired, and they followed the rules this year. See where I'm going here? People got mad they followed the rules this year after what happened last year.
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      09-12-2022, 10:54 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
That's why Masi got fired, and they followed the rules this year. See where I'm going here? People got mad they followed the rules this year after what happened last year.
Agreed, all on FIA. I didnít agree with Masiís fateful decision last year but he was somewhat scapegoated as evidenced by FIA still wonít fully come clean about that incident and others.
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      09-12-2022, 10:57 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Agreed, all on FIA. I didnít agree with Masiís fateful decision last year but he was somewhat scapegoated as evidenced by FIA still wonít fully come clean about that incident and others.
This is why I like you.
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      09-12-2022, 11:19 AM   #359
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So, I just read this post on another forum but it's really mind blowing to hear it.

At the start of the 2021 season, Max was #30 in all time race wins.

After Monza, Max is #7 in all time race wins.

By the end of 2024, Max can be 3rd of all time next to Schumacher and Hamilton at 26 years old.

Completely insane.
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      09-12-2022, 11:31 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
So, I just read this post on another forum but it's really mind blowing to hear it.

At the start of the 2021 season, Max was #30 in all time race wins.

After Monza, Max is #7 in all time race wins.

By the end of 2024, Max can be 3rd of all time next to Schumacher and Hamilton at 26 years old.

Completely insane.
However many Lewis or Max has its a bit of an empty stat to me.

Today most cars and engines are very reliable, they can fail but some are crazy consistent compared to the 70s or 80s F1 cars that regularly failed, sometimes less than 10 cars finished, that is unheard of today. Look at Russell, that other than Silverstone has had stunning reliability.

Also in the 80s sometimes there were only 14 races not the 24 we have today and some teams didn't even keep the same driver for the season again fairly uncommon now.

Bring the two together and if you have a dominant car that is reliable, its easy to blow the stats thus Lewis currently high number and now Max quickly catching up.
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      09-12-2022, 11:34 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
However many Lewis or Max has its a bit of an empty stat to me.

Today most cars and engines are very reliable, they can fail but some are crazy consistent compared to the 70s or 80s F1 cars that regularly failed, sometimes less than 10 cars finished, that is unheard of today. Look at Russell, that other than Silverstone has had stunning reliability.

Also in the 80s sometimes there were only 14 races not the 24 we have today and some teams didn't even keep the same driver for the season again fairly uncommon now.

Bring the two together and if you have a dominant car that is reliable, its easy to blow the stats thus Lewis currently high number and now Max quickly catching up.
No doubt but the win percentage will definitely be very respectable.

Lewis has the most inflated stats of all time.
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      09-12-2022, 11:38 AM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Consistency? Interesting last year that they went “motor car racing” with a bigger accident to clean up and this year they didn’t…………….

I do agree it wouldn’t of mattered though. RB/Max is just too strong this year.
That's why Masi got fired, and they followed the rules this year. See where I'm going here? People got mad they followed the rules this year after what happened last year.
I think the rule is stupid in general and the post-race broadcast touched on it. With the 3 or 4 laps remaining, they assessed the situation and knew it would take more than the laps remaining to remove the McLaren and at that point, could have red flagged it. Now I'm not saying red flag every incident but perhaps they need to think about this for when these things happen toward the end of the race.

The idea or assumption that because Driver A was ahead so they deserve to win is dumb because anything can happen up to the last lap. The likelihood that VER would have still won after 2 or 3 laps of racing was high but shit happens. He or any driver could over or under steer and suddenly get passed.
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      09-12-2022, 11:40 AM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Agreed, all on FIA. I didnít agree with Masiís fateful decision last year but he was somewhat scapegoated as evidenced by FIA still wonít fully come clean about that incident and others.
I agree with this. I mean i have my opinion what what I think the decision SHOULD have been last year but that's been discussed ad nauseam and I don't wanna get in to it lol. It was a tough but not so tough spot for Masi so I sorta get it even though I 100% didn't agree with what he did. He was definitely the focus of the blamethrower...
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      09-12-2022, 11:47 AM   #364
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Why does every incident that might take a few laps to be cleared up need a red flag, I'm not getting it at all, maybe I'm missing something.

F1 has NEVER done this, ever, most other racing formula doesn't either, F2, Nope, F3, Nope, GT racing, Nope, WEC, Nope.

But F1 should why, so that the Netflix generation can get an extra set of instance thrills, erm Nope. If the incident is big and parts of the circuit damaged or if someone is hurt or the potential then, RED FLAG. For anything else then its a Safety Car and the race plays out, simples. Why complicate something that has been the same for decades in racing.
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      09-12-2022, 12:45 PM   #365
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Not finishing under yellow is the only thing NASCAR gets right. It's hard to believe people are advocating for safety car finishes over racing. The rules need to change.
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      09-12-2022, 01:09 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRod321 View Post
I agree with this. I mean i have my opinion what what I think the decision SHOULD have been last year but that's been discussed ad nauseam and I don't wanna get in to it lol. It was a tough but not so tough spot for Masi so I sorta get it even though I 100% didn't agree with what he did. He was definitely the focus of the blamethrower...
It is a bit comical to see a lot of the same people who said last year's race should have ended under a SC now saying a race shouldn't end under a SC. Max and RB, of course, wanted to finish under green light conditions as he wants to win that way (unlike MB who would love to win without having to actually win). Max represents the steel strengthens steel mentality...
Also, now that the rules state "all" not "any" laps cars must unlap themselves there should be no issues on that.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 09-12-2022 at 01:20 PM..
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      09-12-2022, 01:12 PM   #367
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      09-12-2022, 01:12 PM   #368
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Not finishing under yellow is the only thing NASCAR gets right. It's hard to believe people are advocating for safety car finishes over racing. The rules need to change.
The issue is how much advantage it gives to teams when they're leading/following. Combine that with emissions/set time for a race, and they can't add on laps because fuel issues/emissions, and a restart can cause even more problems.

Everyone wants racing, but the way F1 is headed (50/50 combustion/electric, E10+ fuel etc.) you will never see laps being added on. Noone wants safety car endings, but the leader was leading by 20 seconds, not a second or two, they were in no hurry to rush clearing the car, Max would have won anyways.

The more rules you change, the more problems it creates. Not to mention NASCAR and F1 isn't anything alike, one is racing around an oval, and the other is sustained high Gs around a racetrack, one also has refueling while the other doesn't.
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      09-12-2022, 01:17 PM   #369
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Max sounded like a boy who received the toy he wished for Christmas after learning Santa wasnít real.
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      09-12-2022, 02:06 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
It is a bit comical to see a lot of the same people who said last year's race should have ended under a SC now saying a race shouldn't end under a SC. Max and RB, of course, wanted to finish under green light conditions as he wants to win that way (unlike MB who would love to win without having to actually win). Max represents the steel strengthens steel mentality...
Also, now that the rules state "all" not "any" laps cars must unlap themselves there should be no issues on that.
My thought is that it shouldn't have ended in a safety car, but they also shouldn't have let any of the lapped cars through. It's either let them all through or none of them through not just the ones between 1st and 2nd. Isn't that what the rule book stated? The same way hamilton had to navigate them, verstappen should've had to navigate them. He had fresh softs so would he have still won? I think it was highly possible he would have but there wouldn't have been the controversy that there is now. Everyone would've legit recognized Max as a great driver for fighting through to pull it out(I'm not a fan of his but I recognize how good he is, it's not JUST the car but that's me). You wouldn't have had all the bickering that STILL exists today lol. Masi's decision looks like hamilton was purposely set up to lose, hence the controversy.
I also blame wolff for not pitting Ham for fresh tires. I get it, he didn't wanna lose position but where's the faith in Hamilton's ability to get it back? The merc was running really good and we all know Hamilton is a great driver(At least I THINK we all know), add fresh softs that he could've absolutely romped on? I think it would've definitely made an exciting end. Anyway, enough Monday morning quarterbacking lol.
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      09-12-2022, 02:16 PM   #371
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      09-12-2022, 02:21 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRod321 View Post
My thought is that it shouldn't have ended in a safety car, but they also shouldn't have let any of the lapped cars through. It's either let them all through or none of them through not just the ones between 1st and 2nd. Isn't that what the rule book stated? The same way hamilton had to navigate them, verstappen should've had to navigate them. He had fresh softs so would he have still won? I think it was highly possible he would have but there wouldn't have been the controversy that there is now. Everyone would've legit recognized Max as a great driver for fighting through to pull it out(I'm not a fan of his but I recognize how good he is, it's not JUST the car but that's me). You wouldn't have had all the bickering that STILL exists today lol. Masi's decision looks like hamilton was purposely set up to lose, hence the controversy.
I also blame wolff for not pitting Ham for fresh tires. I get it, he didn't wanna lose position but where's the faith in Hamilton's ability to get it back? The merc was running really good and we all know Hamilton is a great driver(At least I THINK we all know), add fresh softs that he could've absolutely romped on? I think it would've definitely made an exciting end. Anyway, enough Monday morning quarterbacking lol.
All fair points - no matter what decision was made, it would have created controversy.

This year, we can see, even with more black & white rules, at the Dutch GP and at Monza there is still controversy on SC, VSC, etc.
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      09-12-2022, 02:31 PM   #373
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      09-12-2022, 02:54 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
All fair points - no matter what decision was made, it would have created controversy.

This year, we can see, even with more black & white rules, at the Dutch GP and at Monza there is still controversy on SC, VSC, etc.
No controversy, some upset losers in Ferrari that wanted to win at home having been awful in sooo many ways this year. And Redbull who have to oppose how it ended as it ended in the way Abu Dhabi should have done if the rules had been followed.

Nobody else is complaining, in fact some teams are saying the opposite which is not hard to understand why. Was it a bit duller, sure but it was ended in the same way countless other races have within F1 over decades and decades. Change the rules if you donít want it ending it this way but unless they are then this is how it should end.
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