Cost of repairing crank hub/bolt issue?

[ZoneLaps]

I'm trying to decide whether to keep my car stock (and buy an extended warranty) or run a flash tune. My searching and research in this forum has revealed the crank hub/bolt issue.

That said, I couldn't find any prices on how much it would cost to fix if paying out of pocket. I did see the thread with the guy in the 6MT who "money shifted" and was quoted $50k to replace everything (engine, turbos, etc.) and I've seen the cost to replace the engine (~$30-35k), but I haven't seen the cost of the standard "just the bolt" replacement to fix the engine. How much would it cost to fix just the bolt, which I think is the repair that most people did here?

A repair under $10k wouldn't be a huge issue to me. A repair bill of $20k+ would be (I could afford it but my marriage may not....)

[michaelalex17]

This is one of the reasons I went with the Dinan Stage 2 tune. People are going to chime in and say that Dinan doesn't retain your factory warranty etc. but at the end of the day I rather have that when my engine blows up than any other tune. Having said that there is always risk and you have to pay to play. I could be wrong, but I don't know if there actually is a fix for the crank hub issue. I know several have come or with "fixes", but those have broken as well and then you aren't covered under warranty

[GlazierGlaze]

MaxPSI has built a crank hub of their own that costs $1,299 in parts and 20 hours in labor.

I'd argue it is a fix/preventative fix. When you spin the crank hub, typically the engine goes out of timing and you end up with nerfed engine.

[JuanK20]

Are you asking how much it cost to do the preventative crank hub fix (Pre-Spinning the crank hub)

Or are you asking how much it costs to fix the engine after the crank hub spins?

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by JuanK20

Are you asking how much it cost to do the preventative crank hub fix (Pre-Spinning the crank hub)

Or are you asking how much it costs to fix the engine after the crank hub spins?

The latter. I've seen the preventative fix, but as I understand it a similar preventative fix a couple of years ago turned out to cause more issues. I'd rather wait until something actually happens.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by michaelalex17

This is one of the reasons I went with the Dinan Stage 2 tune. People are going to chime in and say that Dinan doesn't retain your factory warranty etc. but at the end of the day I rather have that when my engine blows up than any other tune. Having said that there is always risk and you have to pay to play. I could be wrong, but I don't know if there actually is a fix for the crank hub issue. I know several have come or with "fixes", but those have broken as well and then you aren't covered under warranty

Dinan Stage 2/3 would have appeal if I had more than 13 months left in warranty. You can't get a BMW extended warranty with a Dinan tune anyway, and Dinan doesn't give any extended warranty. Maybe aftermarket warranties would allow it, but I doubt it.

[michaelalex17]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Dinan Stage 2/3 would have appeal if I had more than 13 months left in warranty. You can't get a BMW extended warranty with a Dinan tune anyway, and Dinan doesn't give any extended warranty. Maybe aftermarket warranties would allow it, but I doubt it.

I see, makes sense

[6SPD GOD]

If you're afraid of things breaking just don't tune it.

Preventive doesn't mean it will not break. Something else can take a dump on you.

I just close my eyes and press trigger. Anyway, who knows? I might die tomorrow.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by MNMWMWMN

If you're afraid of things breaking just don't tune it.

Preventive doesn't mean it will not break. Something else can take a dump on you.

I just close my eyes and press trigger. Anyway, who knows? I might die tomorrow.

I'm not suggesting that I go preventative here or that I avoid all risk. I just want to understand the level of risk before I jump in, and I can't find any answer as to how much this fix would cost.

[GlazierGlaze]

Or just completely ignore my comment which actually has a legit fix.

MaxPSI has a preventative fix running on both of their shop cars, each of which is pushing 700+ whp. They've yet to spin the hub since they machined their own hub.

Also, get educated. Stock cars have spun their crank hub, this is as much a stock car issue as it is a tuned car issue.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Or just completely ignore my comment which actually has a legit fix.

MaxPSI has a preventative fix running on both of their shop cars, each of which is pushing 700+ whp. They've yet to spin the hub since they machined their own hub.

Also, get educated. Stock cars have spun their crank hub, this is as much a stock car issue as it is a tuned car issue.

Hi. I didn't mean to ignore your comment, which I appreciated. I understand that there is a preventative fix, but as I understand it another preventative fix that came out two years ago (TPG) turned out to make the issue worse (see, e.g., http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1226184 ). The new preventative fix might be better for sure, but, on the other hand, my crank hub may never have an issue. So it's all risk tolerance.

In any event, I understand that stock cars have spun the crank hub as well. I don't think the tune actually causes the issue (although it may expedite the problem), but I'd be surprised if BMW warrantied the problem if you have a tune. If the problem is $10k or less to fix, then no problem. If it's more, then I may want to just buy the extended warranty and pass on tuning. So this is more of a "how much will it cost to fix once it's happened" rather than "how much do I need to spend to prevent it from ever being a problem".

[GlazierGlaze]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

Hi. I didn't mean to ignore your comment, which I appreciated. I understand that there is a preventative fix, but as I understand it another preventative fix that came out two years ago (TPG) turned out to make the issue worse (see, e.g., http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1226184 ). The new preventative fix might be better for sure, but, on the other hand, my crank hub may never have an issue. So it's all risk tolerance.

In any event, I understand that stock cars have spun the crank hub as well. I don't think the tune actually causes the issue (although it may expedite the problem), but I'd be surprised if BMW warrantied the problem if you have a tune. If the problem is $10k or less to fix, then no problem. If it's more, then I may want to just buy the extended warranty and pass on tuning. So this is more of a "how much will it cost to fix once it's happened" rather than "how much do I need to spend to prevent it from ever being a problem".

TPG cut a notch in the existing hub. MaxPSI has actually gone and fabricated their own heat treated hub assembly. Totally different animal.

If it happens it's going to cost you the cost of a new motor so anywhere from 15-30K if you're out of warranty. If you're tuned, you're fucked no matter what in or out of warranty. IF you're sock and within warranty, BMW will replace no question asked.

Tuning isn't the problem, the problem is increased stress on the engine caused by higher than stock TQ levels which increases with tuning.

[BuLoOoSki]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

MaxPSI has built a crank hub of their own that costs $1,299 in parts and 20 hours in labor.

I'd argue it is a fix/preventative fix. When you spin the crank hub, typically the engine goes out of timing and you end up with nerfed engine.

[GlazierGlaze]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

Yeah, I bout shit my pants when that line popped up in Mike's email. Budgeting it to be about 3-4K all in.

[ZoneLaps]

My wife made a great point on this tonight. Basically, it sounds like there is less than a perhaps 1% or so chance that this issue comes up. It's better to enjoy the car (which I will interpret as modding) than to spend $6k on an extended warranty for something that probably won't happen.

In other words, it probably does not make sense to have 100% chance of spending 25% of the cost of this potential repair as compared to a 1% chance of spending 100% of the cost.

[raywai2]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

My wife made a great point on this tonight. Basically, it sounds like there is less than a perhaps 1% or so chance that this issue comes up. It's better to enjoy the car (which I will interpret as modding) than to spend $6k on an extended warranty for something that probably won't happen.

In other words, it probably does not make sense to have 100% chance of spending 25% of the cost of this potential repair as compared to a 1% chance of spending 100% of the cost.

Don't think you got the math quite right there. It's more like 1% chance of spun hub $$ + X% chance of the top part of the engine goes wrong + X% of the bottom part of the engine + X% of the transmission + X% of miscellaneous....all the expected values combined over the 3 years of extended warranty period. Who knows what all those percentages are, but it's not like self-insured is a clear win like you mentioned. With that said, I am more leaning towards self-insured for my 2015 seeing how reliable the f8x platform has been, or I might do drivetrain warranty.

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by raywai2

Don't think you got the math quite right there. It's more like 1% chance of spun hub $$ + X% chance of the top part of the engine goes wrong + X% of the bottom part of the engine + X% of the transmission + X% of miscellaneous....all the expected values combined over the 3 years of extended warranty period. Who knows what all those percentages are, but it's not like self-insured is a clear win like you mentioned. With that said, I am more leaning towards self-insured for my 2015 seeing how reliable the f8x platform has been, or I might do drivetrain warranty.

Drivetrain warranty is like 60ish% of the Platinum ESC price, so that definitely would save some money. Of course, in the process you lose the ability to flash/piggyback, and you're still paying 1/6 or so of the cost of the engine replacement (100% chance of paying ~16%). As you point out, it also covers transmission, etc., but I'm not sure I've seen a single issue on other such components in the threads here (and the DCT has been around for a long time now).

That said, I agree with your math.

[hellokitty]

Buy a M5 instead?

[ZoneLaps]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Buy a M5 instead?

I had one (2013 F10 bought new). It was glorious (other than the 4 doors). I sold it to downgrade to a 2018 S5 in September for various reasons that aren’t worth getting into. Worst decision ever — I despised the S5 after the initial couple of weeks of “new car” wore off. I even-traded it for a used 2015 M4, which is fantastic except for traction, audio, and exhaust.

My plan is to keep this one until the AWD M4 comes out in 3-4 years. Hence the interest in making it as awesome as possible and asking the question in the OP of this topic.

[brian30tw]

Surely we can agree that the absolute largest financial loss possible from a spun crank hub is the cost of a new car, call it $75,000.

If you believe the chances of spinning a crank hub are 1%, then the upper bound of the expected loss is $75000 * .01 = $750.

If you think paying ~$3000-4000 for an insurance policy to protect against an expected loss of <$750 is a good idea, then you are the most risk averse person I've ever met.

[rexb16]

Originally Posted by brian30tw

Surely we can agree that the absolute largest financial loss possible from a spun crank hub is the cost of a new car, call it $75,000.

If you believe the chances of spinning a crank hub are 1%, then the upper bound of the expected loss is $75000 * .01 = $750.

If you think paying ~$3000-4000 for an insurance policy to protect against an expected loss of <$750 is a good idea, then you are the most risk averse person I've ever met.

um no, it's an insurance policy against whatever a spun crank hubs costs. your logic is broken...

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by isaywhateveryo

I had one (2013 F10 bought new). It was glorious (other than the 4 doors). I sold it to downgrade to a 2018 S5 in September for various reasons that aren’t worth getting into. Worst decision ever — I despised the S5 after the initial couple of weeks of “new car” wore off. I even-traded it for a used 2015 M4, which is fantastic except for traction, audio, and exhaust.

My plan is to keep this one until the AWD M4 comes out in 3-4 years. Hence the interest in making it as awesome as possible and asking the question in the OP of this topic.

AWD M4? Not sure that's gonna happen.

Let's hope not. If I wanted AWD I would have bought an Audi. Just saying