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      05-06-2019, 12:35 PM   #1
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A solid and honest question for our leftist members

So, reading a few articles today, I came across a question I've seen in years past and again, it really hit home.

I struggle with our current political climate these days because there is too much 'us and them'. I am quite liberal when it comes to my social policy approval. I think gay folks should be allowed to marry and get the same government rights as everyone else. I don't think a church should be mandated to officiate the wedding, though. I think we need to revamp our criminal justice system to spend more time finding ways to correct bad behavior instead of just incarcerating folks and making it more likely for them to continue down the wrong path in the future. There are many other examples as well. But - ultimately I always vote Republican because of this question below. I simply cannot come up with a single answer to it:

Name one left wing Democrat objective that, if implemented, would allow you to earn and keep more money and/or that would make you freer.

I honestly cannot think of one. As such, I continue to vote a party ticket even though some of the Republican ideals make me upset or I don't agree with. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

So - left wing friends - and anyone else who cares to join in - help me out here. Can you answer the question and provide supporting evidence of the response? I am honestly willing to listen.

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      05-06-2019, 12:42 PM   #2
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13 of 52 identified as "Liberal". 2 (at least) banned (Taskmaster and irishbimmer). Openwheel declined to vote.
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      05-06-2019, 01:06 PM   #3
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If you asked the same question of those on the right, you might, MIGHT, get tax reduction to the first part of the question but not get much response on the second part. It seems both parties want more control of our lives, just different parts.
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      05-06-2019, 01:12 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
If you asked the same question of those on the right, you might, MIGHT, get tax reduction to the first part of the question but not get much response on the second part. It seems both parties want more control of our lives, just different parts.
I can see your point, but in general, I feel that the Republican party tends more towards limited government and less regulations than the Democrat party does. The sheer volume of regulations the current administration has rolled back is staggering. So that is a big positive to me.

This isn't just for federal politicians, either. I see this substantially more at the local and state level. The state I live in, which is historically Republican, has far less governmental intrusion in my life than the state just adjacent to it, which is historically Democrat. I have no state income tax, extremely low property taxes, lifetime handgun concealed carry permits that are given out on a 'shall issue' basis, no vehicle inspections of any kind, no title requirements for boats or trailers, no emissions regulations, minimal business regulations, and on and on. Those items are nearly polar opposites at the adjacent state and even more opposite in the state my mother grew up in and where my family resides - Connecticut.
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      05-06-2019, 01:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
So, reading a few articles today, I came across a question I've seen in years past and again, it really hit home.

I struggle with our current political climate these days because there is too much 'us and them'. I am quite liberal when it comes to my social policy approval. I think gay folks should be allowed to marry and get the same government rights as everyone else. I don't think a church should be mandated to officiate the wedding, though. I think we need to revamp our criminal justice system to spend more time finding ways to correct bad behavior instead of just incarcerating folks and making it more likely for them to continue down the wrong path in the future. There are many other examples as well. But - ultimately I always vote Republican because of this question below. I simply cannot come up with a single answer to it:

Name one left wing Democrat objective that, if implemented, would allow you to earn and keep more money and/or that would make you freer.

I honestly cannot think of one. As such, I continue to vote a party ticket even though some of the Republican ideals make me upset or I don't agree with. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

So - left wing friends - and anyone else who cares to join in - help me out here. Can you answer the question and provide supporting evidence of the response? I am honestly willing to listen.

Yeah, Im basically a single issue voter: liberty. Of course, this manifests in many ways throughout the political platforms, but it has kept me voting republican for a very long time. Definitely a lesser of two evils.

We have enjoyed freedom for so long now that it seems like most people take it for granted. But they shouldnt, given the size and intrusiveness of government at every level these days.
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      05-06-2019, 01:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
If you asked the same question of those on the right, you might, MIGHT, get tax reduction to the first part of the question but not get much response on the second part. It seems both parties want more control of our lives, just different parts.
Taxes, sure. But also 1A, 2A, regulation, economic policy (the Rs tend to be more Austrian and less Keynesian), judicial nominations (more textual, less judicial legislation), states rights (more local control, less federal control), etc.
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      05-06-2019, 03:20 PM   #7
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Over 200 clicks and not one reply from a firm liberal/democrat?
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      05-06-2019, 03:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Over 200 clicks and not one reply from a firm liberal/democrat?
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      05-06-2019, 03:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Over 200 clicks and not one reply from a firm liberal/democrat?
He should run this on a Prius forum, or Subaru.........
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      05-07-2019, 10:06 PM   #10
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well with trumps tax plan i pay more...

i think the difference is that with the progressives its not all about money. theres also more recognition that the system is rigged in favor of powerful monied interests. and if you take issue with that then go try and invest in a hedge fund.

certainly getting profit out of healthcare puts money in all our pockets. getting everybody to buy insurance puts money in our pockets. adjusting the tax code so that hugely profitable companies and ultra wealthy individuals actually pay tax at their tax rate puts money in our pockets. so yeah, theres a lot of things that the left supports that puts money in pockets but the assumption here is that we arent all multimillionaires here.
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      05-07-2019, 10:37 PM   #11
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Im not a liberal or a Democrat, but Ill bite, just for the sake of argument. What if Im a Tesla employee/exec, and the Democrats were able to pass legislation that banned fossil fueled vehicles? Id certainly see more money in my pocket.

Just taking a shot ...
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      05-08-2019, 07:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
He should run this on a Prius forum, or Subaru.........
Hey, I owned two Subarus in the past.
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      05-08-2019, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Over 200 clicks and not one reply from a firm liberal/democrat?
It's because this sub-forum has become tiresome and not generally a place where anyone on the left feels welcome.
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      05-08-2019, 09:04 AM   #14
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It's because this sub-forum has become tiresome and not generally a place where anyone on the left feels welcome.
Well, I didn't answer because I wasn't the target demographic.
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      05-08-2019, 09:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
So, reading a few articles today, I came across a question I've seen in years past and again, it really hit home.

I struggle with our current political climate these days because there is too much 'us and them'. I am quite liberal when it comes to my social policy approval. I think gay folks should be allowed to marry and get the same government rights as everyone else. I don't think a church should be mandated to officiate the wedding, though. I think we need to revamp our criminal justice system to spend more time finding ways to correct bad behavior instead of just incarcerating folks and making it more likely for them to continue down the wrong path in the future. There are many other examples as well. But - ultimately I always vote Republican because of this question below. I simply cannot come up with a single answer to it:

Name one left wing Democrat objective that, if implemented, would allow you to earn and keep more money and/or that would make you freer.

I honestly cannot think of one. As such, I continue to vote a party ticket even though some of the Republican ideals make me upset or I don't agree with. The lesser of two evils, so to speak.

So - left wing friends - and anyone else who cares to join in - help me out here. Can you answer the question and provide supporting evidence of the response? I am honestly willing to listen.

Good questions and thanks for asking.

First, I'd suggest we consider the philosophical differences between the left and the right. Those on the left tend to look at society as a collective of citizens, all in this together, and feel the need to look out for and support each other. Especially those on the lower ends of the socioeconomic ladder. The right tends to approach things more from the standpoint of us being a collective of individuals, each with the power (and hopefully the drive) to be as successful or as unsuccessful as we want.

Second, let's consider the idea of trickle down economics that tends to find more support on the right. Remove constraints on the top 10%, they will prosper, and in turn will create prosperity and opportunity for the bottom 90%. The Left, on the other hand approaches it more from the trickle up economics perspective. Lift up that bottom 10% so they they are not a drain on society and they can prosper and contribute.

So why do you not personally see policies from the left that DIRECTLY (directly being the operative term here) put money back in your pocket? Because you are in the top 10% and their policies that provide direct aid or assistance are focused on the bottom 10%. Examples: School lunch programs, after school activities for kids, subsidized child care. None of these are designed to put money in your pocket but they are designed to lift a burden on low income parents who struggle to balance providing for their kids and working. The idea being if we can lift that burden so the parents can work and contribute, keep their kids fed and in school learning, society in general will ultimately benefit.

Just to randomly grab another: Farm subsidiary reform to help small, struggling farmers instead of channeling billions to the mega corporate farms. Doesn't put cash directly in your pocket but it does for smaller, struggling, farmers.

Given your tax bracket, I do struggle to find programs that would directly put cash in your pocket. Prescription drug price reform is one that comes to mind. But really, the "problem", or the reason you struggle to find Democratic policies that cash you out is largely because you are not on their radar as being a vulnerable member of our society.

Hope this helps shed some light on the subject. As always, thanks for the open and respectful dialog. Your posts are one of the few reasons I still come around these parts.
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      05-08-2019, 09:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Good questions and thanks for asking.

First, I'd suggest we consider the philosophical differences between the left and the right. Those on the left tend to look at society as a collective of citizens, all in this together, and feel the need to look out for and support each other. Especially those on the lower ends of the socioeconomic ladder. The right tends to approach things more from the standpoint of us being a collective of individuals, each with the power (and hopefully the drive) to be as successful or as unsuccessful as we want.

Second, let's consider the idea of trickle down economics that tends to find more support on the right. Remove constraints on the top 10%, they will prosper, and in turn will create prosperity and opportunity for the bottom 90%. The Left, on the other hand approaches it more from the trickle up economics perspective. Lift up that bottom 10% so they they are not a drain on society and they can prosper and contribute.

So why do you not personally see policies from the left that DIRECTLY (directly being the operative term here) put money back in your pocket? Because you are in the top 10% and their policies that provide direct aid or assistance are focused on the bottom 10%. Examples: School lunch programs, after school activities for kids, subsidized child care. None of these are designed to put money in your pocket but they are designed to lift a burden on low income parents who struggle to balance providing for their kids and working. The idea being if we can lift that burden so the parents can work and contribute, keep their kids fed and in school learning, society in general will ultimately benefit.

Just to randomly grab another: Farm subsidiary reform to help small, struggling farmers instead of channeling billions to the mega corporate farms. Doesn't put cash directly in your pocket but it does for smaller, struggling, farmers.

Given your tax bracket, I do struggle to find programs that would directly put cash in your pocket. Prescription drug price reform is one that comes to mind. But really, the "problem", or the reason you struggle to find Democratic policies that cash you out is largely because you are not on their radar as being a vulnerable member of our society.

Hope this helps shed some light on the subject. As always, thanks for the open and respectful dialog. Your posts are one of the few reasons I still come around these parts.

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      05-08-2019, 09:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Well, I didn't answer because I wasn't the target demographic.
I dunno...

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      05-08-2019, 09:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Given your tax bracket, I do struggle to find programs that would directly put cash in your pocket.
So, for the 80% of us that fall into neither end of the spectrum, what do we do beside keeping our nose to the grindstone and hoping the water level doesn't rise above said stone?
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      05-08-2019, 10:08 AM   #19
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I dunno...

Draper turned into a hippie towards the end...


Only after he got rich, though.
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      05-08-2019, 10:09 AM   #20
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One thing the Democratic party does very well is market their ideas and touch the feelings of others, particularly with the younger crowd. I remember being in college (2009ish) and liberal professors were shoving their beliefs down our throats. They were very good at selling us on the emotional part (struggling illegal immigrants, the lower class, equality, etc) but never told the whole story of how these ideas would be carried out and what it meant for citizens as a whole. If you question the whole idea of socialism and how it doesn't make sense to take from the hard working like you or I, and give to those who refuse to work, suddenly you get labeled as someone who possesses hatred and doubt. I remember a local news agency was interviewing students on campus asking why they supported certain candidates. None of them could actually name policies or ideas and why they were beneficial, they could only repeat the ideas they had been sold on. This was the case for both sides.

Neither political party has the benefit of the people in their minds. Those same idiots preaching income equality, socialism, no wall, etc, live in multi-million dollar gated homes and have probably never done an ounce of hard work in their lives.
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      05-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #21
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Only after he got rich, though.
Bingo...
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      05-08-2019, 10:52 AM   #22
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I would add tariffs and limit trade to help my individual business. Does this liberal idea still count when it came from our Republican President?

He added steel and aluminum tariffs, was good for the companies making steel and aluminum and bad for everyone else.
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