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      05-04-2019, 06:00 AM   #1
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Is Income Inequality Bad?

Iíve been thinking about this question for a while, because so many pundits, articles, etc start off with ďIncome inequality, which is a growing problem, ...Ē and never explain the premise. Why is it a problem?
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      05-04-2019, 06:01 AM   #2
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And then this pops up on my Apple feed:
https://apple.news/ADGfwmdSXTAuN4OmIrCGGHQ

Although Stossel says inequality is not bad, he merely asserts that, and doesn’t really explain why he is right and the other view is wrong.
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      05-04-2019, 06:05 AM   #3
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      05-04-2019, 06:28 AM   #4
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How does one get income equality anyway? We either bring in full on socialim and make everyone poor. Or we just throw billions of dollars at people and then wait for prices of goods and services to go sky high to even everything back out.
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      05-04-2019, 07:34 AM   #5
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Life is not fair, deal with it. Every American has the chance to pull themselves out of poverty, most do not want to put in the work.

Join the navy and never see any combat and then enjoy your free college tuition. 3 years to receive the GI Bill. 6 years to have the military repay your federally-backed student loans. Every year you serve you receive $4,500 in tuition assistance. $250/semester hour = ) classes/year)

You could be done will the military and school by age 23 and have a leg up on anyone who just went to college and did not serve or be an officer and have a military career. Why don't people want to do this? WORK.

Rather sit around and smoke dope and be a loser.
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      05-04-2019, 07:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Life is not fair, deal with it. Every American has the chance to pull themselves out of poverty, most do not want to put in the work.

Join the navy and never see any combat and then enjoy your free college tuition. 3 years to receive the GI Bill. 6 years to have the military repay your federally-backed student loans. Every year you serve you receive $4,500 in tuition assistance. $250/semester hour = ) classes/year)

You could be done will the military and school by age 23 and have a leg up on anyone who just went to college and did not serve or be an officer and have a military career. Why don't people want to do this? WORK.

Rather sit around and smoke dope and be a loser.
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      05-04-2019, 07:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Life is not fair, deal with it. Every American has the chance to pull themselves out of poverty, most do not want to put in the work.

Join the navy and never see any combat and then enjoy your free college tuition. 3 years to receive the GI Bill. 6 years to have the military repay your federally-backed student loans. Every year you serve you receive $4,500 in tuition assistance. $250/semester hour = ) classes/year)

You could be done will the military and school by age 23 and have a leg up on anyone who just went to college and did not serve or be an officer and have a military career. Why don't people want to do this? WORK.

Rather sit around and smoke dope and be a loser.
Yup thats pretty much what i did. Was nice going to college at age 23 with a boat load of real world experience and some maturity.
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      05-04-2019, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Life is not fair, deal with it. Every American has the chance to pull themselves out of poverty, most do not want to put in the work.

Join the navy and never see any combat and then enjoy your free college tuition. 3 years to receive the GI Bill. 6 years to have the military repay your federally-backed student loans. Every year you serve you receive $4,500 in tuition assistance. $250/semester hour = ) classes/year)

You could be done will the military and school by age 23 and have a leg up on anyone who just went to college and did not serve or be an officer and have a military career. Why don't people want to do this? WORK.

Rather sit around and smoke dope and be a loser.
This.

The Navy even has programs in Engineering, Law, and Medicine on both the civilian and military sides. I received a Civilian Engineering scholarship from The Navy which paid full tuition, books and all fees. I also gained practical experience in HVAC, Jet Propulsion, Aircraft Systems and Advanced Materials all as an undergrad. Had I stayed in the program I would have been responsible for working 2 years then free to do as I pleased.

I do not understand why more people don't do the research and get this done. Hundreds if not thousands of these go unused every year yet people go $250K to $500K in debt for an undergrad/advanced degree. My brother, my sister, my daughter and I all graduated with Zero Debt. It can be done if one does a little research.

Great post!
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      05-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #9
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Opportunity + work = a better life. Take work out of the equation and the equation fails.
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      05-04-2019, 09:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
This.

The Navy even has programs in Engineering, Law, and Medicine on both the civilian and military sides. I received a Civilian Engineering scholarship from The Navy which paid full tuition, books and all fees. I also gained practical experience in HVAC, Jet Propulsion, Aircraft Systems and Advanced Materials all as an undergrad. Had I stayed in the program I would have been responsible for working 2 years then free to do as I pleased.

I do not understand why more people don't do the research and get this done. Hundreds if not thousands of these go unused every year yet people go $250K to $500K in debt for an undergrad/advanced degree. My brother, my sister, my daughter and I all graduated with Zero Debt. It can be done if one does a little research.

Great post!

Because most of these out of shape soy sippers couldnt handle getting up at 0500 and being told what to do by a bunch of men that they label as having toxic masculinity. This is why they go to college and take up bs majors. Then they graduate with a huge debt and want the rest of us to pay it of for them. Oh hell some of them graduate broke, unemployable, and with a different gender.
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      05-04-2019, 09:54 AM   #11
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As a second generation immigrant with parents who came here and spoke zero English
I paid my way through school, worked odd jobs
Had a crappy broken down Honda Accord through college
Everyone here gets to start at the same line, but your finish line will vary
And that's all I can ask for
That is real equality
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      05-04-2019, 04:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
Iíve been thinking about this question for a while, because so many pundits, articles, etc start off with ďIncome inequality, which is a growing problem, ...Ē and never explain the premise. Why is it a problem?
It's an interesting and timely topic. Thanks for raising it.

IMO, the answer to your question is "no." Income inequality in and of itself is not necessarily bad. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, all make a gazillion more dollars than I make. There's income inequality between us. However, the income I make is proportional to the amount of work I do, the amount of talent I have, and the amount of risk I take. I live a comfortable life. I'm happy. So is our inequality bad? No I don't think so.

I think you need to look a few layers deeper to answer the question or whether income inequality is bad. Does the inequality come at the expense of others? For example, a super rich land owner paying sharecroppers just enough to survive but not enough to leave. Yes, that's not good. As for our own country, what has been the impact of the loss of manufacturing and other good paying blue-collar jobs as well as income stagnation over the past 20 years? it's created inequality on some levels. So while that inequality in and of itself is not bad, it's the forces that have created it that are the problem.
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      05-04-2019, 04:40 PM   #13
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i think at it's core its not bad... its a basis for capitalism...

the modern income inequality is somewhat a problem.... that happens when you have people making $9 an hour and people that are worth $120 billion
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      05-04-2019, 05:07 PM   #14
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Equality of opportunity is good.

Equality of outcome is bad because it requires authoritarianism to achieve, and removes the profit motive and other incentives which drive innovation, productivity, and self-fulfillment. It ultimately leads to universal misery.

We pretty much have equality of opportunity. Not perfectly so, but close enough. Any free society will have social problems and economic stratification. Freedom is not free. But it’s worth it.
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      05-04-2019, 05:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
Equality of opportunity is good.

Equality of outcome is bad because it requires authoritarianism to achieve, and removes the profit motive and other incentives which drive innovation, productivity, and self-fulfillment. It ultimately leads to universal misery.

We pretty much have equality of opportunity. Not perfectly so, but close enough. Any free society will have social problems and economic stratification. Freedom is not free. But it's worth it.
That's my point exactly. Income inequality is not bad but a loss of opportunity equality is bad. I'm not talking opportunity to make a billion dollars, just the simple opportunity to make a reasonable, honest, living. I think that opportunity equality is slipping away. Let's face it, not everyone is smart enough to go to college and land a high paying job. Not everyone is smart or skilled enough to learn a high paying trade like plumbing or to be an electrician. We have lots of people for whom a job on the assembly line putting widgets together is at the top of their capacity. As those jobs disappear so too do the opportunities thus creating an opportunity inequality (the real problem) that leads to the income inequality (the side effect).
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      05-04-2019, 05:21 PM   #16
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Only if its your spouse who doesnt make as much
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      05-04-2019, 05:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
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That's my point exactly. Income inequality is not bad but a loss of opportunity equality is bad. I'm not talking opportunity to make a billion dollars, just the simple opportunity to make a reasonable, honest, living. I think that opportunity equality is slipping away. Let's face it, not everyone is smart enough to go to college and land a high paying job. Not everyone is smart or skilled enough to learn a high paying trade like plumbing or to be an electrician. We have lots of people for whom a job on the assembly line putting widgets together is at the top of their capacity. As those jobs disappear so too do the opportunities thus creating an opportunity inequality (the real problem) that leads to the income inequality (the side effect).
I disagree to an extent. Where I live, there are "now hiring" and "help wanted" signs everywhere you look. They can't get people because they don't pay the wage that people today are willing to accept. Many people today want to be rich from the beginning without putting in the time or effort to get there.
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      05-04-2019, 05:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I disagree to an extent. Where I live, there are "now hiring" and "help wanted" signs everywhere you look. They can't get people because they don't pay the wage that people today are willing to accept. Many people today want to be rich from the beginning without putting in the time or effort to get there.
Agreed. I literally cannot get into my car and drive for just a few miles in any direction without seeing some kind of road construction. Businesses everywhere are hiring, and buildings are going up all over the place. Our economy is booming, anybody unemployed right now is unemployed by choice.
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      05-04-2019, 05:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
That's my point exactly. Income inequality is not bad but a loss of opportunity equality is bad. I'm not talking opportunity to make a billion dollars, just the simple opportunity to make a reasonable, honest, living. I think that opportunity equality is slipping away. Let's face it, not everyone is smart enough to go to college and land a high paying job. Not everyone is smart or skilled enough to learn a high paying trade like plumbing or to be an electrician. We have lots of people for whom a job on the assembly line putting widgets together is at the top of their capacity. As those jobs disappear so too do the opportunities thus creating an opportunity inequality (the real problem) that leads to the income inequality (the side effect).
I disagree to an extent. Where I live, there are "now hiring" and "help wanted" signs everywhere you look. They can't get people because they don't pay the wage that people today are willing to accept. Many people today want to be rich from the beginning without putting in the time or effort to get there.
It's a complex issue and local economies certainly can be different. Lots of help wanted signs here in Seattle too but it's because the unemployment rate is below 3%. Lots of jobs and not enough people to fill them. We needed a couple temps to help clear out a warehouse we closed. Couldn't get one. The two temp agencies we used to use went out of business and a third we called just laughed and said they struggle to get people who want to work temp jobs as most have full time placement.

I think we can agree that in our country there will always be the need for low skill, menial, work. Burger flippers, gas pumpers, newspaper delivery, etc. the question is can/should one be able to make a living wage from those jobs?
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      05-04-2019, 05:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobiggens View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
I disagree to an extent. Where I live, there are "now hiring" and "help wanted" signs everywhere you look. They can't get people because they don't pay the wage that people today are willing to accept. Many people today want to be rich from the beginning without putting in the time or effort to get there.
Agreed. I literally cannot get into my car and drive for just a few miles in any direction without seeing some kind of road construction. Businesses everywhere are hiring, and buildings are going up all over the place. Our economy is booming, anybody unemployed right now is unemployed by choice.
Well the discussion at hand is one of income inequality, meaning these folks have jobs and an income. It's not a matter of employed vs. unemployed.
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      05-04-2019, 05:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Burger flippers, gas pumpers, newspaper delivery, etc. the question is can/should one be able to make a living wage from those jobs?
No.
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      05-04-2019, 05:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
It's a complex issue and local economies certainly can be different. Lots of help wanted signs here in Seattle too but it's because the unemployment rate is below 3%. Lots of jobs and not enough people to fill them. We needed a couple temps to help clear out a warehouse we closed. Couldn't get one. The two temp agencies we used to use went out of business and a third we called just laughed and said they struggle to get people who want to work temp jobs as most have full time placement.

I think we can agree that in our country there will always be the need for low skill, menial, work. Burger flippers, gas pumpers, newspaper delivery, etc. the question is can/should one be able to make a living wage from those jobs?
That is a completely different question from the one about income inequality. The problems with your question becomes "what is a living wage?" and "what is the standard of living?" or "Should the burger flipper make the same wage as the CEO of Virgin Airlines?"
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