BMW wipes out dealerships in Europe

cheveux · 05-31-2022, 05:37 AM

Aticle: https://observador.pt/2022/05/30/bmw...ios-na-europa/ (IN PORTUGUESE)

A friend of mine is responsible for the BMW website in Portugal had already warned me. BMW is moving towards changing the way it sells cars, to a model identical to Tesla. They are 100% online purchases without interaction with the seller.
What do you think about this? I personally find it ridiculous. I think an investment in a car, with high values, should always be a deal made with human connection, someone we can trust.

For bmw, dealers become agents and salespeople become "car specialists" who only deliver cars.

What do you think?
Will this at least translate into lower prices?

Tuxedo · 05-31-2022, 07:50 AM

have you heard of Amazon and the way you buy everything nowadays... knew my BMW sales job was dead the moment Silicon Valley startups have apps to replace me. Franchise rights keeps me around for now.

When automated cars come it's subscription based world so owning a car is obsolete too, I think it's a good thing with more freedom, with car costs more like a utility bill.

BMWCCA1 · 05-31-2022, 08:13 AM

Plenty here will applaud this development—until they see it in action and try to order a car, or get one fixed!

I grew up visiting a BMW dealership on my bicycle before I was old enough to drive. The owner was a German who sold Porsche and BMW before they really had a US dealer network. When Porsche/VW came to him to discuss taking on their Audi line and dumping BMW, he dumped Porsche instead. Few here will be able to remember when dealerships were owned by the operators who were local to the store and lived in the vicinity. I'd show up on my Schwinn and the owner would take me for rides in the 2002ti he'd just imported, or take me into the shop to see how they worked on the cars and what they looked like from inside and underneath. It was the enthusiasm for the product and the open, friendly nature of the owner that instilled my life-long love for BMW. The only thing similar today is the few BMW motorcycle dealerships under local ownership with the owner in the store. You can't replicate this in an on-line experience. But then there's really nothing left worth replicating in the current BMW Car Dealership model, with very few exceptions. More of the Wal-Marting of America. We will get what we deserve!!

Yeineken · 05-31-2022, 08:19 AM

IMO this a win for the consumer as we won't have to deal with ridiculous dealer markups and dealers who only order cars with every single option ticked to bring in a higher price tag. Majority of people who care about cars usually custom order their cars and deal with the wait time regardless, so i see no issues with the "Tesla" method.

DocL · 05-31-2022, 09:36 AM

So no more hard sales pitch from the salesperson about the paint protection plan for $900 that they already put on the car? I loved calling them out on that BS.

Mavus · 05-31-2022, 09:45 AM

not surprising considering they are using common designs and parts more than ever and decreasing manufacturing cost. High vol high margins by controlling supply and assembly cost. Then they will sell options thru subscription service like heated seats or ambient lighting as an example.

Prices will stay strong until supply and demand are in balance again. Dealerships will need to quickly adjust their model to design center for customers to select options. Service centers may be separate and run by manufacturers.

It's all about $$$ grab.

nerdogray · 05-31-2022, 10:23 AM

Anything that hurts Sonic Automotive gets a big thumbs up from me.. even at my own expense.

happyjack · 05-31-2022, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuxedo

have you heard of Amazon and the way you buy everything nowadays... knew my BMW sales job was dead the moment Silicon Valley startups have apps to replace me. Franchise rights keeps me around for now.

When automated cars come it's subscription based world so owning a car is obsolete too, I think it's a good thing with more freedom, with car costs more like a utility bill.

what about CPO though? half of the bimmers i've owned were CPO, and it's my understanding that dealerships and sales staff make much more per transaction on CPO / used. seems like a win for both sides to simplify the lower margin, new car transactions...especially for high volume models?

shawnhayes · 05-31-2022, 10:58 AM

I don't own a Tesla for just this reason. I also hate buying a car that doesn't have a local repair shop. So I don't do it unless I have to. For the kind of cars that I like, they're weird and esoteric enough that something goes wrong a lot.

Losing this won't be good.

Shawn

wtwo3 · 05-31-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveux

Will this at least translate into lower prices?

No.

In fact, during times when the market is stable, this will result in HIGHER prices for savvy shoppers since this effectively eliminates any sort of negotiating power for the consumer.

skyline408 · 05-31-2022, 11:31 AM

I'm all for it.

SteveinArizona · 05-31-2022, 12:02 PM

I have mixed feelings. I have a deposit down on a Lucid Air Pure but I have a good relationship with my local BMW dealership (which is only a couple of miles away) and view that as a BMW advantage. I actually have the IX 50 as my second current choice behind the Lucid (which needs to get its software act together). Now if BMW could only get rid of the ugly (and now obviously useless) front grille.............

Anytime anything goes wrong with my BMW they always say come right in and they have a loaner for me.

KMP259 · 05-31-2022, 12:03 PM

Germans don’t believe in sales people....they only like engineers..

Efthreeoh · 05-31-2022, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Plenty here will applaud this development—until they see it in action and try to order a car, or get one fixed!

I grew up visiting a BMW dealership on my bicycle before I was old enough to drive. The owner was a German who sold Porsche and BMW before they really had a US dealer network. When Porsche/VW came to him to discuss taking on their Audi line and dumping BMW, he dumped Porsche instead. Few here will be able to remember when dealerships were owned by the operators who were local to the store and lived in the vicinity. I'd show up on my Schwinn and the owner would take me for rides in the 2002ti he'd just imported, or take me into the shop to see how they worked on the cars and what they looked like from inside and underneath. It was the enthusiasm for the product and the open, friendly nature of the owner that instilled my life-long love for BMW. The only thing similar today is the few BMW motorcycle dealerships under local ownership with the owner in the store. You can't replicate this in an on-line experience. But then there's really nothing left worth replicating in the current BMW Car Dealership model, with very few exceptions. More of the Wal-Marting of America. We will get what we deserve!!

100% agree. The Tesla sales model does not scale to an operating vehicle fleet the size that the legacy domestic and foreign manufacturers have in the USA. Dealership are critical to the logistics of supporting the tens of millions of cars each manufacturer has on the roads.

nerdogray · 05-31-2022, 12:15 PM

I had an SA at the local Sonic-owned BMW handing off information about my M5 to a local wrap installer who had done $5k in damage to a brand new car... and did a horrible job on the wrap after having it over a month. He was supposed to encapsulate everything but ended up just doing cutouts.. and he even installed those horribly on top of deforming the front speakers, leaving door panels hanging off, not reinstalling the rear bumper and leaving it jutting out, etc. Complete con artist that had a network of reach-arounds going with other service providers (like tint). Anyway, let's call my SA "Drew." I managed to pull off my front bumper cover due to a piece of rebar from a curb while backing out of a spot. Took it in to get fixed and suddenly this wrap installer... let's call him "Vinny..." seizes on this opportunity and tries to tell the bank I was the one that caused all the damage (I had to open a dispute to force him to make it right). So how did he find out... and how did he find out so fast? My SA looking out for my best interests... yea. Local dealer is great for service. Service manager even went to bat for me and wrote a letter and signed it stating the wrap installer did the damage. But tack on to that all of the ego and complete unwillingness to follow through or even contact me about getting another M5 or an M8? Yea, no. Drew and friends need to learn some humility and grow a moral backbone. Bank ended up siding with me on the dispute, but these chuckleheads made my new M5 experience a real stressor. And Sonic has a stranglehold on all exotics locally... well ones I can afford anyway. Also had to file a BBB complaint to get my money back for canceled maintenance.

TMI. TL;DR. Sonic sucks and made me hate dealers.

unfoundnemo · 05-31-2022, 12:17 PM

If we didn't know more about the cars than a vast majority of the CAs out there, I might feel bad...

I'm sure there are more, but I know of maybe 5 good CAs in the US. 2 of which are enthusiasts you could talk to about any generation, and the others actually put in the effort to know some real information.

There are quite a few good SAs out there, though.

Glen e · 05-31-2022, 12:44 PM

Just realize:
There will be no negotiating
You will pay what is on the website
There won’t be anybody to talk to about the product
And did I mention there will be no negotiating?

p0p · 05-31-2022, 12:45 PM

Sad but it's already like this. What you see online is what you're going to pay.
Even CPO cars. When I picked up my f30 last October; I paid what was listed, but had to fight just to get $500 off because of BMW Loyalty program (done at financing)

A dealer in PA would not even give me $100 off, even though I would've had to drive 4hrs to pick the car up.

The good old days of getting $10+K off sticker is gone.
When I got the X1 (2018) for the wife they gave me 12k off sticker.
I live in the DMV and there are like 7 dealership within a 50miles radius. So they all fight to keep customers and offer good deals like that. But now no more with this new way.

ScullyD · 05-31-2022, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveux

Aticle: https://observador.pt/2022/05/30/bmw...ios-na-europa/ (IN PORTUGUESE)

A friend of mine is responsible for the BMW website in Portugal had already warned me. BMW is moving towards changing the way it sells cars, to a model identical to Tesla. They are 100% online purchases without interaction with the seller.
What do you think about this? I personally find it ridiculous. I think an investment in a car, with high values, should always be a deal made with human connection, someone we can trust.

For bmw, dealers become agents and salespeople become "car specialists" who only deliver cars.

What do you think?
Will this at least translate into lower prices?

The dealership model is extremely archaic, and I don't think you need human interaction to close a car deal. The trust i have is in BMW as a brand.

Now some of the sales people i work with are amazing ambassadors of that brand and I think BMW needs to recognize those people and make them part of the corporate model. Those people do a great job of bringing people into the brand and keeping them there.

There are also BMW sales people who just look at people as a transaction, and they aren't great ambassadors of the brand at all.

ScullyD · 05-31-2022, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen e

Just realize:
There will be no negotiating
You will pay what is on the website
There won’t be anybody to talk to about the product
And did I mention there will be no negotiating?

When have you negotiated in the past 5-10 years for anything thats actually worth what its list price says? Cars worth buying have always gone for MSRP. Cars that get $10k discounts are actually worth even less than that $10k discount in the end.

The model of getting a discount on a car is gone, but hopefully that also leads to more products that people want to pay for/own as opposed to things dealers discount cause no one really wants.

E_R_S_M4_Comp · 05-31-2022, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheveux

Aticle: https://observador.pt/2022/05/30/bmw...ios-na-europa/ (IN PORTUGUESE)

A friend of mine is responsible for the BMW website in Portugal had already warned me. BMW is moving towards changing the way it sells cars, to a model identical to Tesla. They are 100% online purchases without interaction with the seller.
What do you think about this? I personally find it ridiculous. I think an investment in a car, with high values, should always be a deal made with human connection, someone we can trust.

For bmw, dealers become agents and salespeople become "car specialists" who only deliver cars.

What do you think?
Will this at least translate into lower prices?

Given my recent experiences with the local dealership, I would welcome not having to deal with their sales people.

M8Bimmer · 05-31-2022, 01:34 PM

I like the human touch. I can always walk away if they are jerks. My first and only BMW purchase went quite well. I saved $8k with a Salesman.
Yes some are assholes but those are the ones you DON'T give the sale too.
I guess I'm just on the fence on this somewhat but lean towards live interaction.
old school way I guess.
I bet BMW wants to go direct....greedy SOB's

05-31-2022, 05:37 AM	#1
cheveux Second Lieutenant 416 Rep 206 Posts Drives: 2014 M4 Join Date: May 2018 Location: Portugal iTrader: (0)	BMW wipes out dealerships in Europe Aticle: https://observador.pt/2022/05/30/bmw...ios-na-europa/ (IN PORTUGUESE) A friend of mine is responsible for the BMW website in Portugal had already warned me. BMW is moving towards changing the way it sells cars, to a model identical to Tesla. They are 100% online purchases without interaction with the seller. What do you think about this? I personally find it ridiculous. I think an investment in a car, with high values, should always be a deal made with human connection, someone we can trust. For bmw, dealers become agents and salespeople become "car specialists" who only deliver cars. What do you think? Will this at least translate into lower prices?
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05-31-2022, 07:50 AM	#2
Tuxedo Bowties r cool ▶:◀ 1473 Rep 818 Posts Drives: 09' 128i MT e88, 24'G05 X5 50e Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 128i e88 [10.00]	have you heard of Amazon and the way you buy everything nowadays... knew my BMW sales job was dead the moment Silicon Valley startups have apps to replace me. Franchise rights keeps me around for now. When automated cars come it's subscription based world so owning a car is obsolete too, I think it's a good thing with more freedom, with car costs more like a utility bill.
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05-31-2022, 08:13 AM	#3
BMWCCA1 BMW Owner Since 1971 2486 Rep 1,513 Posts Drives: 1964 700 Sport Cabriolet Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Central Virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2013 BMW 128i [10.00]	Plenty here will applaud this development—until they see it in action and try to order a car, or get one fixed! I grew up visiting a BMW dealership on my bicycle before I was old enough to drive. The owner was a German who sold Porsche and BMW before they really had a US dealer network. When Porsche/VW came to him to discuss taking on their Audi line and dumping BMW, he dumped Porsche instead. Few here will be able to remember when dealerships were owned by the operators who were local to the store and lived in the vicinity. I'd show up on my Schwinn and the owner would take me for rides in the 2002ti he'd just imported, or take me into the shop to see how they worked on the cars and what they looked like from inside and underneath. It was the enthusiasm for the product and the open, friendly nature of the owner that instilled my life-long love for BMW. The only thing similar today is the few BMW motorcycle dealerships under local ownership with the owner in the store. You can't replicate this in an on-line experience. But then there's really nothing left worth replicating in the current BMW Car Dealership model, with very few exceptions. More of the Wal-Marting of America. We will get what we deserve!!
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05-31-2022, 08:19 AM	#4
Yeineken Colonel 1407 Rep 2,148 Posts Drives: '11 135i M Sport Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Delmarva Peninsula iTrader: (3) Garage List '11 135i [8.20] '16 Ford Hatchback [10.00] '15 X5 [10.00]	IMO this a win for the consumer as we won't have to deal with ridiculous dealer markups and dealers who only order cars with every single option ticked to bring in a higher price tag. Majority of people who care about cars usually custom order their cars and deal with the wait time regardless, so i see no issues with the "Tesla" method. __________________ Pyrat Clone
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05-31-2022, 09:36 AM	#5
DocL Captain 2085 Rep 940 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Comp 6spd Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Delray Beach iTrader: (2)	So no more hard sales pitch from the salesperson about the paint protection plan for $900 that they already put on the car? I loved calling them out on that BS. __________________ 2018 F80 M3. YMB/BLK. ZCP. Three Pedals. "Education will never be as expensive as ignorance."
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05-31-2022, 09:45 AM	#6
Mavus Colonel 2266 Rep 2,872 Posts Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: PA iTrader: (9)	not surprising considering they are using common designs and parts more than ever and decreasing manufacturing cost. High vol high margins by controlling supply and assembly cost. Then they will sell options thru subscription service like heated seats or ambient lighting as an example. Prices will stay strong until supply and demand are in balance again. Dealerships will need to quickly adjust their model to design center for customers to select options. Service centers may be separate and run by manufacturers. It's all about $$$ grab.
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05-31-2022, 10:23 AM	#7
nerdogray Captain 1464 Rep 718 Posts Drives: 2023 M5 Competition Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: TN iTrader: (0)	Anything that hurts Sonic Automotive gets a big thumbs up from me.. even at my own expense.
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05-31-2022, 10:58 AM	#9
shawnhayes Major 1951 Rep 1,401 Posts Drives: 23X5E,24M3 CS,24 i4, 25 M4 CS Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	I don't own a Tesla for just this reason. I also hate buying a car that doesn't have a local repair shop. So I don't do it unless I have to. For the kind of cars that I like, they're weird and esoteric enough that something goes wrong a lot. Losing this won't be good. Shawn
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05-31-2022, 11:31 AM	#11
skyline408 Major 1611 Rep 1,263 Posts Drives: 2023 G80 M3 2022 F95 X5M Join Date: May 2013 Location: Silicon Valley, CA iTrader: (1)	I'm all for it.
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05-31-2022, 12:02 PM	#12
SteveinArizona Brigadier General 3099 Rep 4,210 Posts Drives: BMW 530e Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Greater Phoenix iTrader: (0)	I have mixed feelings. I have a deposit down on a Lucid Air Pure but I have a good relationship with my local BMW dealership (which is only a couple of miles away) and view that as a BMW advantage. I actually have the IX 50 as my second current choice behind the Lucid (which needs to get its software act together). Now if BMW could only get rid of the ugly (and now obviously useless) front grille............. Anytime anything goes wrong with my BMW they always say come right in and they have a loaner for me.
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05-31-2022, 12:03 PM	#13
KMP259 Enlisted Member 54 Rep 35 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M6 Competition Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Gurnee, IL. iTrader: (0)	Germans don’t believe in sales people....they only like engineers..
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05-31-2022, 12:15 PM	#15
nerdogray Captain 1464 Rep 718 Posts Drives: 2023 M5 Competition Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: TN iTrader: (0)	I had an SA at the local Sonic-owned BMW handing off information about my M5 to a local wrap installer who had done $5k in damage to a brand new car... and did a horrible job on the wrap after having it over a month. He was supposed to encapsulate everything but ended up just doing cutouts.. and he even installed those horribly on top of deforming the front speakers, leaving door panels hanging off, not reinstalling the rear bumper and leaving it jutting out, etc. Complete con artist that had a network of reach-arounds going with other service providers (like tint). Anyway, let's call my SA "Drew." I managed to pull off my front bumper cover due to a piece of rebar from a curb while backing out of a spot. Took it in to get fixed and suddenly this wrap installer... let's call him "Vinny..." seizes on this opportunity and tries to tell the bank I was the one that caused all the damage (I had to open a dispute to force him to make it right). So how did he find out... and how did he find out so fast? My SA looking out for my best interests... yea. Local dealer is great for service. Service manager even went to bat for me and wrote a letter and signed it stating the wrap installer did the damage. But tack on to that all of the ego and complete unwillingness to follow through or even contact me about getting another M5 or an M8? Yea, no. Drew and friends need to learn some humility and grow a moral backbone. Bank ended up siding with me on the dispute, but these chuckleheads made my new M5 experience a real stressor. And Sonic has a stranglehold on all exotics locally... well ones I can afford anyway. Also had to file a BBB complaint to get my money back for canceled maintenance. TMI. TL;DR. Sonic sucks and made me hate dealers.
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05-31-2022, 12:17 PM	#16
unfoundnemo Colonel 1962 Rep 2,030 Posts Drives: 2022 i4 M50 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Garage List 2025 BMW iX [0.00] 2022 BMW i4 M50 [0.00]	If we didn't know more about the cars than a vast majority of the CAs out there, I might feel bad... I'm sure there are more, but I know of maybe 5 good CAs in the US. 2 of which are enthusiasts you could talk to about any generation, and the others actually put in the effort to know some real information. There are quite a few good SAs out there, though. __________________ Current: 2022 i4 M50 \| 2025 I20 iX Gone: 2022 G07 X7 \| 2020 F92 M8 \| 2020 G07 X7 \| 2018 F80 M3 \| 2017 F15 X5 \| 2016 F16 X6 \| 2015 F36 4 series GC
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05-31-2022, 12:44 PM	#17
Glen e Retired from BMWNA 199 Rep 184 Posts Drives: ‘21 X2 m35i Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Fort Lauderdale iTrader: (0)	Just realize: There will be no negotiating You will pay what is on the website There won’t be anybody to talk to about the product And did I mention there will be no negotiating? __________________ Glen Ft Lauderdale '23 228i GC
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05-31-2022, 12:45 PM	#18
p0p Ninja 173 Rep 149 Posts Drives: N54 & B58 Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: NOVA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 F30 340i x-drive [10.00] 2020 G07 x7 40i [0.00] 2010 E92 335i x-drive [0.00]	Sad but it's already like this. What you see online is what you're going to pay. Even CPO cars. When I picked up my f30 last October; I paid what was listed, but had to fight just to get $500 off because of BMW Loyalty program (done at financing) A dealer in PA would not even give me $100 off, even though I would've had to drive 4hrs to pick the car up. The good old days of getting $10+K off sticker is gone. When I got the X1 (2018) for the wife they gave me 12k off sticker. I live in the DMV and there are like 7 dealership within a 50miles radius. So they all fight to keep customers and offer good deals like that. But now no more with this new way.
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05-31-2022, 01:34 PM	#22
M8Bimmer Not a good Canadian sheep! 1387 Rep 1,220 Posts Drives: BMW M8 Competition Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Ontario Canada iTrader: (0)	I like the human touch. I can always walk away if they are jerks. My first and only BMW purchase went quite well. I saved $8k with a Salesman. Yes some are assholes but those are the ones you DON'T give the sale too. I guess I'm just on the fence on this somewhat but lean towards live interaction. old school way I guess. I bet BMW wants to go direct....greedy SOB's
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