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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 81 31.89%
Trump Trump-umphant. 87 34.25%
Inclusive 18 7.09%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 29.13%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 254. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-22-2020, 11:18 AM   #5853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Biden entered the race on April 25th. The call was exactly three months later. The aid was ordered to be held in June.

Also:
Partially redacted OMB emails released to the Center for Public Integrity on December 20 showed that Duffey initiated action to freeze the Ukrainian aid about 90 minutes after the July 25 Trump-Zelensky call, writing to OMB and Pentagon officials, "given the sensitive nature of the request, I appreciate your keeping that information closely held to those who need to know to execute direction."
The aid was approves in September 2018
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      01-22-2020, 11:19 AM   #5854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
- Why do we lack hard evidence?

- Why did the administration block all of the attempts by the House to subpoena supporting documents?

- Why have cabinet level officials who were with the POTUS during the calls been barred from testifying?

- Why did the POTUS dodge the invite from the House to testify or submit written accounts?

- Why did the Senate just vote to hear from no material witnesses?

The general tone and direction of argument on this forum blows me away. I see folks railing against the impeachment process, stating that we have no evidence and haven't even heard from anyone who was actually with the POTUS. Then I see many of these same people supporting the process of dodging subpoenas and barring material witnesses from testifying. Does no one see this is as textbook cognitive dissonance?
Why didn't the democrats follow discovery, due process, and general request for the courts?

The accuse has their rights and they used them the prosecutors are in breach of normal conduct.
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      01-22-2020, 11:32 AM   #5855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Because POTUS gets to run the Executive Branch not under the control of the majority party in the House. The Congress and Executive Branch are co-equal branches of government. This is US Government basics. Maybe you didn't take US Govt 101, or were taught by some Leftist professor...

Not when he is actively extorting a foriegn government with Congressionaly mandated assistance.
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      01-22-2020, 11:32 AM   #5856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Didn't bother to read?

I'll help you with some Cliffs Notes.

Yes it is from Republicans.
Yes, they seem to be the only adults in the room who are extremely concerned about tomorrow and not stuck in today and yesterday.
Yes, they outlined the down the road living hell that this partisan impeachment will most certainly lead to.

The dems don't give two shites about the future impact because GET TRUMP is embroidered on their towels.

Take it easy.
Yes, I read it. I simply didn't take the time to Google every state's AG to check party affiliation.

It appears my guess was pretty accurate, though.

So, a bunch of State AGs, who are all Republicans, and serve in Republican states, support Trump in this impeachment? Stop the press!

Who would be surprised by this?
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      01-22-2020, 11:34 AM   #5857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
The aid was approves in September 2018
AFTER the White House legal team briefed the administration about the Whistle Blower complaint. Allegedly.
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      01-22-2020, 11:36 AM   #5858
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It says 2018?
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      01-22-2020, 11:37 AM   #5859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Why didn't the democrats follow discovery, due process, and general request for the courts?

The accuse has their rights and they used them the prosecutors are in breach of normal conduct.
Because going through the courts to get a decision on which witnesses wouldn't be shielded by Executive Privilege would have likely taken past Nov for decisions and the Dems wouldn't get to hit Trump over the head with impeachment then.

It's pretty obvious.

Why didn't Trump allow any of them to testify, if they were going to exonerate him and his actions?
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      01-22-2020, 11:38 AM   #5860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
It says 2018?
Sorry, I read that as "released" and not "approved" and skipped right over the year.

Not sure what his point was re: the timing of the approval.
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      01-22-2020, 11:42 AM   #5861
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Dont know how that factors in either
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      01-22-2020, 11:44 AM   #5862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Because going through the courts to get a decision on which witnesses wouldn't be shielded by Executive Privilege would have likely taken past Nov for decisions and the Dems wouldn't get to hit Trump over the head with impeachment then.

It's pretty obvious.

Why didn't Trump allow any of them to testify, if they were going to exonerate him and his actions?
Why would you take the chance? I would use what legal means I can to avoid conviction in any other case.
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      01-22-2020, 11:48 AM   #5863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Because going through the courts to get a decision on which witnesses wouldn't be shielded by Executive Privilege would have likely taken past Nov for decisions and the Dems wouldn't get to hit Trump over the head with impeachment then.

It's pretty obvious.

Why didn't Trump allow any of them to testify, if they were going to exonerate him and his actions?
From public servants who have forgotten more about the law than you, myself and 99% of the people on this forum combined.
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      01-22-2020, 11:50 AM   #5864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Why would you take the chance? I would use what legal means I can to avoid conviction in any other case.
Take what chance? That they would choose to lie and NOT provide the information that would exonerate you?
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      01-22-2020, 11:52 AM   #5865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
From public servants who have forgotten more about the law than you, myself and 99% of the people on this forum combined.
I understand the idea behind, and the importance of, Executive Privilege.

The Nixon impeachment also established that blanket privilege was a no-go.

That still doesn't answer the question I posed, however.
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      01-22-2020, 11:58 AM   #5866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
I understand the idea behind, and the importance of, Executive Privilege.

The Nixon impeachment also established that blanket privilege was a no-go.

That still doesn't answer the question I posed, however.
Here's the answer: You don't have to prove innocence...even in that forum. Guilt must be PROVEN. Thus far, it hasn't been. Not even close. All conjecture in its worst form. That is what the trial in the senate is charged to accomplish.
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      01-22-2020, 12:00 PM   #5867
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What a circus they are in. I am enjoying, watching, and more importantly waiting what new EVIDENCE these "Managers" can bring to the table. Trying to make my tax $$ worth.
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      01-22-2020, 12:04 PM   #5868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Here's the answer: You don't have to prove innocence...even in that forum. Guilt must be PROVEN. Thus far, it hasn't been. Not even close. All conjecture in its worst form. That is what the trial in the senate is charged to accomplish.
Here is how I explain to some of my people around the office.

In any sport that I know of on this planet, you need to score point(s) to win a game. Scoring is an offensive move. Defense CAN win you a game only AFTER you score more point(s) than your opponent.

I am glad most of them understand the analogy, but of course there are always some who don't for whatever reasons.
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      01-22-2020, 12:06 PM   #5869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Take what chance? That they would choose to lie and NOT provide the information that would exonerate you?
Dont need to lie or say anything. Case needs to be made by the accuser, trump is under no obligation to hell incriminate himself. Face it, big fail. Argue all you want nothing to see.
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      01-22-2020, 12:14 PM   #5870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
The aid was approves in September 2018
That's pretty misleading. Yes, the funds were added to the budget in September 2018.

"The administration notified Congress in February 2019 and May 2019 that it intended to release this aid to Ukraine, with the Defense Department certifying that Ukraine had made sufficient progress in fighting corruption. Despite the notifications to Congress, in June 2019, the Trump administration placed military aid to Ukraine on hold."
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      01-22-2020, 12:15 PM   #5871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Here's the answer: You don't have to prove innocence...even in that forum. Guilt must be PROVEN. Thus far, it hasn't been. Not even close. All conjecture in its worst form. That is what the trial in the senate is charged to accomplish.
That is 100% true.

However, this isn't a court of law. Since the Senate is never going to convict, it's not even a Congressional "court". What this really is, is the court of public opinion. OJ was "not guilty", too.

If I was accused of something and I had witnesses that could clear my name, I'd be doing everything I could to get them on the stand.
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      01-22-2020, 12:16 PM   #5872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Dont need to lie or say anything. Case needs to be made by the accuser, trump is under no obligation to hell incriminate himself. Face it, big fail. Argue all you want nothing to see.
Oh, I faced the fact that the House was going to rush this and the Senate was never going to convict long ago.

Unfortunate timing, but it is what it is.
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      01-22-2020, 12:18 PM   #5873
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I think I liked it better when I didn't pay attention to any of this shitshow.
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      01-22-2020, 01:03 PM   #5874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Because going through the courts to get a decision on which witnesses wouldn't be shielded by Executive Privilege would have likely taken past Nov for decisions and the Dems wouldn't get to hit Trump over the head with impeachment then.

It's pretty obvious.

Why didn't Trump allow any of them to testify, if they were going to exonerate him and his actions?
Legal process shouldn't be disregarded because it not convenient for the prosecutor

You also have the right to remain silent and not to incriminate yourself plus he president so executive privilege. No matter how you spin it Trump in the right in this matter and the democrata are absolutely in the wrong.
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