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      11-07-2019, 04:03 PM   #1
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Los Angeles firefighter earned $360,000 in overtime last year

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...me/2516251001/

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate their dedication and effort being a firefighter and working in the LE, but earning OT at this rate is making me sick. I also love living in California, but this love seems to be getting weaker.

We have been paying very high state taxes (income, property, sales, etc...) and yet we have so much mess going on (including these wildfire that happen more often - not a thread to argue if these wildfire are caused by global warming or mismanagement of the state gov).

What you all think about this sad state? Rant away!
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      11-07-2019, 04:26 PM   #2
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That is a ridiculous amount of money.
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      11-07-2019, 04:26 PM   #3
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Good for him, and thank you for his and his colleagues’ bravery.
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      11-07-2019, 04:30 PM   #4
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This is why, when I retired ... I moved !
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      11-07-2019, 04:40 PM   #5
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Doing the math would have had to average over 15 hours a day, for every single day that year. Sure pal...
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      11-07-2019, 05:06 PM   #6
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While it's an attention grabbing headline, overall, OT pay only was 10.9% of payroll costs. You could argue they should hire more to bring down OT costs and reduce burnout from overtime, but with pretty generous pensions that most can take at age 50 (w/20+ years of service), more employees mean more retirement costs that would exceed the cost of overtime even at those eye-popping dollar amounts.

There were plenty of articles a few years back about firefighters or LEOs taking their pension and then signing up with an agency in a nearby city and then getting pretty good salaries plus a hefty pension.

Can't fault them for working the system to maximize their earnings. It's a tough job, grueling work, and dangerous to boot.

Some ways to reduce costs would be to staff a bit more to avoid overtime/reduce burnout, while also reducing pension benefits or pushing out the eligibility age, keeping disability benefits generous, and have clauses to suspend pension draws if fully employed before say age 65.
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      11-07-2019, 06:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1et View Post
Good for his pocketbook, and thank you for his and his colleaguesí bravery but not so much his gouging of tax money.
ftfy
I know law enforcement types stick together but what's right is right, etc.
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      11-07-2019, 06:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
ftfy
I know law enforcement types stick together but what's right is right, etc.
Donít call the FD then when your house is on fire or the PD if someone steals your car.
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      11-07-2019, 06:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Donít call the FD then when your house is on fire or the PD if someone steals your car.
You're right i should expect gouging by the FD.
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      11-07-2019, 06:33 PM   #10
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I'm ok with that. those guys risk their lives on every call they go on.
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      11-07-2019, 06:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
You're right i should expect gouging by the FD.
Then become a Fire fighter/Cop or move, but quit crying. Half your state burns down every year now and half you guys cry about taxes. You have bigger problems to worry about.
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      11-07-2019, 07:00 PM   #12
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There's a "loophole" and people are using it to their advantage.

It's not illegal. If I wanted to complain I can either fight for legislation to change it or become a firefighter.

I'd rather have a firefighter making that type of money rather than a real estate agent.
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      11-07-2019, 07:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C View Post
Doing the math would have had to average over 15 hours a day, for every single day that year. Sure pal...
Actually, doing the math:

Regular work year is 2080 hours
+
Claimed 5,616 hours of overtime
=
Total work hours in 1 year: 7696
-
total hours in a year 8760
=
1064 hours of free time for the year
/365 days
This guy had ~3 hours free time a day

Maybe he was on duty at the fire house for those hours, including sleeping?
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      11-07-2019, 07:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBO8 View Post
Actually, doing the math:

Regular work year is 2080 hours
+
Claimed 5,616 hours of overtime
=
Total work hours in 1 year: 7696
-
total hours in a year 8760
=
1064 hours of free time for the year
/365 days
This guy had ~3 hours free time a day

Maybe it was a leap year?
Yeah I noticed this after i did the quick math. that was just his OT hours Well done to the firefighter for his brave work. I'm just happy he didn't collapse working 21 hours a day for the entire year. Poor fellow. Maybe we should compensate him more?
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      11-07-2019, 07:59 PM   #15
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Whoever is hating on this guy's pay, get over it - not like he stole this money. Good for him and whoever else that can acquire a good pay - it's not like he was dealing drugs or some criminal activity. No need to be negative or jealous. Also not every fire fighter gets this pay. The fires in California have been awful, not to mention the long term health issues from being a fire fighter especially in CA.

My thoughts on this "sad state" is I'll be here forever, whoever dislikes it there's 49 other states for you guys to reside in.
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      11-07-2019, 08:32 PM   #16
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this is the effect of poor management, they need to hire more people. obviously there isn't enough people to cover shifts, hence this guy raking in 360k in OT.


I ain't mad, but i also dont think it shouldn't happen either.
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      11-07-2019, 08:38 PM   #17
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If you read the article its a not a firefighter specific thing

"Other departments also had workers collecting large overtime pay. One traffic officer received $174,348 in overtime, and a Building and Safety Department employee made $152,163."


Now if they used loop holes or whatever I have no issues with it as long as whatever they did was legal. Rather it go to a firefighter than some politician. Believe me if I could fuck the government out of $300k I would do so in a heart beat and sleep like a baby. That's a ridiculously insignificant amount compared to how bad the government is fucking us, especially those in CA.
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      11-07-2019, 08:42 PM   #18
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califnornia does need to find some sort of way to curb these fires though. it's getting out of hand. at least limit the amount of properties nearby these forest areas to reduce the damage.
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      11-07-2019, 08:45 PM   #19
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First of all, if he did the time (lol) then he deserves it.

With that being said 5,616 hours of overtime?!? I assume that's in addition to the regular 40 hours per week which is 2,080 (not taking into account vacations. What that means is, for that person to have accumulated 7,696 hours in a year, they would have to work 148 hours a week. This equates to 21 hours a day, for 365 days straight.

As an attorney, and many years of working remotely, I have billed quite a few years in excess of 3,000 hours (TOTAL including OT). The most I've ever worked in a year was around 3,200 which equates to 62 or so hours per week, every week for a year. The amount of sacrifice I had to make to do that is extreme. I basically took no days off in total, no vacations, no holidays, and my life consisted entirely of working, working out, and sleep. I'm a single guy who loves to work, so it was not a problem for me. I had quite a few people worried about me, but I shrugged it off and powered through. Keep in mind I did this REMOTELY, in other words no commutes, kitchen is 15 feet away, shower and bed are 10 feet away, I never have to leave the house.

So knowing what it takes to work 3,200 hours a year (REMOTELY from HOME), anybody who comes forward to tell me they're working not 4k, not 5k, not 6k, but over 7 THOUSAND hours in a year is a complete liar and fraud, and should be fired, forced to pay everything back, and have future wages garnished with interest until it's paid back.

I know for a fact how hard it is to go over 3,200 hours in a year, the only attorneys I know who billed more were in fact double and triple billers and fucking cheats. It's simply impossible to go much higher than 3k hours in a year let alone more than double that number ffs.

Just more fraud.
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      11-07-2019, 09:52 PM   #20
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I would venture to guess that hours claimed are not hours worked 1:1. In a previous union job everything was claimed in hours. OT was 1.5:1 and double OT (12+ hours) was 2:1, add to that hour penalty for 2nd meal.
14 hour work day for me would be claimed as 19.. make it a holiday or any hazard pay and would go up from there.. don't forget morning differential pay either..

No idea what their union is like or how their penalties work, but it's possible the hours claim alone means little
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      11-07-2019, 10:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
First of all, if he did the time (lol) then he deserves it.

With that being said 5,616 hours of overtime?!? I assume that's in addition to the regular 40 hours per week which is 2,080 (not taking into account vacations. What that means is, for that person to have accumulated 7,696 hours in a year, they would have to work 148 hours a week. This equates to 21 hours a day, for 365 days straight.

As an attorney, and many years of working remotely, I have billed quite a few years in excess of 3,000 hours (TOTAL including OT). The most I've ever worked in a year was around 3,200 which equates to 62 or so hours per week, every week for a year. The amount of sacrifice I had to make to do that is extreme. I basically took no days off in total, no vacations, no holidays, and my life consisted entirely of working, working out, and sleep. I'm a single guy who loves to work, so it was not a problem for me. I had quite a few people worried about me, but I shrugged it off and powered through. Keep in mind I did this REMOTELY, in other words no commutes, kitchen is 15 feet away, shower and bed are 10 feet away, I never have to leave the house.

So knowing what it takes to work 3,200 hours a year (REMOTELY from HOME), anybody who comes forward to tell me they're working not 4k, not 5k, not 6k, but over 7 THOUSAND hours in a year is a complete liar and fraud, and should be fired, forced to pay everything back, and have future wages garnished with interest until it's paid back.

I know for a fact how hard it is to go over 3,200 hours in a year, the only attorneys I know who billed more were in fact double and triple billers and fucking cheats. It's simply impossible to go much higher than 3k hours in a year let alone more than double that number ffs.

Just more fraud.
You're forgetting the types of shifts that fire fighters work and the fact that they, too, have kitchens and beds in the firehouses.

Typical shifts are 24 on/24 off, sometimes 24 on/48 off. For all we know this guy could've gotten rid of his house/apartment and basically moved into the firehouse, clocking in every minute while still having .84 of every Sunday off.

It'd be interesting to see stats on how much actual fire fighting time a fireman sees during a shift.
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      11-07-2019, 10:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
You're forgetting the types of shifts that fire fighters work and the fact that they, too, have kitchens and beds in the firehouses.

Typical shifts are 24 on/24 off, sometimes 24 on/48 off. For all we know this guy could've gotten rid of his house/apartment and basically moved into the firehouse, clocking in every minute while still having .84 of every Sunday off.

It'd be interesting to see stats on how much actual fire fighting time a fireman sees during a shift.
So he sleeps less than three hours a day? Does he eat? Does he take showers? Does he shave? Does he get a haircut? Does he go to the bathroom? inifinty

I'm not even going to debate this because it's clearly fraud. Nobody on this planet is working 7k hours a year.
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