Still want an EV?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Don't panic, we will see when we get there. Plus I wonder how much battery technology will improve over the next years. Also, hybrids might have a solution for most drivers.

I'm not panicked at all. Lol.

Yeah, wait till we get there. Battery tech will improve. Charging tech will improve. Same shit I've been reading for 20 years. The only tech change has been bigger batteries and marginal increase in energy density and about a 1/2 cut in battery production cost. Other than $150K Plaids, no EV even comes close to ICE in range and range recovery speed; and Plaids don't either as a matter of fact.

ICE hybrids. Nah, emissions standards will kill them too.

Come on 2035!!!! Lmaooooo.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Your Plaid cost $150K. My E90 cost $49.6K in 2023 dollars. And let's see what the range of your Plaid is with 420,000 miles on the clock.

wow! good to see the E90 going strong at 420K miles...I picked up a 2008 for my son last year with only 105K miles on her for $5k from a friend


but to be fair range is great, but so is not going to the gas station and paying $5 a gallon...I havent been to one in months cuz I just dont drive my gassers much at all anymore (don't even go to SC stations either with home charging) and a Model 3 Performance cost the same as a stripper 330i (after tax incentives) and would absolutely destroy one in performance on every level

btw, a Model S Plaid is a little over $100K these days, not $150K ....and this guy has over 300K on his Model 3 with only about 20% degradation with mostly using super chargers ...another guy has 100K miles with only 3% loss due to mostly home charging

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html


But if range is your top priority, then yes, get the ICE, but just about everything else like if you want to go fast instantly and never go to a gas station again, get the EV...

My guess, they won't even need a mandate by 2035 as most of the population will want EV over ICE vehicles anyway by then as they become cheaper and range starts getting to over 500 miles which is already starting to happen as bettery tech is just getting better every day.

You should embrace the fact that they are figuring out how to make cars so affordable.....because it will drive down the prices of ICE vehicles also, it's already happening as more and more new ICE vehicles are piling up at dealer lots.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

wow! good to see the E90 going strong at 420K miles...I picked up a 2008 for my son last year with only 105K miles on her for $5k from a friend


but to be fair range is great, but so is not going to the gas station and paying $5 a gallon...I havent been to one in months cuz I just dont drive my gassers much at all anymore (don't even go to SC stations either with home charging) and a Model 3 Performance cost the same as a stripper 330i (after tax incentives) and would absolutely destroy one in performance on every level

btw, a Model S Plaid is a little over $100K these days, not $150K ....and this guy has over 300K on his Model 3 with only about 20% degradation with mostly using super chargers ...another guy has 100K miles with only 3% loss due to mostly home charging

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html


But if range is your top priority, then yes, get the ICE, but just about everything else like if you want to go fast instantly and never go to a gas station again, get the EV...

My guess, they won't even need a mandate by 2035 as most of the population will want EV over ICE vehicles anyway by then as they become cheaper and range starts getting to over 500 miles which is already starting to happen as bettery tech is just getting better every day.

You should embrace the fact that they are figuring out how to make cars so affordable.....because it will drive down the prices of ICE vehicles also, it's already happening as more and more new ICE vehicles are piling up at dealer lots.

Thanks, my E90 has been a fantastic ownership experience.

So, after 17 years and 420,000 miles of service the E90 has lost zero percent of range. I've kept detailed records of every fuel fill up for all 420,000 miles and the lifetime average has stayed at 27.1 MPG. The car statistically gets no better nor worse fuel mileage now than it did in May 2006 when I bought it new. The 300,000-mile Model 3 has lost approximately 46 miles of range (an estimate based on 20% of 230 miles), which would have been a significant issue for my trip on Tuesday. Let's move my trip back to wintertime and 20% range degradation on top of a 25% range degradation caused by cabin and battery heating, the 20% battery life degradation becomes more significant. My ICE range and recharge rate in winter is unaffected by ambient temperature. Sure, AC use in the summer will cause about a 4% MPG hit, but that is materially insignificant since it has zero time impact on range recovery at the 5 minute fuel pump stop (BTW, Jeff Gordon's NASCAR race car could refuel in about 20 seconds - ). I would expect EV AC use has a similar 25% impact on range as well, but I'll admit I've not researched it.

And for the average auto owner mega-super fast 0 - 60 time is meaningless. If the car in front of you coming off a stop light can reach 60 in 6 seconds then the Model 3's time doesn't matter. If your stuck in traffic, same deal. My discussion about this trip example is for the typical use case, which ICE still excels at.

I hope your son has as great an ownership experience as I have had with my E90. The E90 has a lot of forum support over at E90 Post.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

wow! good to see the E90 going strong at 420K miles...I picked up a 2008 for my son last year with only 105K miles on her for $5k from a friend


but to be fair range is great, but so is not going to the gas station and paying $5 a gallon...I havent been to one in months cuz I just dont drive my gassers much at all anymore (don't even go to SC stations either with home charging) and a Model 3 Performance cost the same as a stripper 330i (after tax incentives) and would absolutely destroy one in performance on every level

btw, a Model S Plaid is a little over $100K these days, not $150K ....and this guy has over 300K on his Model 3 with only about 20% degradation with mostly using super chargers ...another guy has 100K miles with only 3% loss due to mostly home charging

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html


But if range is your top priority, then yes, get the ICE, but just about everything else like if you want to go fast instantly and never go to a gas station again, get the EV...

My guess, they won't even need a mandate by 2035 as most of the population will want EV over ICE vehicles anyway by then as they become cheaper and range starts getting to over 500 miles which is already starting to happen as bettery tech is just getting better every day.

You should embrace the fact that they are figuring out how to make cars so affordable.....because it will drive down the prices of ICE vehicles also, it's already happening as more and more new ICE vehicles are piling up at dealer lots.

Lmaooooo

Yup. This is what people aren’t realizing. Way to let the secret out lmaooo

[BGM-M3COMP]

Lmaooooo no they won’t.

Hopefully you’ll still be alive to witness it lmaoooooo

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Lmaooooo no they won’t.

Hopefully you’ll still be alive to witness it lmaoooooo

Yes they will, unless there are significant improvements in battery storage density and grid infrastructure.

There's no denying the amazing torque of electric motors which are ideal for towing heavy loads, but range is dramatically reduced when towing. How exactly is that going to work for commercial long range trucking let alone recreational towing(campers, boats, etc)? That is going to require a massive investment in the electrical grid to provide adequate and plentiful charging stations at all of the rural truck stops for long haul trucking.

Just because something is mandated by a set date doesn't mean it will be feasible that the technology and infrastructure will be ready by that time.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Thanks, my E90 has been a fantastic ownership experience.

So, after 17 years and 420,000 miles of service the E90 has lost zero percent of range. I've kept detailed records of every fuel fill up for all 420,000 miles and the lifetime average has stayed at 27.3 MPG. The car statistically gets no better nor worse fuel mileage now than it did in May 2006 when I bought it new. The 300,000-mile Model 3 has lost approximately 46 miles of range (an estmate based on 20% of 230 miles), which would have been a significant issue for my trip on Tuesday. Let's move my trip back to wintertime and 20% range degradation on top of a 25% range degradation caused by cabin and battery heating, the 20% battery life degradation becomes more significant. My ICE range and recharge rate in winter is unaffected by ambient temperature. Sure, AC use in the summer will cause about a 4% MPG hit, but that is materially insignificant since it has zero time impact on range recovery at the 5 minute fuel pump stop (BTW, Jeff Gordon's NASCAR race car could refuel in about 20 seconds - ). I would expect EV AC use has a similar 25% impact on range as well, but I'll admit I've not researched it.

And for the average auto owner mega-super fast 0 - 60 time is meaningless. If the car in front of you coming off a stop light can reach 60 in 6 seconds then the Model 3's time doesn't matter. If your stuck in traffic, same deal. My discussion about this trip example is for the typical use case, which ICE still excels at.

I hope your son has as great an ownership experience as I have had with my E90. The E90 has a lot of forum support over at E90 Post.

true, but your situation is an outlier as the average daily miles driven is about 35 miles, which is why EV's would make sense to most people for their driving habits...but like I said, they're not for everybody, but the good news is that ICE vehicles will still be around much longer than most of us will be alive...even if they stop making them in 2035, which I doubt will even happen....I could see where 10-15% of the cars will still be hybrids of some sort

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Yes they will, unless there are significant improvements in battery storage density and grid infrastructure.

There's no denying the amazing torque of electric motors which are ideal for towing heavy loads, but range is dramatically reduced when towing. How exactly is that going to work for commercial long range trucking let alone recreational towing(campers, boats, etc)? That is going to require a massive investment in the electrical grid to provide adequate and plentiful charging stations at all of the rural truck stops for long haul trucking.

Just because something is mandated by a set date doesn't mean it will be feasible that the technology and infrastructure will be ready by that time.

There are so many what ifs in the automotive industry that has proven many people wrong about their assessment.

Picture this, you’re not smarter than these people developing this technology. I’m not smarter and rest posting isn’t smarter.

They will advance this technology just like they have been doing the past fucking century.

We’re in 2023. The mandate is 2035. And there will be a used market for ice.

So why are people bitching for?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

There are so many what ifs in the automotive industry that has proven many people wrong about their assessment.

Picture this, you’re not smarter than these people developing this technology. I’m not smarter and rest posting isn’t smarter.

They will advance this technology just like they have been doing the past fucking century.

We’re in 2023. The mandate is 2035. And there will be a used market for ice.

So why are people bitching for?

Agree. It is nothing but fun to watch all of the tech advance and look forward to our future auto options.

[gonzo]

Auto expert (Toyota) concedes a lack of resources will plague and delay EV push for decades.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...ectric-vehicle

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Agree. It is nothing but fun to watch all of the tech advance and look forward to our future auto options.

I really can’t Wait for our future!

It’s also funny watching everyone here get mad at the reality, but they just give each other false hope that it won’t happen.

That’s why they don’t want us ev fans posting. Because we give these guys reality checks lmaooooooooo

[SoCal_NSX]

it is easily calculated by insurance companies, DMV's and other federal agencies by computing the average miles per year is 13.5K miles per year, which works out to about 35 miles a day... The reason EV's set their sites on about 300 miles range is to compete with gas vehicels and their full tank range....

even if that was doubled to 70 miles a day, it is still way below the 250 mile range most EV's have these days

I'm guessing 500 mile range EV's will be here in the next couple of years

https://www.caranddriver.com/auto-lo...ual%20mileages.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Obviously while the average works out to 35 miles a day, the mean and standard deviation play into the EV take rate, because the EV market share is not that big in the USA. Again because EV have to be forced on people by the Govenment is a clear indication someone at the Govenment believes the majority of the market doesn't want to own an electric car.

If EV was that great already at 10x the needed average daily mileage, the market would be buying EV like hotcakes and no forcing function would be necessary. Without the artificial forcing function, nearly none of the legacy manufacturers would be investing in the EV market. I'll definitely state the legacy manufacturers know their customers far better than the DOT/EPA/Executive Branch/Congress. BGM and others can ejaculate all they want about 2028, 2030, or 2035 and how great EV is going to be. But none can explain why the Govenment needs to force it.

It's as obvious as white paint on walls.

Hate to break it to you but the best selling car (non truck) in the US right now is the Model Y and the Model 3 is 5th on the list from a 10 year old car company that doesn't even advertise.....so yeah, they are selling like hot cakes....
Tesla with it's whopping 4 models to chose from is set to outsale BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023....btw, no government is forcing anything as of today....

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I have more gas cars than EV's and love them, but it's not hard to see and figure out why Tesla is currently outselling BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc...no need to get bent about it, it is what it is and facts are facts, no need to argue them unless you refuse to believe them

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Hate to break it to you but the best selling car (non truck) in the US right now is the Model Y and the Model 3 is 5th on the list from a 10 year old car company that doesn't even advertise.....so yeah, they are selling like hot cakes....
Tesla with it's whopping 4 models to chose from is set to outsale BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023....btw, no government is forcing anything as of today....

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I have more gas cars than EV's and love them, but it's not hard to see and figure out why Tesla is currently outselling BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc...no need to get bent about it, it is what it is and facts are facts, no need to argue them unless you refuse to believe them

I see the Y is the top selling car but I think there's more to the numbers than that. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-sales/

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I see the Y is the top selling car but I think there's more to the numbers than that. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-sales/

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

It is hard to deny Tesla has become a very successful car manufacturer. Just wait until they unveil a sub $30k EV and make profit on it(unlike legacy automakers).

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

So I have nothing against Tesla or any other manufacture for that matter. I just don't like the idea that the government is going to force the adaption of EV's given that they don't suit everyones needs/requirements.

So just to put it in perspective, 11,112,751 passenger vehicles sold in the US in 2022. Of that Teslas total sales are 536,069, so 4.8% of the market if my math is correct.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

So I have nothing against Tesla or any other manufacture for that matter. I just don't like the idea that the government is going to force the adaption of EV's given that they don't suit everyones needs/requirements.

So just to put it in perspective, 11,112,751 passenger vehicles sold in the US in 2022. Of that Teslas total sales are 536,069, so 4.8% of the market if my math is correct.

like i said, I don't think the government or manufacturing is ready to force them on anybody, but 2035 is 12 years away and a lot can change by then and most likely the gas cars will be for enthusiasts and EV's will probably rule the market for the masses by then anyways...

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

like i said, I don't think the government or manufacturing is ready to force them on anybody, but 2035 is 12 years away and a lot can change by then and most likely the gas cars will be for enthusiasts and EV's will probably rule the market for the masses by then anyways...

I have no issue with letting the market determine what the consumer wants. Unless EV's can overcome the challenges that they are currently faced with I think a lot of people won't buy them because they won't suit their needs, I can see EV's fitting the bill for most in the cities, but move out of the city and the needs change. Time will tell I guess.

[KRS_SN]

sure someone will moan about not having to 'step in a windswept forecourt ' or starting the day with 100% charge or my ev goes very fast in a straight line. Bunch of deluded fools.

[KRS_SN]

Btw we have Efthreeoh whose done 400 plus k in his car and I've done a miserly 80k plus miles on mine(f15x5 30d/35d) over nearly 10 years still got 500 plus mile range..seriously newly minted EV fanboys on leases have no clue how their cars will depreciate like a stone because everyone and their granny has the same frumpy thing that no-one wants to own one beyond its warranty period unlike ice.

[KRS_SN]

Now for a traditional manufacturer who is going to do some traditional stuff.https://youtu.be/9EF2inScuaw